Collings Eastside Jazz

[Prossi@cozen.com]

I would like to install TI's on this instrument. I seem to recall reading that the TI's are problematic on the Jazz as the colorful windings on the TI's interfere with installation. Any thoughts?

[coolvinny]

I have a 2016 model which I've only owned for about 6 months. I also read all that stuff about the TI's. So far I have mine strung up with TI Bebop (roundwounds, not Swing flat) in a 13 set but with a heavier 0.14 top E string. No issues, and I haven't even taken the guitar to a tech for a set up since putting on these heavy strings...it just plays fine as is. The TI Swing's may (I'm not sure, but may) have thicker windings.

[backdrifter]

I owned an Eastside Deluxe (not Jazz) - wonderful instruments!

The issue is the size of the holes drilled through the Ebony tailpiece. Some larger strings will struggle to fit through them. I’ve heard of some people successfully drilling them out, but it is such a small area that I wouldn’t have been comfortable trying it.

[Prossi@cozen.com]

Coolvinny and backdrifter,
Thanks guys. So its the size of the string(s) rather than something unusual with TI? The TI have a decorative colored thread around the end of the string. I thought it was related to this? I never go anywhere near any guitars with any tools. Period.

[coolvinny]

Coolvinny and backdrifter,
Thanks guys. So its the size of the string(s) rather than something unusual with TI? The TI have a decorative colored thread around the end of the string. I thought it was related to this? I never go anywhere near any guitars with any tools. Period.

I don't know. I can just tell you that I bought my Eastside Jazz brand new from a dealer, it came with 10's or 11's, I moved up to a TI Bebop set of 13's and recently put a 0.14 on there for a high E (mostly because I angled the treble side of the CC pickup down to lower the hot B and I wanted to get a bit of the high E's volume back), and have not visited a tech or used any tools. I just strung her up without any issues.

But it's possible that the TI Swing set have larger "wraps" than the Bebop's. Maybe somebody else here can check that and report back. I could do so next time I change my strings...which will likely be in like a year lol.

[backdrifter]

Yes, I believe it’s the overall diameter back by the balls. The colorful windings may play a part in that (I have used TI’s, but never did on my Eastside).

I’d recommend emailing Collings. Their customer service email is on their website. You’ll likely hear back from Mark Althans within the day, and you couldn’t ask for a finer or more knowledgeable gentleman. If you have a specific type/size of string that you’re looking at, he’ll likely know off-the-bat if they’ll fit.

Good luck!

[Prossi@cozen.com]

Thanks again. I did email Collings and Thomastik. Ill let you know if I hear anything.

[ptchristopher3]

[...]I’ve heard of some people successfully drilling them out, but it is such a small area that I wouldn’t have been comfortable trying it.[...]

I am sure you will get the advice and help needed to sort this out.

In the meantime, really never “drill out” an existing hole to a larger size unless you are very certain of what you are doing, and the potential troubles that can arise doing exactly this.

There are small and very sharp reamers that are far better at enlarging a hole such as the one in question, IF that is what the collective expert input from Collings and T-I recommend in the end.

But really, pretty much never enlarge an existing hole with a larger diameter drill bit - in my opinion and experience, and per the sometimes unforgiving principle of how drill bits work.

Looking forward to hearing the solution to this, and to the the resulting sound on this great guitar.

[Jabberwocky]

...it’s the overall diameter back by the balls...

[Prossi@cozen.com]

Thanks. The thought of drilling anything on this incredible instrument gives me the shivers. Not long ago I bought a wonderful Martin guitar and the end pin was not installed. Some suggested the same routine, drill the hole out a bit. I took it to the luthier who used a hand reamer and fit it perfectly and safely.

[Prossi@cozen.com]

So Mark Althans from Collings says that using Thomastik flat wounds with silk wrapping will require enlarging the hole size in the tailpiece. An alternative is using standard round 12's or flat wound 11's with a wound G. When the wraps at the ball end get thicker the fit might get too snug. They are concerned that if they make the holes bigger the strings might rattle. I wonder if removing the ball end wrap would help?

[neatomic]

yeah it's the red silk of the thomastiks that make it tough to go thru some tailpieces..the holes can be gently hand filed out ever so slightly..or you could try scraping some of the silk off the string with an x-acto...just a tiny bit of silk removed often allows it to fit


cheers

[coolvinny]

Have you considered TI Bebop's? I switched to those for my main guitars about 1 or 2 years ago after years of using TI Swing flats (I still have the TI Swing on guitar I rarely play). This might give you an excuse to try them and at least have a usable guitar until you decide how best to prepare it for the TI Swing set. Give the Bebop's about 5 hours of play time to mellow out if you find them too bright at first, and then you might like them. The B and high E are the same as on the Swing set anyway.

[ptchristopher3]

Thanks. The thought of drilling anything on this incredible instrument gives me the shivers. Not long ago I bought a wonderful Martin guitar and the end pin was not installed. Some suggested the same routine, drill the hole out a bit. I took it to the luthier who used a hand reamer and fit it perfectly and safely.

Indeed, a properly sized and tapered reamer is the way to go.

Sure, holes are enlarged with drill bits (HSS, and other types) every day. But the occasional disaster is impressive and happens more quickly than you might think.

Actually, even a reamer needs to be used carefully on a flat-top bridge peg hole since if you tilt a little you can grab the string slot in an unfortunate way.

Lookijng forward to news of your eventual solution.

[backdrifter]

Gents,

Just to clarify - I was not endorsing using a drill bit to enlarge the holes. I used the term “drilling out”, but perhaps that was the wrong term. I understand how a drill bit bites and can cause catastrophe. I consider myself very handy, and I would never have considered trying this myself, with a drill bit or any other tool. I have owned an Eastside and seen that tailpiece in person. It is MUCH thinner than it looks, and there is not much room to enlarge a hole at all. I certainly would not recommend anyone with less tha professional-level wood working skills give it a shot.

[backdrifter]

Well, crap. I walked right into that one, didn’t I?

[ptchristopher3]

Gents,

Just to clarify - I was not endorsing using a drill bit to enlarge the holes. I used the term “drilling out”, but perhaps that was the wrong term. I understand how a drill bit bites and can cause catastrophe. I consider myself very handy, and I would never have considered trying this myself, with a drill bit or any other tool. I have owned an Eastside and seen that tailpiece in person. It is MUCH thinner than it looks, and there is not much room to enlarge a hole at all. I certainly would not recommend anyone with less tha professional-level wood working skills give it a shot.

Hi B’Drfter,

Definitely not shitting on your comments here at all. Just noting the same thing that you mention. The unexpected (and I suppose, epicyclic) action of the bit as it enlarges the hole can swallow what used to be valued wood as it goes on its merry, if potentially violent, way.

We are all saying the same sort of thing here.

Chris

[Jabberwocky]

A beautiful ebony fluted tailpiece. In a rare bit of oversight from the Collings Guitar Co. they have not adequately examined the range of strings popular amongst the users of such guitars. The standard strings for Collings Guitars archtops remain the D'Addario 12.52; their tailpieces are sized for them. The holes are spaced very closely together so I would discourage a homebrew attempt to enlarge them.

This calls for a slight kludge of candle-waxing and scraping off the silk-ends of the T-Is.

But needs must; the happy coincidence of ingenuity and tomfoolery builds societies, so herewith: Small Diamond Bead Reamer – Micro-Tools . The price of foolhardy is $1.95 against which the Collings Eastside Jazz looks rather priceless.

Looky, it even comes in Large Large Diamond Reamer – Micro-Tools .

Good luck whatever you decide. Easy does it. Measure thrice, ream once.

[sgosnell]

Interesting reamer. In one place it says made in the USA, in another it says CN, or China. I would tend to believe the latter, but one never knows.

[Prossi@cozen.com]

The other problem this creates is that if the tailpiece is reamed strings smaller than the ti's might rattle and not fit properly. Perhaps a spare tailpiece is necessary. Might be easier to stick with the round wounds.

[ESCC]

No reason you can't use flats. Do what Rich Severson does, buy a set of Chrome 10s or 11s and bump up the e to a 12 or 13, and the b to a 16 or 17, it works for him and he has a great sound.

[PB+J]

I'm gonna say using a drill bit that's just slightly larger than the existing hole is unlikely to do any harm, but if you're worried about it get a tooth pick and wrap some sand paper around it, or just roll some sandpaper into a cylinder and have at it. You aren't going to have to take much off.

It's sort of comical that Collings would make this mistake, but geez enlarge the hole slightly. Use the strings you like!

If it causes other strings to rattle--which seems incredibly unlikely to me--then wrap the other string in a bit of masking tape.

[sgosnell]

I've used drill bits to enlarge holes in the top of a guitar. It's a thinline, 1.75" at the rims, and my reamer hit the back well before I could get the holes large enough. I had bought new pots without measuring, and their shafts were bigger than the existing holes. Rather than try to return the pots and order new ones, I just put the bigger ones into it. I started with a bit barely larger than the existing hole, and used progressively larger bits until the hole was the right size. I never used a drill, not even a hand drill, just my hands on the bits. It took longer than it would have with a proper reamer, but not more than a few minutes. I would never think of doing that with anything that multiplied the force, like a hand drill, and certainly never an electric drill. But the proper bits, turned both ways slowly by finger pressure gets the job done, and as neatly as a reamer. You just have to go slowly with a good selection of bits. It's not my preferred method, but in a pinch it works.

[Prossi@cozen.com]

Just to close the loop...Mr. Heinz Kovacs of Thomastik says that they do not recommend removing the silk as the string would probably get damaged.