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Anyone have direct experience with or knowledge of Gibson L5s from the 1946-1949 period? They featured Braz rosewood boards and P90s.
I purchased one, but couldn't play it first.
Mostly wondering about the rosewood/ebony difference on this particular guitar as well as acoustic properties compared to other L5 eras/configurations.
It weighs 7.3 lbs!! That's good.
Thanks in advance
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09-29-2018 05:35 PM
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I think the P90 equipped L5 came out in 1951?
First called L-5sec then one year later L-5ces.
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Just for discussion sake let's say it's like this one.
- 1948
- Rosewood board
- Alnico pickups
Bonhams : A 1948 Gibson L-5P, Serial No. A2597
It states the guitar was likely built as an acoustic and later converted, just like mine.
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That is one PURTY GUITAR!
Allow me to uncontain my enthusiasm since I've got a '39 L5P later updated with electronics (CC in the neck, P90 in the bridge).
If Slow Hand used one it must sound good.
Nice... if you haven't pulled the trigger yet good luck on the transaction. Keep us posted (pant, pant !!).
Big
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I have a 1947 blonde L-5, non-cutaway acoustic. However, it has an ebony board and a BRW bridge/saddle.
I'd characterize it as bright and loud, a real rhythm machine. It's not a delicate, full range sound like modern archtops, or even X-braced late 30's Advanced models or 16" originals. It can be finessed for more of a sweet sound, but that's not its natural voice. I do string it with 12s and favor a fairly low action.
Mine weighs 6 lbs and a few ounces.
if yours is a cutaway with pickups, of course, this data point is not that relevant.
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Is that 25.5 scale length?
Could you please estimate the headstock angle?
I'm interested in the historical perspective on the development of the archtop guitar and the design decisions they made.
I'm of the impression that 25.5 scale Gibsons have a 14 degree headstock, like Epiphones of the era. Could someone please verify this? Maybe dependent on year model?
The iconic '50s designs (Les Paul Standard, ES-335 etc) are all 24.75 with 17 degree headstock, but did the L-5 always have a 17 degree headstock? (They changed the scale length and many other parameters, so the headstock angle may have changed as well.)
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Sorry, I have no idea about the headstock angle.
The original 16" L-5 scale length was 24.75", which was retained when the first Advanced (17") models were introduced in 1935. In 1938, the scale length was extended to 25.5" and in 1939 the top became parallel braced. That's also the year when the L-5P (cutaway) was introduced. Big changes in 1939.
Every L-5 since, barring special orders, has been 25.5".
There's some more detail about these gradual changes here on the excellent pre-war L-5 site.
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In the years after the war, ebony was scarce so Gibson switched to rosewood for a while.
Epiphone (the original company) by the way, with few exceptions, never put ebony boards on their archtops as they were convinced that rosewood was the better tonewood anyways
I ve had several L-5’s from that period with the rose boards and think they are usually well built great sounding and particularly loud guitars
If it has been modded with P90 pickups my advice would be just for security to have a luthier check the inside to see if the braces are still okay, to avoid cracking or sagging of the top.
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Mike. I don't think you need to worry about containing guitar enthusiasm. I get the feeling you're safe here
Roger. Thanks for the thoughts. I've seen the video of the L5 you speak of, as well as others of yours. I've always been thankful that you make them. It's sometimes difficult to find straight forward, unobstructed sound samples of many of these guitars.
fws6. With you having owned several L5s from this period it's very encouraging to hear you say they are great sounding and particularly loud. I was a bit put off by the rosewood as opposed to ebony thing, but not enough to not reserve the guitar. As for the pickups, I'll have to wait and see. Great advice on the braces.
I'll try to post a pic or two of what the seller provided.
Thanks
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Here are a few shots!
Bwahahahaha!
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Thanks for doing that Stephen. Much appreciated.
I see you're a neck/backside/headstock man
Can you say that on the internet?
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I'm staying away from the rest of it.
I'll give you the pleasure of exploding some heads around here.
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OK, thanks for the info. Maybe you could provide a picture of the headstock angle of your guitar?
Originally Posted by rpguitar
Something like this:
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Hammertone, that's beautiful!
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All the ones I've had from that era were loud and punchy, but not necessarily the sweetest tone.
I believe the switch from 17 degree to 14 around '66
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Yes and they went back to 17 degrees post Norlin for the entire product line up with a few exceptions, like the Les Paul Custom. -But did they keep 14 degrees for the L-5? Originally Posted by wintermoon
There were lots of design changes during the Norlin era. Some changes were made to accommodate process improvement and automation at the new Nashville production facility. Some changes were made to cut material cost (which actually was reflected on the end customer price tag sometimes) and some changes were product improvements, the way they saw it at the time. Furthermore, it's entirely possible that a design can be better and less expensive at the same time....for everyone but the traditionalist. "They don't make 'em the way they used to"... (they never did)
Let's just assume for a minute that the headstock angle is the result of a conscious decision to optimize tone and playability, but that we leave durability, maintainability, tradition and cost out of the equation. If different manufacturers arrive at different conclusions it's not to say headstock angle doesn't matter. Because a guitar is the sum of its parts; set neck or bolt on, Trapeze tailpiece or stop bar, 25.5 or 24.75 scale, neck angle etc.
-Was Gibson guitars pre-Norlin always 17 degrees? Maybe they were just eyeballed at the band saw? Maybe they just measured a bunch of old Bursts and concluded that the average appeared to be around 17 degrees, to get a firm target to shoot at when reputation was to be restored post Norlin?
-But what about the old archtops and in particular the 25.5 scale L-5 ? (and why is it so hard to find this information?)
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I would guess because this construction detail doesn't seem particularly relevant to most players, even to fairly obsessive players. I don't mean at all to be argumentative. Even neck profile, an important physical factor for playability, isn't routinely measured; it's only estimated and generalized among players (i.e. fat 50s, slim 60s, etc.). Originally Posted by JCat
I will try to find my protractor and measure my Gibsons. I have two from 1947 and one from 1975 (Norlin) in my stable. Actually, I just checked visually and the '47 L-5 headstock is noticeably more tilted back than the '75 L-5. So I'm going to bet that they conform to expectations in this case (17º vs. 14º).
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Thanks, much appreciated. Originally Posted by rpguitar
The angle is a design decision and I'm interested in guitar design. It's a hobby and knowledge good to have when I set up and maintain my guitars. (I think things like this have far greater impact than the origin of the fretboard wood and other details people like to obsess about.)
The L-5 is a rare bird around where I live. I've had the opportunity to play a new built Wes some time ago. It played like a charm.
I mostly play 24.75 scale guitars, but I do own a 25.5 scale Century with a 14 degree headstock that plays amazingly smooth also with heavy strings.
The headstock angle is important enough for Gibson to mention it in the specs for the majority of their products (but not the L-5) and for companies like PRS and Heritage to promote headstock angle as an incentive for their products.
Anyway, thanks for your assistance.
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I have a 1949 L5-P. I had the floating pup added when I bought it in the 1980's. The fretboard sure looks like ebony, and the bridge rosewood.
How lively is the top? It's a feedback MACHINE! You really have to be careful not to stand anywhere in front of your amp.
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BDLH,
Are you sure that's a '49?
Never seen a '49 w/ slanted script logo and ebony board.
Transition to slanted around '48 and usually by '49 it's modern logo rosewood board.
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I dated it by the serial number on the label. I'll double check it tonight. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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That is a gorgeous L5C. The sunburst is beautiful and it’s from a really good period. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Keith
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FWIW, the L5-C from that period, with the appropriate DeArmond added, is mighty tough to beat for jazz trio work.
If you have to play louder, oh well, get the L-5 with the P90s. BOOM!
Now, I love the modern L-5CES, but there is a sweet spot with those post-war Gibsons...IMO. They are beautiful and they just exude small club, bebop energy.
Was there ever a more beautiful jazz guitar than the L5-C?
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Thanks! What you can't see is that it is covered with small dings. it's hard to wield a big jazz box without bumping into things. Originally Posted by floatingpickup
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Originally Posted by Greentone
Maybe the prewar L-5P w/script logo and catalin button Klusons like Larry Wexer currently has on his website.
Essentially the same guitar though.
Have to say the transitional diagonal script logo in '48 is the coolest logo Gibson ever used imo.
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