Archtop modifications?

**Bosko** · 07-13-2018, 04:48 PM

I've been thinking about making some changes to my arch top to enhance the versatility of the guitar with the goal of simply using it more in different playing situations. Originally bought for straight ahead jazz, I now incorporate the jazz skills I have acquired over the years into other styles. It's a very nice guitar so I don't want to do too much to it to compromise the original build. On the other hand, I'm probably not going to sell it and I would like to play it more.

The guitar - A Painter P-175, basically a custom built 2 1/2" width ES 175 with a single pickup.

Ideas -

1. Ditch the TI flat wounds (12's) and go with a lighter gauge round wound string. The flat wounds bring out the acoustic sound of this guitar but I'm fine with a brighter, more electric sound with easier bending, hammer-ons/offs etc. (This is a no-brainer)

2. Change to a TOM style bridge (currently an all wood floating bridge). From what I have read, there won't be a big change tone wise (maybe a little brighter, and more sustain?). This would be more for convenience and playability - better intonation while incorporating bigger bends and more aggressive playing, maybe some drop-D or other alternative tunings.

I'm not sure about the details on this - Stewmac TOM, Nashville style? Do I need a floating block underneath the top? Don't worry, I won't be doing the work.

3. Adding a 2nd pickup - more tonal options, sounds like it might be labor intensive, maybe pretty expensive for the added tone shaping.

4. F-hole or sound hole treatment of some kind for louder playing situations (maybe just some painter tape over the f-holes or is there something a little classier or more effective??). I don't want it too effective though ):

5. (OK, don't go crazy, this is just a brainstorming thread) Add a Bixby vibrato bar/tailpiece. Probably lots of cons for this idea but they are so damn fun.

Let me know what you think and if you have had any experience with any of these mods (except the string change).

Thanks,

**blille** · 07-13-2018, 05:11 PM

I think you should get yourself a used MIM Tele or Strat for $350 and call it a day

Less work, not much more money and you'll have a perfect tool for each kind of music as opposed to a "master of none".

Just IMHO. YMMV etc.

**339 in june** · 07-13-2018, 05:31 PM

Do whatever you want to your guitar, but please, trade it with my Epiphone Broadway before !

**Bosko** · 07-13-2018, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by blille

I think you should get yourself a used MIM Tele or Strat for $350 and call it a day

Less work, not much more money and you'll have a perfect tool for each kind of music as opposed to a "master of none".

Just IMHO. YMMV etc.

I have a nice custom Strat that I use for mostly for everything these days. I just kind of hate to sell the arch top, I've had it for 8 years now, but it's not getting played much. It's like an old friend that has been neglected lately.

**Bosko** · 07-13-2018, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by 339 in june

Do whatever you want to your guitar, but please, trade it with my Epiphone Broadway before !

I think I may be just reluctant to letting the guitar go and that if I look at it realistically, it's just not ever going to be my every day #1 again.

**blille** · 07-13-2018, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Bosko

I have a nice custom Strat that I use for mostly for everything these days. I just kind of hate to sell the arch top, I've had it for 8 years now, but it's not getting played much. It's like an old friend that has been neglected lately.

Ok, sorry I thought you used it regularly for jazz. I have a Casino like guitar that I tried to make work for both rock and jazz and it didn't work

I still would consider selling. BUT. If you've bonded with the guitar and wat to keep it for personal reasons, I would first swap strings to roundwounds, very cheap and significant change IME.

Next I would think of the pickup. Frankly without a bridge pickup it's hard to play any style but jazz.

I would definitely avoid the Bigsby for tuning and restringing reasons but thats just me.

**Bosko** · 07-13-2018, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by blille

Ok, sorry I thought you used it regularly for jazz. I have a Casino like guitar that I tried to make work for both rock and jazz and it didn't work

I still would consider selling. BUT. If you've bonded with the guitar and wat to keep it for personal reasons, I would first swap strings to roundwounds, very cheap and significant change IME.

Next I would think of the pickup. Frankly without a bridge pickup it's hard to play any style but jazz.

I would definitely avoid the Bigsby for tuning and restringing reasons but thats just me.

Ya, I don't think I would actually add a Bixby.

**sgosnell** · 07-13-2018, 09:22 PM

Whatever a Bixby might be... No need for a block or anything else for just changing to a TOM. It won't help at all for bends or playability, but if intonation is a real issue with you, it's a cheap and reversible downgrade. I wouldn't consider a second pickup. That will require lots of extra holes in the top - pickup, selector switch, and two pots if you use the traditional configuration, although you can wire it with only one tone and volume. But as said, it's your guitar. For the soundhole, Doug's Plugs are pretty standard, but DIY plugs are certainly possible. Some people make them from flip-flops. Tape is also a possibility. I can't really make a recommendation, since I've never seen the need for anything in the f holes.

**whiskey02** · 07-13-2018, 10:31 PM

1) Try different strings, that's not crazy.
2)TOM is reasonable
3) Crazy, don't do it.
4)Worse than Crazy, dumb, really bad idea.
5) See #3

best move is
6) Good quality import solid body < $500.

**Bosko** · 07-13-2018, 10:41 PM

OK, thanks for the feedback.

Pretty much what i expected. I have a nice solid body guitar that does pretty much everything I want now already. Probably just time to move on with the hollow body.

**D.G.** · 07-13-2018, 11:57 PM

What I would do:

Roundwound 11's, plain 3rd.
Tuneomatic bridge for the plain 3rd.
Fralin -5% HB size p90 - alternately Duncan pRails with the triple-shot switches

I doubt if I'd bother plugging the fholes, but if feedback was too much a problem, I'd try some Doug's Plugs.

After that, everything else is in the playing.

**oldane** · 07-14-2018, 05:21 AM

As I write this, I'm sitting watching the Painter P-350 Tom made for me.

Tom only made guitars for a short span of years and there are not many of them out there (likely less than 50?). They are hand made - including the plywood they are made of - and Tom specifically made them with jazz playing in mind.

Don't butcher this one. Anything other than new strings, a different PU (in the existing mount) and a TOM would be a no go for me. Sell it off to finance something more directed to your present needs - but keep this one original.

**Bosko** · 07-14-2018, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by D.G.

What I would do:

Roundwound 11's, plain 3rd.
Tuneomatic bridge for the plain 3rd.
Fralin -5% HB size p90 - alternately Duncan pRails with the triple-shot switches

I doubt if I'd bother plugging the fholes, but if feedback was too much a problem, I'd try some Doug's Plugs.

After that, everything else is in the playing.

I have Fralin's noiseless version P-90 in the guitar now and like it a lot.

**Bosko** · 07-14-2018, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by oldane

As I write this, I'm sitting watching the Painter P-350 Tom made for me.

Tom only made guitars for a short span of years and there are not many of them out there (likely less than 50?). They are hand made - including the plywood they are made of - and Tom specifically made them with jazz playing in mind.

Don't butcher this one. Anything other than new strings, a different PU (in the existing mount) and a TOM would be a no go for me. Sell it off to finance something more directed to your present needs - but keep this one original.

I don't need to sell the guitar to finance another guitar. It's just somewhat annoying that it's not getting played much anymore.

TH · 07-14-2018, 09:35 AM

With the exception of adding another pickup, which would be retrofitting a design to change the integrity of the instrument in a physical way, I think an instrument is an evolutionary relationship. If there are wonderful things that inspire you, it should be changable. This is between you, the instrument and the music, and not anyone else's ideas of what is proper.
That being said, there's no telling what you'll regret, so don't do unreversible things if you can avoid that.
David

**Bosko** · 07-14-2018, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

With the exception of adding another pickup, which would be retrofitting a design to change the integrity of the instrument in a physical way, I think an instrument is an evolutionary relationship. If there are wonderful things that inspire you, it should be changable. This is between you, the instrument and the music, and not anyone else's ideas of what is proper.
That being said, there's no telling what you'll regret, so don't do unreversible things if you can avoid that.
David

I pretty much totally agree with you David.

**Hammertone** · 07-14-2018, 11:10 AM

All of the mods you mentioned are easy and reversible except for adding a second pickup. Go nuts.

If reallt want a bridge pickup and, are good with tools and with measuring, and are good with simple electronics and soldering, installing a bridge pickup is very easy. Before doing that, it's worth checking with Tom Painter (he's a member here) to ensure that you won't cut through the two bass bars that support the top plate of the guitar. Since the Painter is not worth a lot of money and will probably never be worth much, a properly done conversion will have no effect on any future resale value.