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Hello everyone,
I am a guitar player, mostly into jazz, i am considering buying a "big" amp this year.
My options are :
1 Roland Jazz chorus 120
2 Boss katana artist
3 Roland blues cube artist
4 Fender hot rod deluxe (40 watt)
With this you probably have figured out that the clean tone is what matters the most for me.
I think the Boss katana is a great option among the four since I can create presets and profile that might mimic/copy the sound of either the JC-120 or the Fender clean tone. My concern is that i haven't found any review or video of someone trying this profiles and comparing with the real thing.
I wouldn't say the price is a limitation... I am not rich or anything but I would take this as an investment for the long run. Regarding the JC-120... I love it but I am concerned of getting into a not very versatile amp.
Regarding the Roland blues cube artist i have no idea how good is the clean.
Some pros i like of the different amps:
1- JC-120... Super good clean, great chorus, vibrato and reverb.
2- Boss katana artist... great speaker, super versatile, light weight (+ all boss effects and cheaper price)
3- Roland blues cube artist good reverb and tremolo, light weight and mimics valve sound without breaking
4- Fender hot rod deluxe... the most versatile among four i think, real valve sound and great reverb, light weight for a valve of 40 watt.
Some cons:
1- JC-120... not so versatile and really heavy...
2- Boss katana artist... i dont know how good are the profile imitations, it is all digital
3- Roland blues cube artist ... it pisses me quite a lot that the tone capsule are super expensive + I think it is not very cheap for a transistor amp
4- Fender hot rod deluxe... I am not into valves and all the cares involved but it is a beautiful sound and super versatile amp.
To finish i have to say that i have a decent set of pedals with chorus, delay, reverb, overdrive and distortion.
What i look for in an amp is to complement the pedal set.
And i wish the amp to be:
1 portable with a decent volume for gigs (small/medium)
2 sturdy
3 with loop effects
4 with a decent reverb
5 another built in effect is desirable (chorus/tremolo/vibrato) but not compulsory.
thanks for sharing your time and opinions/experience
Nick wolf
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06-20-2018 04:58 AM
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I have the Katana 100 which I used at a solo gig the day I bought it (had a good try out at the store though). I just used the basic clean preset it came with and really liked the sound I had.
I got rebooked at that venue - and I know at least one of the owners really liked my electric guitar work that night. I played both electric and acoustic (although didn’t put the acoustic through the amp that night; just ran the acoustic through the PA. I want to try my acoustic with the acoustic preset on the amp. )
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I like my Boss Katana 100 a lot. I lplay in a big band, not necessarily jazz. Loud and clean with a touch of reverb does it for me. You might want to look into one of these light(er) weight Fender George Benson models for real valve Fender and less weight. I played once over such and was impressed by the warm sound. I do not know if they can be bought new, though.
If not the Katana, my 2nd choice would be the hotrod out of your list. Tubes are more vulnerable as you know.
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Thanks for sharing your experience.
To be honest i have never tried one of the George Benson hot rod... but i didn't hear nice things about them.
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Hey Nick,
Welcome to the Forum!
For "small to medium" gigs, I'm not sure why you need a "big" amp? What are you using now for these gigs, and what doesn't work? Do you have a loud drummer who can't play quietly?? Also, since you like using pedals, I'm not sure why effects in the amp are even necessary -- why not get a simple, clean amp, and then use your pedals?
Where are you located (since some amps are easier/tougher to find in some countries)? What about Henriksen, Mambo, etc. or other "jazz" amps?
[BTW, the JC-120 was my first "jazz" amp, and I'm a "hater" of it now! So I'd say, "Anything but a 120!"]
Happy hunting!
Marc
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Originally Posted by nick_wolf
As good as it gets, if you ask me.
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Nick wolf Originally Posted by marcwhy
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The default Clean preamp on the Katana is a Roland JC120. Since Roland and Boss are the same company I assume they nailed the sound.
The aspect of the Kat I love is it’s 0.5watt bedroom mode. Late at night with both bedroom and music room doors closed and the wife can’t hear me. Don’t think any of the others offer that.
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Definitely check out the Blues Cube, there's also a "stage" model and a head (both more wattage). I think that you can ignore the capsule-thing if you're primarily after a clean tone. The overdriven tones are good, IMO, at least as usable as the ones on the Fender HotRods (I think they're actually better in the Blues Cube), and then there are pedals.
The only thing I didn't like is the hiss, it's not more than normal and isn't of any concern when playing, I just seem to like tube-hiss more than solid-state-hiss, lol. Maybe I should do a blindfold hiss-test...
I recently played the Stage-Model at a Store and really loved it. For gigs with drummers you should probably consider the Artist model or the head. Good luck!
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Fender hot rod deluxe is loud but doesn't have a lot of headroom. If you're looking to get a clean amp, a lot of the power (and weight
) it has to offer won't be usable.
Any reason not considering Fender Deluxe Reverb?
Also I tried Katana at a guitar store once, my impression was that it wasn't in the same league as a Jazz Chorus or a Henriksen or a Fender Blackface. I mean the latter group are as good as professional amps get. Katana's have design trade offs. They are cheaper, lighter and have more sonic possibilities and all but ...Last edited by Tal_175; 06-21-2018 at 10:29 AM.
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+1 on Deluxe Reverb suggestion. Also do you think a Princeton is too small?
Why not broaden your search? There are tons of great amps out there
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I've played the HRD and JC120.
The HRD was one of the best sounding amps I ever played, but I was in a relatively quiet group.
I have read that it isn't so clean when played loud.
the 120 is loud and clean, maybe to a fault.
If your criteria is best sound and ignore everything else, I still have to ask what sound do you like and at what volume.
I'd choose the HRD, but I don't like playing very loud. If I had to play really loud for some reason and I couldn't just quit the group, -- well, I can't imagine it.
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From the 4 you are considering i would buy the Fender hot rod deluxe. Good quality, simple, versatile tube sound that can support any style of music. It is the second best selling fender tube amp after the blues junior. I think it is important to spend some time with a good tube amp, there is a reason they are used as a standard for everything else.
And later, if you need a backup, or an alternative for gigs where portability calls for a small amp, you buy a solid state amp used, lots of giggable choices for less than 200$
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I have extensive gigging experience with most of the amps you are considering. For most venues, my strong recommendation is the Fender ‘65 Deluxe Reverb reissue. Hands down, it’s the best, most versatile, tone machine amp I have found. I have owned many vintages both original and reissues and, with a good speaker, they all sound amazing for any style from country to rock to jazz. It’s the amp that earns me more compliments than any other and, frankly, helps me play my best.
After gigging with a Jazz Chorus for 4 years, I was offered a great deal from a friend on his ‘64 Deluxe Reverb. I thought it would be a nice backup amp so I bought it and used it on the next gig. It blew me away. It became my main gigging amp and I bough two more—a ‘65 and a ‘67. I sold the Jazz Chorus shortly thereafter and have never looked back. More recently I acquired a pair of Katanas and they do the clean Jazz Chorus tone really well. But the ‘65 Deluxe Reverb reissue is well worth the higher price tag ($1,000 to $1,100). You can even get a brand new hand-wired eyelet board version (called the ‘64 Custom Deluxe Reverb) for about $2,500. Of course, original ‘63 to ‘67 models can be found for a bit more.
If it were me, I’d get the basic ‘65 reissue. They are truly lifetime amps. WAY better than the Hotrod Deluxe. I have gigged with both the HRD and the Benson version HRD and, while they are also very good amps, the ‘65 Deluxe Reverb is better. You can get close to that sound with a even smaller package in the ‘65 Princeton Reverb reissue as well—it’s also an amazing amp for jazz.
That’s my 2 cents. While any of the amps you list would work fine, my personal recommendation is the ‘65 Deluxe Reverb.
Roli
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I don’t understand a lot of this. I understand that the HRD has little clean headroom, but certainly the DRRI can’t have more, can it?
Can a Princeton (15 Watts) “out-headroom” the more powerful HRD (40 Watts) and DRRI (22 Watts)?
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Sweetwater is selling a special edition Princeton with a 12” speaker. If I were looking for an amp right now, I’d look long and hard at that one.
Headroom can be achieved (or not) in many ways, and power output alone is not a reliable indication. The preamp (which has no effect on power output) can be voiced to be clean or less so. You can also influence it by your tube choices. Higher output amps will typically be much louder before they begin to produce power amp distortion - but again you can influence this by, for example, setting the bias differently (don’t worry if you don’t know what it means).
Your speaker also plays a role. The speaker may have early or late breakup, it has a power rating, it has a sensitivity. For clean tone you would choose a late-breakup, highly sensitive (>100dB/W/m) speaker with a max power rating several times (more than 2x) of the Max output of your amp. Classic examples of this are the EVM12L or JBL K120. If I were looking for a new design for this, I would look at speakers designed for pedal steel by Eminence or Telonics. For an eye-opening experience, run a Champ through a 412 cabinet.
Finally, a 15-Watt amp like the Princeton is still very loud. To double the acoustic volume, you need to increase the output by 10. So all things being equal (speaker, circuit ...) a 100W amp will be twice as loud as a 10 watt amp. My point is that a 15-watt amp like the Princeton is plenty loud, and you should be able to get good clean out of it. You can always mic it if you need more. And as a bonus, the PR is small and light and back-friendly. A DR is already a big jump up in weight.
But all those you mentioned are fine.
In 40 years I’ve never had an amp fail me on stage, all of them Fenders or my own builds.
stevenLast edited by stevo58; 06-24-2018 at 01:39 AM.
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A DRRI gets freaking loud with an efficient speaker. I’ve never had a problem. PRRI with efficient speaker also pretty loud but gets hairy sooner than the DRRI. Both sound good even at the edge of breakup. I don’t want gigs loud enough to distort a DRRI. Originally Posted by Bach5G
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Why isn't the Fender Twin Reverb on the list?
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Thank you very much for your insight.
And all the experience with the JC-120.
I believe the Fender Princeton is good option. I once tried the Fender Princeton 68 with tremolo and I had a good impression.
But i am more willing to avoid valves... if possible.
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Mainly because of price. I would spend up to 1200 in an amp.
I think it is enough to what i am aiming.
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I really disagree. I tried a Katana 100 on the clean sound it is not a JC-120.
When you turn up the volume it breaks like a Fender valve. I think they intended the clean to imitate more a Fender valve.
But I know it is possible to "load" the JC-120 as a preset... one of my questions is if anyone know how believable or real this sounds.
The same for other presets.
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There are some Princeton clone-models with a stronger PowerAmp. E.g. Headstrong amps makes a Princeton with 6L6s.
I have their LilKing (the Princeton clone) since about 9 years and will probably kepp it forever;-)
(But it was much less money back then.)
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The Princeton certainly is not a "big" amp. It is popular for home use and recording, you won't find many players gigging with it with full bands. And those who do have probably been through the whole big amp thing and know how to handle a smaller amp and its limitations. Even the Deluxe at 22 watts won't give you the ease of having clean headroom wherever like a 40 watt amp will. It is a great amp, but may or may not work for your gigs.
If spending high money for a gigging amp, buy safe unless you really know what you need. Buy something popular used, see if it works for you, and if it doesn't flip it without money loss. Don't get stuck (or take a big money loss) with an expensive amp that, while being great at some things, might not be what you need.
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In the the Tone Studio software there are, with some finagling, 27 amp choices available. The one Boss calls the JC120 is the one that is pre-loaded as the default clean. The gain can add some dirt and the EQs are very responsive and that clean can be made to put out a nice tweedy sound. I prefer that sound over their default crunch/tweed for a blues. Never played a JC120 but I don’t believe it can be made to do that.
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thanks for the reply Originally Posted by Alter
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