V Neck Pain

[Longways to Go]

I remember trying a couple of Loars and thinking that the V neck felt extreme -- more than I could ever get used to.
In contrast, my '34 L7 has a very soft and comfortable V -- a world of difference -- and it is very comfortable to play.

On another tangent, I find myself wondering if maybe your pain is caused by gripping too hard?
Perhaps an adjustment in technique might help.

I sometimes battle tendonitis and have found a daily regiment of stretching exercises to be very effective in managing the tendonitis and keeping my guitar practice comfortable. Ulnar nerve glides are a godsend for me.

[lammie200]

YogaHands | Fight Finger Joint Pain, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome & Hand Cramps

I have a pair of these for stretching. They help a lot for me.

[Bill Eisele]

i also play in the classical position and i ended up becoming a thumb wrapper, i guess you'd say. i tend to use my thumb and slightly altered voicings/fingerings to get around most bar chords. i also use capos all the time. i know those last two things are super verboten around here, but it is what it is and i am fine with it. the upside is that i come up with different things because i'm using the guitar in a different way. the downside to that is that thicker necks and wider nuts would make that harder, unless you have larger hands.

come to think of it- have you experimented with nut width? maybe a wider/narrower nut (or string spacing) can alter the feel of the guitar enough to make things easier for you? i have everything from 1 5/8" to just under 2" and manage ok on all of them, but every guitar is different, and the different constructions and varying feels require and inspire different things. another data point you may want to consider.

weirdly, i occasionally find myself pulling the guitar closer into my body with my right arm and not using my left thumb at all. its rare, and tends to happen higher up the neck with a capo, but i've seen it happen.

my doctor and rheumatologist both told me to stop playing, get another job and take pills every day. i didn't do any of those things. and i very rarely experiment with v necks. i'm very much a crew neck guy, but i do love me a good cardigan.

I've had a number of guitars with varying nut widths and different kinds of necks, etc., both steel string flattops, archtops, and classicals. I would say that the basal thumb joint pain seemed to arise around the same time as the acquisition of the Loar guitars, but it could be coincidental. With aging, I've had a lot physical issues appear so can't say for sure. I just now started playing my Eastman electric archtop and find that it is somewhat easier to play, not sure if it's because of the softer neck profile. Will have to experiment more.

And, I do like the freedom to go with different voicings to get away from bar chords if necessary. It's liberating as opposed to classical guitar where you must adhere to what's written in the sheet music.

[Bill Eisele]

I remember trying a couple of Loars and thinking that the V neck felt extreme -- more than I could ever get used to.
In contrast, my '34 L7 has a very soft and comfortable V -- a world of difference -- and it is very comfortable to play.

On another tangent, I find myself wondering if maybe your pain is caused by gripping too hard?
Perhaps an adjustment in technique might help.

I sometimes battle tendonitis and have found a daily regiment of stretching exercises to be very effective in managing the tendonitis and keeping my guitar practice comfortable. Ulnar nerve glides are a godsend for me.

I'm certainly guilty of playing with too much tension. I'm really trying to pay attention to that and eliminate it from my practice and playing. I think it's really hard to unlearn it if it's been incorporated into muscle memory for those tunes that have been memorized. And, I have been given stretches for the hands and forearms. Just have to remember to do them every day. I'm going to PT right now for something else so will ask about the ulnar nerve glides. I've done them in the past, but wonder how they work if you've had ulnar nerve release and transposition in both elbows, which is my situation.

[Bill Eisele]

YogaHands | Fight Finger Joint Pain, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome & Hand Cramps

I have a pair of these for stretching. They help a lot for me.

Thanks! Will look into these. And, I thought I had a link to hand exercises for guitarists, but can't find it right now. Will post when I locate it.

[Bill Eisele]

Here is the link I mentioned and was trying to locate previously, not just for the hands, from the British Association for Performing Arts Medicine: http://bapam.org.uk/documents/A4Dont...MFactsheet.pdf. I will try these out.

[bananafist]

Funnily enough, I was given these sheets a couple of years ago, but they disappeared in the mists of time! I feel exhausted just looking through them. (English SOH).
You mentioned tension, have you thought of using lighter strings? I know many take the view 'it has to be 13s or you wont get any sound, etc.,' but my Slaman is being built with a lighter, more responsive top to use 11s, and I always use lighter strings than most archtop players I've met. It may reduce acoustic volume a little, but it will work, and its much kinder on the hands/joints/muscles. For me the decision was continue playing in a format that suits me, or give up - not an option IMO.
I had a Loar 700 a while back, as I loved the tone Rob McK demonstrated on his videos, but I returned it because of the V neck. I understand there is enough 'meat' to allow the neck to be re-shaped, and in fact there was one for sale a few years ago that had been re-shaped.
My thumb consultant recommended a brace to use as needed with my thumb, and it does support it better than any others I've tried.
Its marketed as a PUSH braces ortho thumb-brace in the UK.

[Bill Eisele]

Funnily enough, I was given these sheets a couple of years ago, but they disappeared in the mists of time! I feel exhausted just looking through them. (English SOH).
You mentioned tension, have you thought of using lighter strings? I know many take the view 'it has to be 13s or you wont get any sound, etc.,' but my Slaman is being built with a lighter, more responsive top to use 11s, and I always use lighter strings than most archtop players I've met. It may reduce acoustic volume a little, but it will work, and its much kinder on the hands/joints/muscles. For me the decision was continue playing in a format that suits me, or give up - not an option IMO.
I had a Loar 700 a while back, as I loved the tone Rob McK demonstrated on his videos, but I returned it because of the V neck. I understand there is enough 'meat' to allow the neck to be re-shaped, and in fact there was one for sale a few years ago that had been re-shaped.
My thumb consultant recommended a brace to use as needed with my thumb, and it does support it better than any others I've tried.
Its marketed as a PUSH braces ortho thumb-brace in the UK.

If I did all the physical therapy home exercises that I've been given over the years, they would fill at least a 2" ring binder and become a full time occupation. But these look worthwhile for me to give them a go. I recall some aspects of these that were given to me in the past as home exercises.


Actually, I have no higher than 12s on my guitars and have installed a set of Martin silk and steel strings on one of my guitars as an experiment. Very light tension and easy on the fingers and hands. As you indicate, it's best to have heavier gauge strings on these guitars to drive the top. However, sometimes we have to make compromises and, in your case, the guitar is being built to accommodate the lighter gauge strings so it won't be a compromise.

I'm still on the fence about reshaping the neck on the LH-700 (the LH-300 is up for sale on Reverb), mainly because it's probably mine forever and I would need to find someone in my area competent enough to do the reshaping and refinishing. I would want someone local so they can do the shaping and fit it to my hand in real time. And, the LH-700 has a much softer V than the LH-300, but it's still there and potentially causing problems.

I think I found the brace you referenced and it's described as a Push Metagrip. It's quite different than the thumb and hand braces I have on hand, so worth a try. I see the hand surgeon on Thursday and will bring a copy of the brace description with me. Thanks!

[coolvinny]

Here is the link I mentioned and was trying to locate previously, not just for the hands, from the British Association for Performing Arts Medicine: http://bapam.org.uk/documents/A4Dont...MFactsheet.pdf. I will try these out.

I like that PDF. Much better than the vast number of bad suggestions out there telling people to immediately launch into a full arm stretch (i.e. grabbing fingers of outstretched arm and stretching down - something that one should not do unless first warmed up...a general principle of stretching i.e. to warm up first). For Guitar, I think the warm could be condensed down to just extending fingers/making fists/alternating around 10 times.

[Bill Eisele]

I like that PDF. Much better than the vast number of bad suggestions out there telling people to immediately launch into a full arm stretch (i.e. grabbing fingers of outstretched arm and stretching down - something that one should not do unless first warmed up...a general principle of stretching i.e. to warm up first). For Guitar, I think the warm could be condensed down to just extending fingers/making fists/alternating around 10 times.

I was told by Pat O'Brien, a lutenist/guitarist, who helped rehabilitate many stringed instrument musicians with hand injuries, to warm up the hands by doing one-handed claps repeatedly before playing. It really increases blood flow into the hands. You can really feel the hands warm up.