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Did anyone play on an Eastman T186MX?
If so, how would you assess overall playability, tone and feedback resistance?
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05-30-2018 09:06 AM
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I do not own a 186 but I do have a 165 MX (A single cut version of the MX body) and I have played both the 185, and 186.
Playability and build quality is excellent, as is balance but unplugged they're no more loud than any other semi hollow I own but are a bit more prone to feedback than my other semis. Mine has Lindy pups (replacement for the original pups by the PO) and I only have anecdotal memory of the 186MX with Seth lovers which I remember I liked quite a bit, but not enough to spring for a 186MX :-).
The only down sides I see to the MX in general is they do not have a pick guard, and newer models have much plainer maple tops where the tops older specimens were absolutely drop dead gorgeous on all of the MX and T486 models.
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Fairly newish poster here. I had a chance to play an Eastman T184MX in a guitar shop, unplugged and plugged in. The playability of this guitar was excellent. Very slinky action (guessing 10's on the guitar), easy to fret chords, and overall the guitar felt very balanced and comfortable (have to take into account the two less inches in the bout compared to what you're interested in). IIRC, it was not neck heavy. And, build quality was excellent as well. I almost walked out of the shop with the guitar. I have a lot of hand problems, so was looking for a guitar that was easy on the hands and body, in general. However, for the kind of music I'm interested in, chord melody, I felt the amount of sustain was too much. I don't have experience with semi-hollow guitars, so please take this with a grain of salt.
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The amount of salt I take things with here is measured in bags. Not in grains...
Nice to have you on the forum!
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Thanks, Brubra! An incredible wealth of information, knowledge, and talent here on the forum. Will try to keep my salt intake down!
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Apologies, not tried the 186, just purchased the 2018 redesigned 184, mightily impressed.
Key design specs were a narrower headstock and replacement of Seymour Duncans, now has customised Lollar Imperial pups. I enjoyed these pups so much, I have ordered a set of Lollar low winds for my Yamaha SA2200.
Only the T184MX 2018 model has the Lollars, I believe the 186 has the SD pups.
Yes, the body of the 184 is the smaller, 14" style, similar to the Gibson ES360/339 models.
The other key thing is both the 184 and 186 are practically hollow guitars, no centre block as per traditional thinlines.
I've got to think that the 186 will be similar in tone and playability to the 184, bearing in mind the dimension and pup difference, ergonomically there will a difference due to body size. Also, would imagine, the 186 will have better body/air resonance as a result of it's greater body size.
All in all, the 184 guitar is a joy to play, am sure the 186 will be the same. Eastman have a deserved healthy reputation for producing quality instruments.
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Overall a good appraisal of the T18- range. I bought a white T186mx real cheap, it was an older model with the asian KA pickups. Had my tech replace the harness, SD Seth Lover 4 wires and the SD Quickshot switching system (built into the pickup surrounds). Very nice. The T18- series has a small block only under the bridge/tailpiece so it's light and more resonant, maybe a tad feedback prone. I eventually gave it to a buddy of mine, Jazzmaster DeChown Jenkins, hearing him tear into it thru my Fuchs was amazing... nail it kid...
?If you want a less semi sound experience consider locating a T14- series. I once owned a T146smd that had it's electronic replaced with SD Seth Lover 4 wires and push pull pots. THAT was a nice guitar, at less than 2 inches thick and a 16 inch wide lower bout it's very comfortable. Loud enough to be play unplugged and hear yourself... The T14- and T186 range aren't that well known and are great bang for the buck instruments.
Big
Originally Posted by drlaim
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I kinda remembered that name, DeChown Jenkins, googled him and it came to me, I like the Common track "Invocation", I like hiphop that samples or uses a jazz track/musician. So, many thanks for triggering that in my mind, saved both his website and YouTube sites. Excellent guitarist.
Plus, you've got got a Fuchs, oh, envious of that, very difficult/near impossible to source up here in Scotland, rare as hen's teeth. It's difficult enough to get an Eastman electric of any kind up here Now, if you want an Eastman mandolin, there's more than a horse could shit of those, hardly conducive with jazz though.
I've got to compromise by getting the Fuchs plugin for my Universal Audio interface.
By the way, that was a good looking 184 you had.
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I have the same guitar as BigMike - T186MX, same deal where they discontinued black and white models and I got a black one at a discount, Asian Kent Armstrong pickups. I think mine is from 2010. I replaced the pickups and electronics with Lollar Low Wind Imperials and changed the pots to Bourns with four push pulls to get split and series/parallel pickup sounds. Here's my take on the instrument from a guy of average stature and hand size for someone that lived 200 years ago.
I think I tried the 184, 185 and 186 and liked the 186 best. If I had to do it again I would have still gone with the 186 due to personal tastes but I really liked the 185 as well. The 184 didn't have the same character as the others in my opinion.
Good: I like that you can get a warm, decent amount of overtones sound due to the solid wood/small internal block construction. I would say that with the volumes all the way up that there is plenty of focus to get closer to a normal semi-hollow tone. If I could do it again and couldn't get an Eastman I would go for the same thing - solid or maybe laminate guitar with very small center block. It they made one of these with a spruce top (maybe they do, not sure) I would like that even more.
I'm don't really follow the different hardware options for guitars but I really like the tuners and bridge and wouldn't consider changing them.
The sound unplugged and plugged in is excellent, I practice unplugged a lot and the guitar really does sound great, a lot of clarity, no sympathetic vibrations. I use light bottom/heavy top round wound strings with a pretty bass heavy Fender amp (11 set on bottom, 13, 16, 19 on top). You could probably use an 11 or 12 set of strings and sound fine.
Bad: I had some minor-ish finish issues but my understanding is that Eastman sorted these out a while ago.
Aesthetically the guitar looks big on me but such is life for us folks that have to stand in the frontish rows for pictures.
I don't think this is bad but something to consider. I've always judged guitars by how much I like their neck first and foremost, everything else is almost secondary. When I was in the market to buy this guitar Eastman was the only company that had an instrument with the quality, construction and price that worked for me so I was willing to compromise on my personal neck preference a little. In this case the neck is quite wide and flat and if I could make a change it would be to have something with a narrower neck width. The depth of the neck is fine but I would like something with more of a C shape and less of a D. I find that the neck is fine but punishing if I don't have my chops together. I find that the neck doesn't let me 'mail it in' when my playing gets sloppy.
My good/bad decisions: I actually probably would have left the pickups alone or changed them to something else, probably something unpotted (maybe Seth Lovers or Antiquities, or a Kent Armstrong - I really like the Kent Armstrongs, not sure which model though). I learned how to get a good sound out of the stock pickups and then out of vanity decided to get something 'better' but sometimes it's better to just learn how to use what you have. I find that the Imperials sound 'great' in a generic sense, i.e. they sound nice but common - like an attractive person that lacks the quirks of a less attractive person that aren't appealing at first but you learn to enjoy very much once they grow on you.
Also, while I like the series/parallel sound, the split sound is useless and I can't see myself ever actually using it so all the effort in changing the wiring wasn't really worth it and I'm thinking about tearing everything out and simplifying the wiring to a simple series/parallel wiring, although having just series would be fine as well. I put Bourns pots in, the guitar comes with Alphas I think. I would say if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Long story short, if you like the neck and the sound of the guitar and the guitar works for you ergonomically then I would say go for it. The Eastman bang for the buck, in my biased opinion, is tremendous.
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I have one of these with maple back/sides and a spruce top. It's probably my most versatile guitar. The carved top was carved quite thick, so it really doesn't get much feedback, even at loud volumes. I can't comment on the standard version of this guitar, as I've never played one. But this guitar with the spruce top is wonderful. It has a dark and really thick tone. It originally came with Seth Lovers, and it currently has Lollar Single Coils (p90ish, but with a bit more overtones and less low mids). I am actually considering putting some humbuckers back in (might get Fralin Big Singles) and making it my main gigging guitar for anything post-bebop. My only wish would be if this guitar had a trapeze tailpiece rather than a stop tailpiece.
Here's some weird music you might hate on it.
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Agreed that it would be cool with a trapeze tailpiece. I'm not sure that it would have a huge effect on the sound but it would be hip.
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Hi,
I have only just bought a T185 so as for the craftsmanship and tone I personally couldn't ask for anything more. It has a fat sound and have had it quite loud and no feedback trouble so far - the small block seems to help with that. I was after a fatter sound out of my Yamaha 335 copy for ages but could not get it with various adjustments. This Eastman solved that problem for me having solid hand carved construction. It has a great punchy sound on single notes when plugged in.
Hope this helps - if you can try a 186 or 185 I would highly recommend it.
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i owned one as well as a T386. Both great guitars. I like the 186 better. It has a really sweet sound because of the solid top and unlike the 185 and 184 it's not neck heavy. Wish it came with a pickguard though. Never had an issue with feedback. It was good quality but like all eastmans the finish is very brittle.
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Thanks guys for all your input
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I have a T184 and the neck and fretboard feel really solid. It sounds quite nice, especially acoustic and with some overdrive. It becomes muddy with heavy metal-type distortion, which is not surprising. I use it with a Marshall tube combo amp (DSL something). It doesn't really feedback for me. But I can imagine it can be more of a problem when you perform, have higher volumes and maybe some effects.
I have to tune it every time I use it. But that often means once a week as this guitar is at my weekend house where I usually play piano (as I don't have a piano in my apartment).
Only odd thing about it is the ebony fretboard. It is scratchy. The first few days, it would turn my fingers black. When you bend a note, you feel but also hear it scratch while you push it along the fretboard. Maybe I push too hard on my strings and I am used to jumbo frets. Donno. The hardware does seem of the traditional old design and I have this feeling that more modern bridges and tuners are more reliable. The tuners actually feel very small and almost toy-like. I don't think they have oil inside, for example.
Only other issue I have with it is that I rather have a more practical guitar as a practice guitar. It seems like a great semihollow which I should use as a recording and performance guitar. I am actually thinking about getting a headless solid body for my weekend house. When it is late in the evening and after having had alcohol, I don't like to have a semihollow when I walk from my computer to my tv and then to my living room. It feels a bit fragile sometimes. I fear dropping it too hard, hitting a wall with the headstock. And maybe this is a modern complaint, but I don't understand why a E335 guitar cannot have coil tapped humbuckers. Also, I often play behind my computer, and having a more ergonomic body and no headstock is then more convenient.
When I sit in a lazy position, the lack of round edges on the bottom of the body become annoying. The hard angles of a semihollow become annoying as a practice guitar. I see people say it is neck heavy. I feel that is true. But I am used to a Dean ML and a headless. And those are both body heavy. I much prefer that, in hindsight.
I cannot compare it with other semihollows as this is my first one.
I tried to get one with a natural finish/neutral wood color, but now I have a sunburst and I find that incredibly boring.
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the fingerboard was probably dyed. Real ebony is rarely black these days...
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I just took delivery today of an essentially new 2018 T185 that I got off ebay. Love it so far. BUT, I'm concerned after putting on a guitar strap to see how it feels standing, which is really important for me. Although it feels balanced sitting, it is very neck heavy when standing. The only way to keep it in position is with some firm assistance from my right arm pressed against the body.
Is this normal for a thin body like this without a complete block through it like a 335 to help counterbalance the neck? I've been a solid body player up until now.
The neck-side strap button is just in from the neck joint on the back of the body, which I expect is pretty normal.
I can tell there's some very experienced players in this forum, so appreciate any feedback.
The other issue is some fairly significant sympathetic vibration in a few spots. It's annoying but doesn't seem to come through the amp. I found another good thread on this on the jazzguitar site, and it sounds like it goes with the territory and can be hard to locate the source.
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Funny, the double cut semi's that I own or have played seem to go from slightly neck heavy, to well balanced to body heavy. But, of the single cut semi hollow models I've owned or played like the T165MX, ES-137/135, Pat Martino, Howard Roberts etc. all balance well. I guess I've just come to accept that DC's (even two exact models from the same maker) may be slightly neck heavy or light and compensate with a leather strap or stance.
You're right regarding the vibration, it can be a PITA to find. You may want to try diddling with the tuners, pup rings / mounting screws / springs, bridge, wiring, the nut and TP. Having someone dampen these with a bare hand or cloth in places while you find the vibration may get to the source quickly.
Anyway, If the rest of you folks haven't already found them, check out:
Eastman Guitar Fans - Discussion Forum
The site is still relatively new but membership is growing steadily.
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I haven't played the T185, but I do have a T145, which is a 15" body, fully holllow, and very light. It's under 5 pounds, and thus a little neck heavy. One thing I did is change the metal tuner buttons for ebony. It looks much better IMO and I lost a lot of weight way out on the headstock, which makes a lot of difference in balance. It's easier to move the center of gravity when the weight change is further from the center. For nerds, the CG change is weight times arm, arm being the distance from the CG. Thus you have to add or remove much more weight if you're doing it closer to the center of the body, which is about where you want the CG to be. The change for me was ~60 grams, IIRC, the difference in weight between the metal and ebony buttons, and that did make the guitar balance better. I would have had to add several times that much to the tailpiece area to get the same results.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by sympathetic vibration. A hollow body will vibrate, as it's designed to do. It's a good thing unless it causes unwanted buzzing/rattling, and that can be hard to pin down. There are innumerable parts and pieces that can vibrate and cause noise, and it's trial and error to find exactly what it is. The usual suspects are the pickups, pickguard, and pots/knobs. I had one guitar on which the rattle turned out to be the shaft of the tone pot vibrating inside the pot. It was a push/pull pot, and enough wear had occurred to let the shaft vibrate. I changed the pot for a normal one, since I didn't use the coil split anyway, and the noise went away. But there are so many possibilities, you never know until you patiently go though and tighten everything, either by the screws or by holding something while you try to find the noise. It can take time, but it's usually fixable some way.
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I've been lucky enough to see (and listen to) Derek Bailey in Paris in 1982 approximately, he was playing an Epiphone acoustic archtop and a guy called Tanaka Min was doing some kind of very slow motion with his body. Derek was an amazing musician and a fantastic guitarist. He was able to make his Epi produce a strange feed-back effect which I wonder, even today, how was it possible, and his lenguage would still be audacious today. No need to say that we were a very small audience, maybe 20 fellows or so. Great remembrance. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
(Sorry for the off-topic)
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Thanks Gnappi and Sgosnell. It sounds like changing out the Gotoh tuners could be worth it. If there is a lighter tuner I can drop in. I’ll check
out the Eastman forum too. I didn’t catch it before but I see someone on this thread said the T186 is better balanceed. That makes sense. It’s a big headstock on a smaller body. I was originally planning on the 186 until I saw a good price on the 185.
But so far the carved body seems so much more lively than the few laminates I had a chance to play for a while over the years.
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No real need to change the tuners, they're all close to the same weight. Just change the buttons. You can get ebony tuner buttons for almost any tuner brands off ebay or etsy. Or several other wood species, for that matter, it's just a matter of taste in the color.
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that's not true. Spertzals and several of the open designs are much lighter. It's more than the buttons. But if you're worried about neck-heavy, the 186 is not neck heavy. The 185 is but they are redesigning the headstocks on those so hopefully the newer ones will not have a problem. Over on my facebook forum (modern jazz guitar), zakk jones posts there who is an eastman endorser and the 186 is his favorite axe. No feedback and it's tone is beautiful. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Originally Posted by Pierrot
Yes, Derek's Epiphone Emperor was the perfect instrument for him. He used it to record his two albums of jazz standards.
And the Min Tanaka stuff is wonderful! Tanaka is a great butoh dancer. The footage of one of their performances is on youtube. They also recorded one of their performances and pressed it.
Here's some footage.
Oh, and to get this thread back on topic, here's my Eastman 186 again.
I changed the pickups to Fralin humbuckers because some places I play produce way too much hum with single coils. The neck position is a Big Single and the bridge is a p-92. Both sound fantastic.
I have no issues with neck heaviness. The guitar is incredibly versatile, especially with the pickups in it now. You can't beat a hollow guitar with a carved spruce top that doesn't feed back.
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All of the MX (184,185,186) that I have seen have dot markers. My T-486 has the markers in your pic and it is decidedly body heavy, was yours a custom build? Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
>>SNIP<< Oh, and to get this thread back on topic, here's my Eastman 186 again.
I changed the pickups to Fralin humbuckers because some places I play produce way too much hum with single coils. The neck position is a Big Single and the bridge is a p-92. Both sound fantastic.
I have no issues with neck heaviness. The guitar is incredibly versatile, especially with the pickups in it now. You can't beat a hollow guitar with a carved spruce top that doesn't feed back.
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