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Hi there! My name is Ezequiel, I'm from Argentina, I'm new on this forum and I want to share with you some doubts and questions about getting a jazz guitar sound.
I started with jazz guitar two years ago, and I find that sometimes when I have to play in a concert, the sound engineer tells me that the guitar lacks "brightness", the point is that I HATE the sound of my guitar with more of 3 or 4 of tone, and I love the sound I get with the tone knob on zero with the neck pickup, but it seems that when it comes to mixing is not too good for the soundman.
Last weekend I played with my trio and the soundman told me that using the tone knob on zero is very complicated to get definition, so I've been thinking about what can I do about it.
Do you think that adding an EQ would be good to give my sound the brightness that is lacking without having to put more points on the tone knob? Or maybe you could recommend me a good neck pickup to get that fat thick sound that I love but with definition?
I don't wanna sound classic (like Montgomery, Pass, Hall), I'm looking for a modern sound like Gilad Hekselman, Lage Lund, Mike Moreno or Adam Rogers.
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05-03-2018 04:45 AM
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Hi Ezequiel,
Whaht guitar you play? hollow-body?
Best
Kris
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Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that! I have Samick HJ650 Artist Series (L5 copy I think), with original pickups, a full hollowbody archtop.
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Where do you pick the strings?
Originally Posted by Ezequiul
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I used this model of Samick years ago.It is good for more classic jazz sound.
I think you can get fat jazz sound on it but not sure the quality of pick ups.
...for modern sounding you need more sustain of the guitar.
sound like Gilad Hekselman, Lage Lund, Mike Moreno or Adam Rogers every of them use different instruments.
Construction of the the guitars and parts/bridges,tailpieces,strings/ are different.
Best
Kris
ps.
You can experiment with strings also on your Samick.13 flat -you can get fat classis sound/with minimum trebble pot/...but sustain.
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I pick them mostly over the neck pickup, but I think is more a equalization problem.. Originally Posted by christianm77
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That's what I'm avoiding, to sound classic. I don't want that sound. Originally Posted by kris
I've used some flatwound strings, but the problem was the lack of sustain. I'm using roundwound 012 and sustain is not the problem now, but the definition of the sound using the tone knob on zero seems to be a problem.
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amp?
good amp can correct some problems...you can also experiment with the bridge/wooden or tune-o-matic/.
..with the metal parts you will get better sustain but more "metalic sound".
There are also different saddles in tune--matic b -titanium,teflon,plastic...etc...they help cancel "metal" sound.
do you play loud? feedback with the fat body guitar is a normal...
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Originally Posted by Ezequiul
He might be right, and that has something to do with physics and the way the human ear works.
Turning the tone knob all the way down you boost some low mids and eliminate almost all treble. That might sound great to you in a small room (studio, home), but makes it difficult to hear and listen to in a big room or open air situation. If the venue is kind of noisy or has lots of reflections from the walls doubly so.
Also it is a big difference how you like your guitar sound playing alone and how it sounds good in a band context to others.
These are very common problems that are encountered in all kind of music styles, and a simple solution can rarely be found by just adding one more element (like an EQ pedal).
There are lots of ways to get closer to a better sound, but you'll end up with a compromise, that's very probable.
Some suggestions:
- Try recording your guitar in a looper and then leave it alone and walk the venue and listen how it sounds over the PA.
- Record your live show with a portable (high quality) recorder placed near the FOH mixer and see how you like what you hear.
- If this is a typical trio is there any treble left besides the cymbals? Are you happy with that? Is the frequency spectrum equally filled?
- Read in PA/recording forums, you'll find zillions or threads about how to embed/stick out guitars in the mix.
... and so on.... it's a process, no easy fix here.
:-)
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+1 DonEsteban,
it's a process, no easy fix here.
Kris
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more acoustic or more electric fat jazz sound...?
every guitarist looking for that...
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On the other hand: if you like that sound and you want to sound like that, then don’t compromise because someone else (the soundengineer) has a different view and wants you to sound different and to impose that on you.
So you will to find a diplomatic and polite way of telling the sound guy to f#%£ off.... ;-)
Being real passionate about your music and sound usually helps. Be convincing in telling him that this is the sound you have in your mind and you can’t express yourself with more treble. No artistic compromises!
Now if YOU are not happy with the sound, that’s a different story.....
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Please allow me to disagree. You depend on the FoH person unless you can bring your personal engineer. Once you stand up there and play you're in this persons hand. My personal rule: Never fight the local staff! Originally Posted by Little Jay
Also, he might know the room and the acoustics better than me.
And, what worth is my insisting on my artistic (sound) preferences when it not can not be heard by the crowd?
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Rolling off the trebles and then add EQ sounds pretty pointless to me. You can’t take something away and then add it again.
On a general level:
It took me a long time to get accustomed to the fact that I have to adjust both guitar and amp every time, to suit the particular situation.
However, come to think of it, that is the only way to go. You are never in a vacuum but react to other players, the audience, the room, your personal mood at that particular moment - why should the position of the tone knob not vary? Note that I did not say „sound“ - there are so many factors that influence the sound that the tone knob is just one of them.
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acoustic engineers-everyone hear different and that is a problem also...
one say more trebble another say play warmer sound and next one put more reverb...that is my expierience...
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You can have great sound in home but it is not live gig.
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An external eq would be your friend. The tone control on the guitar can kill your sound, a well tuned eq won't. A 400hz mid boost is also a good idea. Or a pickup upgrade.
What's your amp?
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I can't stand the tone set to zero on the neck pickup, it sounds terrible to me. I get quite a fat sound by using the neck pickup, by means of picking technique (I ensure the pick hits the string at an angle, not 'flat on') and by picking over the neck pickup. My tone control is set at about 6. People assume it's my guitar (a 175) that's responsible for the tone but I don't really accept that, I sound almost the same on my Ibanez solid-body guitar. Also if I hand my 175 to another player, they don't sound anything like I do, usually they get a much thinner tone (in my opinion anyway!).
But when playing with other musicians, I have had to turn the tone control up even higher, and also turn up the treble a bit on the amp. As others have said, what sounds great at home is often 'lost' in a live situation and needs compensating for.
Each to their own, but I can't understand why anyone wants the tone control set to zero. I like Pat Metheny's playing a lot, but some of his recordings sound like that to me and that sound spoils it a bit for me.
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… and the OP's trying to go for "modern," but I don't think Moreno, GHex, et al. play with tone at "0," either. Originally Posted by grahambop
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I agree, I like Gilad's tone and as you say, it does not sound like '0'. Originally Posted by marcwhy
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I had the same guitar, only branded Tamaki. The original p'ups were unusable, tone-wise. Originally Posted by Ezequiul
After trying several Gibson and I ended up with a Duncan APH1 set, and I changed the A2 magnet on the neck p'up with an Alnico 3, as that guitar had a resonant peak in the low mids, which wasn't easy to tame at the beginning. The "right" p'ups' height is paramount to get enough "body" without losing "articulation and definition". The APH1 set inherent tonefootprint have all the articulation and definition you'll ever need, and then some.
My tone control was set @ about 3-3.5. It still had definition and articulation, being pretty "fat" at the same time. Also, you need to set your amp accordingly. Using the tone control @ "0" is a recipe for mud.
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What's the amp?
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I've been using the regular APH-1 for the last few months, and I'm VERY happy. It's the pickup Lage Lund uses on his current guitar, I believe. Originally Posted by LtKojak
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Agreed. And there's a broad tonal palette on modern players, despite what we might think. Gilad has quite a bright tone, usually. Moreno's darker, he uses the tone control on the Klon to achieve that, not on the guitar, I believe. Originally Posted by marcwhy
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If you're getting lost in the mix you'll have to brighten up your tone or add a frequency that isn't being being stepped on by the other instruments in the mix.
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