Godin 5th Avenue Jazz - Your Thoughts?

[Tom Karol]

I'm down to 2 electrics now: An Eastman AR403ce (flatwound 12's) and a Godin Montreal Premiere (roundwound 11's). The Eastman is my 'Jazz' guitar, but the Montreal can do jazz very well indeed ... as well as pretty much anything else except heavier shades of rock, which I don't do anyway. The Eastman is very comfortable while sitting and has surprisingly pleasant acoustic tone for a laminate with a set-in pickup (moreso when I had it strung with roundwounds, but I'm enjoying the flatwounds for now). The Godin is quiet but still reasonablly satisfying for acoustic practice. It's pretty close to perfect in feel and balance for me when using a strap. If I were to be playing more rock than I am now, I'd probably get a Tele again, but this time maybe a thinline, as I find I really enjoy playing guitars that are closer to 6 pounds than 8 pounds.

[JWLUCEY]

I've had a Godin Jazz since Christmas and I've really been enjoying it. I alternate my pratice between that guitar and my Seagull, both acoustically. The Seagull has a much bigger sound, naturally, but I enjoy changing it up and the Jazz is almost more fun and smoother to play and I find the difference in the tones to be a kick.

I ordered a new amp which just came in the mail, so I'm looking forward to toying with the Jazz amplified this weekend.

[AlainJazz]

, I'd probably get a Tele again, but this time maybe a thinline, as I find I really enjoy playing guitars that are closer to 6 pounds than 8 pounds.

You would think that a thinline Tele would have more of a jazz tone than a regular Tele. I thought that and it seems logical. I have played a few thinlines and find them to lack the classic tele jazz tone. It is much easier in my opinion to get a good jazz tone out of a stock tele than a thinline.

[Tom Karol]

... It is much easier in my opinion to get a good jazz tone out of a stock tele than a thinline.

Interesting, but I've got the jazz tone thing already covered. I'd be looking for twang! Although the same assessment might still apply. Anyway, I only need what I've already got - but that never stopped me before!

[Tommy_G]

I am checking out some used 5th Aves over next few days.

Pickups: Godin p90s or HBs better?

Bigsby? Or not? In my case a nice to have for rockabilly / early rock embellishment. Or is there too much compromise on resonance?

Is a 200 US spread between a Kingpin 2 (either p90s or HBs available- or Uptown (HBs only) worth it.. Considering the latter has ebony fretboard and the bigsby


Also a nice looking Composer model around for 75 more than KP2 but composer only has 1 pu..

[gmek]

I would go for one with humbuckers myself. I had a kingpin and the p90 was why I got rid of it. Still a nice guitar though.

[Tommy_G]

Was it the hum or tone? What strings were you using?

[Doctor Jeff]

Well I had a Kingpin with a single P90, and it was a great guitar. I personally love the sound of that pickup. I had a lot of trouble with noise when I first got it, but easily tamed with an EHX Humdebugger.

Currently I have a 5th Avenue with a floater, but I still prefer the P90.

Having said that, I think the Composer with a HB might be the ultimate jazz guitar, kind of a best-bang-for-the-buck 165.

[gmek]

It was the hum for me. The lack of cutaway got to me eventually too. Tone was good, and the guitar itself was really fun to play. I tried it with flats and rounds. I liked the rounds better on it.

[lammie200]

...The lack of cutaway got to me eventually too...

I just traded my Godin Jazz floater in. Everything about the Godin was A+ except for the neck joint design IMHO. The fretboard itself is cantilevered over the top so the top resonates as freely as possible. That is the great part of the design. The not so great part is the cutaway. The guitar body protrudes out from the side if the neck from the neck joint into the cutaway area. It is not a smooth transition from the neck heel. Hence getting to the upper registers is not as easy as it could be.

[newsense]

You choice probably depends on what style you want to play.

I have the Composer and couldn't be more pleased with it for straight ahead jazz, standards, etc in a trio setting (Band in a Box !). It is very well built, light and resonant. It may have a slightly more acoustic tone than the archetypal laminate HB guitar (e.g. ES175), but it is not too bright , especially strung with TI Swings. After about a year, I am still happy with the stock Godin pickup, but may install a Seth Lover when I have nothing better to do with my pocket money - I'm in no hurry though.

[MikeTT]

I had a kingpin with p90, but changed the PU for a Fralin silent P90. After that change I liked it quite a lot.

[Tommy_G]

Got to try the Uptown tonight, with the HBs and Bigsby. The ebony fretboard was beautiful, flawless and the neck finish silky smooth. There are some people write about how they love Godin necks. Until this guitar my opinion was: what is the fuss about?". This one is 11/10. Also a very pretty guitar in the red with black parts.

Based on distant memory, I believe it wasnt as loud as some 5th Aves I have played, may have been the room, but the tone remained balanced. Amped, I thought it sounded best for straight ahead swing type chording and chord melody jazz.. For early rockabilly type tunes it was a little clunky sounding and feeling, but its not a gretsch lol and might be manageable with technique adjustment. Made me wonder why I would pay extra for a bigsby and bridge pickup...superflous marketing imo. Wish they made a KP 1 in this package.

This one is a torment. Fit and finish and cosmetics are first rate. Ahhh The neck! Soundwise its ok, but my instincts would be to replace the pickups and wiring to split coil humbuckers which would add probably 300+ bucks but at least I have a Gibson 57 Classic splitcoil unused in a box at home.. I admit based on my prior experiences with p90s I think i prefer them to the godin HBs. But the room was tiny, with a heavy carpet, so really what was I really hearing?!? You never know until you get a guitar into a familiar space.

Overall, i am positive I would bond with it more than my current archtop, but it still doesnt rock my world.

By comparison, the godin Montreal (original version in routed out Mahogany) that I picked up recently is rocking my world tonally for what I use it for (rock and country) but it is a solid body electric (in spite of its semihollow billing), and heavy like a bass guitar. Fugly to me.. But still possibly the the most exciting playing guitar I have owned in years.

I am a sucker for the beauty of the Uptown.

[John A.]

I am checking out some used 5th Aves over next few days.

Pickups: Godin p90s or HBs better?

Bigsby? Or not? In my case a nice to have for rockabilly / early rock embellishment. Or is there too much compromise on resonance?

Is a 200 US spread between a Kingpin 2 (either p90s or HBs available- or Uptown (HBs only) worth it.. Considering the latter has ebony fretboard and the bigsby


Also a nice looking Composer model around for 75 more than KP2 but composer only has 1 pu..

P90 vs Humbucker: To me, not a matter of better or worse. They're just slightly different flavors. I picked up a Kingpin (1 P90) last fall, and I really like the tone (the 2 pup version sounds similar plugged in; the 1 pup version is closer to a true acoustic guitar not plugged in). In general, single coil noise has never really bothered me, but I've been playing in a room with really bad wiring/dimmer noise recently, and single coils are borderline unusable there (my Strat, too). Using the the Kingpin in this room prompted me to pick up an Electro Harmonix Hum Debugger, which zaps the single coil buzz very well. Should have gotten one a long time ago.

I've tried the Uptown. Well made, good sounding guitar, but a) for some reason, I found the Bigsby arm got in the way of the knobs no matter where I put it, which I found a bit annoying; b) Very nice sounding, very playable guitar, but the sound is not distinct from any of a bunch of other humbucker equipped jazz boxes. That's not a bad thing, but if you want something that's a bit different, the P90 ones offer that more than the Uptown or the composer do. I think there's also an Uptown version with filterton-type pups, which might be worth checking out for Rockabilly or a more "different" sound. The uptown has a figured maple veneer top and a glossy finish vs the Kinpin's satin-finished plain cherry top, which I think accounts for more of the price difference than fingerboard wood. I think the price difference is probably smaller in the used market, FWIW.

John

[Jim Soloway]

I can't comment on anything with a Bigsby but I owned a Kingpin ii CW, a Kingpin ii HB, a Composer, and a Montreal Premier. I really liked all of them except the Kingpin ii HB.

The P90's in the Kingpin ii sounded great. Like all P90's the hum level was dependent on the power conditions. It was a very light build and had a very lively acoustic voice. The Composer was a little less lively and had a smoother, slightly warmer tone and of course had no noise issues regardless of the circumstances. The Kingpin HB was noticeably heavier than the other two and much stiffer. It lacked both the liveliness of the Kingpin ii CW and warmth of the Comopser. The Montreal Premier was the new version with the Duncan pickups. Absolutely great guitar and one of the better semi-hollows I've played.

And with all of these positives, if you're wondering why these are all referred to in the past tense, it's because we did a major purge of our lives before leaving for a 6 month Mexican road trip and I had no where to store them long term. Otherwise I'd have kept the Montreal Premier and one of the the KP ii CW or the Composer. The two hollow bodies were so close in appeal that I probably would have been happy with either.

Here are a few demos of the KP ii CW and the Composer including one that compares the two.

[Tommy_G]

Thanks for the helpful relies so far.

Got a montreal premiere w/HB and a Kingpin 2 CW on demo scedule for tonight.

[mr. beaumont]

Nice!

Can't say enough about the Kingpin series. Badass guitars.

[Tommy_G]

Here is my assessment matrix:

......by Genre.......Swing. Jazz. Blues. Rock. Ctry
Semi solid Montreal. 5. . 7. . 8. . 8 . 9
Montreal Premiere. 7. . 9 . 8. . 6 . 3
Fifth Avenue. 8. . 7. . 6. . 6. . 5


Tone and feel:

Semi Solid Montreal. Versatile solidbody tones aka Les Paul and Tele with piezo texturization.

Montreal Premier: Smooth Mellow Airy Bubbly, Laid back

5th Avenue: Woody toned with forward mids and percussive bark


Please indicate overall agreement or disagreement.

[Doctor Jeff]

Jeff and Jim as always you make the playing look too easy, but you are an inspiration for us duffers.

Tommy I have never played a SS Montreal but you have absolutely nailed the Premiere and the 5th Avenue. I couldn't have said it any better.

[Robertkoa]

I would go for one with humbuckers myself. I had a kingpin and the p90 was why I got rid of it. Still a nice guitar though.

I agree , especially because you can have a Series/ Parallel switch for a brighter sound from the pickups or a single coil switch for brighter still and a narrower magnetic window to the strings.

Single coil switches are a nice thing to have IMO on a Semi Hollow and Hollow Guitar.

But these are my preferences...I am not a tremelo fan
so ...

Personally - when I see a phatt sounding Semi Hollow or Hollow Guitar with P90's I wonder why...instead of a switch to get similar sounds.

Answer - many people have multiple Guitars and their P90 Archtop is for a fairly specific sound range.

OR they love some of the Jazz Guitars with P90s and just want to get them under their fingers..

I am very biased ( not necessarily rational either - lol)
against the Bigsby because I keep checking out demos and the Players can't keep their hands off the Bigsby ....rarararara sproing...at every phrase end ....lol

[Tommy_G]

Are the godin humbuckers 4 wires so I can rewire? I agree i would rather have humbuckers I can split or series parallel toggle.

[newsense]

From what I can see through the f-hole of my Composer GT, there are only two wires emerging from the cable sleeve to attach to the volume pot, which would indicate that, on mine at least, the Godin HB is only 2-wire.

[Tommy_G]

Final conclusion.

I never bought any of them.

If I played more swing, the price levels on used 5th Aves is very affordable and the red ebony Uptown is a gorgeous piece with every detail looked after to a tee.

I would say there is a Montreal Premiere in my distant future, but as my hearing has changed /dulled over the years I have grown unfond of the lower mid honk of humbucker pickups that this specific guitar had... I cant put out for a new one so will have to bide my time.

The thought is I could buy a set of pickups I like for replacement which would put me back another many extra hundred bucks. Had I loved the color of this specific one I may have done just that.

The other other thing that interfered with my commitment was I found an old Tacoma ThunderHawk baritone 6 string at a store, priced at about 30 percent of current collectors market for that guitar. I had been looking for one of those 6 months ago, but couldnt commit to mail order or price levels typical in the market.

I am very excited about that guitar, it sounds effin amazing, will only appreciate, has the best fit with my duo act. It was a no brainer on all accounts. I have very special plans for it.

[Uncle Vinnie]

Right now I have my '81 Les Paul Deluxe and my Tele (love 'em both) but now it's time for an archtop and I'm considering the 5th Avenue Jazz. I don't have enough for the '56 ES-175.

Specifically with the 5th Avenue, I like the long scale neck, ebony fretboard, single-coil pick-up (which I plan to replace with a Pete Biltoft Charlie Christian unit). Most of all I like the 16" radius fretboard which seems to make it easier to play chorded melodies with accuracy.

You guys have any experience with this model, or Godins in general? Good experiences? Bad experiences?

[Jim Soloway]

I much prefer both the Composer and the Kingpin II (p90 version only).