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I researched Telecasters from the perspective of the jazz musician for weeks before I first posted here a week ago. After taking into consideration all the different opinions that I read in this forum and others I thought I had reached logical conclusions about ideal specs and features for my sons instrument. Only then did I actually go to the Fender site to study their current models. To my surprise this ideal model in my head did not seem to even be produced. A little frustrated and second guessing myself, I laid it all out in a series of posts. After more than 50 great replies from people who were generous enough to take time to help, I am pretty much right back where I started. Here’s why. And please don’t tell me to just take him to play Telecasters. Because of his school and music schedule and my job, long distance shopping trips will have to wait until early June when he’s out of school. By then, if we haven’t already gone the Warmoth route I think our shopping trips will benefit from all the knowledge I’ve gained from you kind folks. Now once again I will lay out the what and the why. Best I can determine from all the replies I’ve received is that there are a couple unique things that make up the lions share of the Telecaster sound. First the bridge, second the pickups, third the relationship between the two. After provoking single coil users by expressing our desire to have a neck humbucker I began to question if I indeed even wanted a neck humbucker. Then after provoking the fans of humbuckers I regained confidence in my original desires. The simplified summary of a reply I received that seemed most sensible was this. A neck humbucker is great for jazz, but don’t neuter your Tele by putting one in the bridge. The Tele bridge and single coil is a signature part of the sound. Put a hardtail and bridge humbucker on a Tele and the main difference between it and a humbucker equipped Strat is cosmetic. It made and still makes sense to me now. I want a standard Telecaster bridge and single coil setup with a humbucker in the bridge. Next and arguably most important is the neck. We did finally find a 52 reissue to play that was owned by a music store clerk. It allowed us to rule out that neck. I had already concluded that a vintage U neck with a curved 7.25 radius was probably not what we wanted. The C neck with a 9.5 radius or even the compound radius seemed more vanilla or compromise which can sometimes be a good thing. So, armed with these two simple requirements I began to shop. And here I am, still wondering why Fender doesn’t make this seemingly vanilla compromise guitar. I’m not willing to settle for a 72 with the 7.25 radius. Or any of the other great models with singles in the neck. I prefer to buy a Fender but I’m not that excited about modding it. Once again...why is what I want so ridiculous?? Is just going the Warmoth route our best option?
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04-15-2018 11:49 AM
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So much easier if all of this was in one thread, so I'll just quote from another thread:
Originally Posted by Hammertone
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Warmoth is a great option but it works best if you have someone good to do the assembly and setup. I'm sure several of us could suggest options when the time comes. My first choice would be Portlad Fretworks. Warmoth can ship them the parts (which eliminates the sales tax). They put it together and then ship it to you.
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I can warmly recommend Warmoth. I did it four or five times and the good people at Warmoth were spot on every time. IMHO the quality of what you are getting is very high. Be prepared to have a tech go over your build later to make the guitar perfect. It will likely need to have work done on the frets and some adjustment on the neck plus a professional setup. Warmoth is very clear on that and in my experience it does pay of big time. Just factor that 100$ or so into the cost of the build and you still come out way cheaper than an upper end Fender (that frequently aren‘t set up right from the factory). Especially when you look out for Warmoth screaming deals and you finish the guitar yourself, you can do this likely for well under 1000$. Buying a professional wiring harness is probably a good idea unless you are savvy about electronics and soldering and there are a million choices on eBay for around 70$ or so. Putting the parts together is a piece of cake (and so am decidedly not good at that kind of thing).
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Ready to start receiving 50 more responses?
If the specs that you want don't exist off-the-shelf then, yeah, building a partscaster is an alternative. It isn't even that difficult to do. In the early 80's I owned two Fender Teles, one right after the other. In the late 80's I gave up on Fender and assembled my own hardtail Strat. I have reworked it 3-4 times. In the last couple of years I assembled a Tele and have reworked it once. If you can see where I am going with this, you might tell that 1) I like to tinker within my limits and partscasters are easy to tinker with, and 2) my desired specs have morphed over many years of playing.
Warmoth isn't the only alternative for partscaster parts, but it is probably the largest and it makes true Fender licensed bodies and necks. Assembling a partscaster is not difficult if you buy a finished body and neck, or ones made out woods that don't need to be finished. Most of the times I have reworked my Strat and Tele I didn't need professional setups because the frets and such were done right at the factory. The difficult part is making choices that you and your son will ultimately be happy with in the long run. You have mentioned some specs that you are locked into. Whether you will ultimately be satisfied with them or end up reworking them to eventually get what you want is another thing. Some other choices:
Woods, finishes;
Fret size, fret material;
Nut; (My own preference is for the shelf style Earvana nuts. They can be tweaked for a correct set up easily and I like the results.)
Tuners; (I like Fender locking tuners, but there are lighter alternatives.)
Wiring. (Regardless of your pick up choices, I suggest keeping the wiring very simple. More noise and the lack of useful tones may result from complex wiring schemes.)
Hope my bit of experience helps you.
P.S. I also assembled a 12 string Jazzmaster. It will be reworked shortly. My last point about complex wiring bit me. I used a six-position rotary switch and I have found only one position to be useful.
P.P.S.S. As I mentioned in a previous post, roasted woods are nice. Among other things it essentially ages the wood.
P.P.P.S.S.S. Warmoth sells ultralight one piece ash Tele bodies. I have used one for my last iteration of my Tele partscaster. Super great IMHO. Lots of sustain as well.
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The quickest way would really be to buy a "loaded" body on ebay or reverb, spec out the perfect neck on Warmoth, and be done with it. Super simple.
I can't say enough good about Warmoth necks.
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Buy someone else's for a fraction of the price. Telecaster forums, gearpage, reverb, eBay post frankenteles all the time.
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Options? I'll cover you in options.
Find a Larrivee "Bakersfield" tele used.
These came with 1 3/4" nuts.
They are discontinued and come up used here and there:
Larrivee Electric Guitars Bakersfield | Reverb
G&L offers some neck options, including the "Classic Wide C" - 1 3/4" wide:
USA Guitar Options | G&L Musical Instruments
The "ASAT Classic Bluesboy" looks like a good match with a "Classic Wide C" neck.
Fender-free zone:
Last edited by Hammertone; 04-15-2018 at 03:00 PM.
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There are lots of reasons to buy a guitar: as an efficient tool, as a prestige piece to impress the easily impressible, as an expression of your personal aesthetics, etc. In the end all those reasons usually lead you to an instrument that you can play and enjoy as a musician.
I believe it is perfectly valid to purchase a guitar that speaks to you for reasons more than just as a tool to make music. There may be more of Plato in me than Epicurus, but I still think some objects can bring joy regardless of their functionality. If it interests you to have a guitar that feels personal to you, that you hope will bond you to your son, that may become an item kept in the family for years, then custom is the way to go. I have no interest, do not play, and am not bonded with the Martins, Gibsons, and Fenders I have. I understand that for some a logo of an indifferent corporation feels personal and a part of their identity. How many people have I seen with "Porsche" sunglasses?! My first Strat copy with a Warmoth neck that I built 20 years ago hangs proudly on the wall in my office. My Fender Strat hasn't seen the light of day since the early '90s. The instruments I have made for my daughter and nephews are more special to me than any guitar I could imagine purchasing.
If you are looking for an efficient tool for making music, a Squire from Indonesia will get the job done and cost less than $300. If you want a bargain non-standard Tele you can hunt for someone else's cast off parts caster. But if you want a guitar that feels personal to you and is made from top quality components, Warmoth is a very good bet.
PS: If you do go Warmoth, a professional setup after assembly is generally a must so figure that into your budget.
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After following all of these threads, probably not. Originally Posted by Razorbackjazz
I've had nothing but great experiences with Warmoth, but at this point I think you should try to get a builder that can help you get what you want. I think someone like Ron Kirn or Chihoe Hahn (or others) could probably make what you want within your budget, and more importantly, answer all of your questions.
I think you need a lone, experienced voice to help you navigate through this. When you have this many questions, getting this many answers can further complicate things, even if they're all good, valid answers.
I know you can do an inquiry with no obligation to buy with Ron Kirn. Shop — Ron Kirn SignatureThere are many other builders, this is just one I know of and could provide a link to. I have no affiliation at all.
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In would argue that a hardtail bridge has nothing close to the affect on the sound as a single coil Tele bridge pickup. I would not worry so much about that part of you found a guitar that otherwise checked those boxes you want.
The stock Mexican Tele in the video I posted in the previous thread had a single coil in it but I put a Gibson Burstbucker in the neck shortly after that video and it had a great sound for any kind of music but it was a great jazz guitar. Inexpensive telecasters are often routed for a humbucker even if it comes with a single coil so that they can use the bodies on a variety of guitars. So I would still say getting a cheap Tele would be your best option, if you want a humbucker then it is very easy to drop one in, and get a modest archtop with the rest of the money. This won’t apply to everyone but I do think that most jazz players are going to want an archtop at some point. If you break the bank on a nice Warmoth Tele then he’ll have a nice Tele for sure but there is just not a huge difference between a MiM Tele and a nicer one once you plug it in and are playing in a group (as long as it is set up well).
The main advantage of warmoth for you would be to get a 1 3/4” nut, assuming that your son really likes the way the neck and string spacing feels on the Eastman he is playing. Other than that I don’t see a huge advantage to spending the entire budget on a nicer Telecaster when he could also get a Peerless, Ibanez, Eastman (advantage here being the neck will be similar to what he is used to) etc. archtop.
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I'm about to build my 4th Warmoth...a Jazzcaster in red sparkle.
I'm bummed I never discovered this earlier...but then I'd be loaded with more guitars.
Warmoth makes fantastic stuff. You just have to know what to look for and know what you want. It cured me of high end boutique stuff that sells for multiples of warmoth prices.
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That is the first Instrument I’ve viewed that checks all the boxes. Thank You. Originally Posted by Hammertone
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I Don’t want to talk you out of a warmoth build but thought you may want to look at a 52 hot rod reissue. This is different than the 52 avri. It has a neck humbucker and a 9.5 radius u shaped neck. There are too many telecaster choices.
You can search reverb. There are usually a couple. I don’t own one but I have played them and they are versatile and nice.
Disclaimer: do not know anything about the seller or guitar but something like below.
Fender Telecaster 52 Reissue Hot Rod 2008 Butterscotch Blonde w/ Maple Fretboard Fender Telecaster 52 Reissue Hot Rod 2008 Butterscotch Blonde | Reverb
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Okay I'll be the naysayer to Warmoth here. It's not that they don't build quality parts, it's that there are other parts for less $ just as good. If you want more of a true old Fender feel may I suggest Allparts for the neck (Stratosphere on Ebay)and look for a used body on Reverb or Ebay.
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I haven't scrupulously followed all the threads on this topic, but I'm going to put my oar in.
1st, don't buy an expensive first guitar for a teenager, no matter how good or committed they might be. You need to test out the waters, and in terms of Teles, there are a lot of great options.
2nd, while I'm a committed single-coil player myself, a humbucker in the neck is far easier on the beginner. More compression and no pesky hum.
3rd, Teles are an excellent modding platform, so you don't need to find the perfect model to begin with, you can often mod what you got to the place you want to be.
Now, I highly, highly recommend the GC FSR model. It's pretty inexpensive, it has hot single-coil pickups that can be used for jazz right out the door with less tweaking that more trad pups. It's got a good neck with good frets, an Ash body and if I recall correctly, there's a route for a humbucker already available under the pickguard, so if the single coil isn't working, it's pretty simple to toss a humbucker in.
Sorry, can't seem to to link out to the GC site, do a google search for "guitar center fsr telecaster" and that should pull up the link for you.
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These are excellent guitars. Seriously, if I were to buy an "off the rack" Fender branded tele for jazz tomorrow, it'd be this model. Originally Posted by jgs2n
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I too was going to recommend the Hot Rod. I had a ‘62 Vintage Hot Rod Strat that was flat out amazing. I remember seeing and playing the Hot Rod Tele and it was equally awesome. Thing is, when I bought mine in ‘07 they were around $1500. Ever since they discontinued the series I’ve watched the prices for used ones skyrocket, since they are much sought-after. Never could figure out why Fender stopped making them. Probably because they were too close to custom shop quality at an affordable price. The only “hot rod” feature was the much flatter radius than what came on their vintage reissues. I personally cannot stand the 7.25” radius. The Vintage Hot Rod series was for people like me. Originally Posted by jgs2n
If it’s really important for your son to have a Fender logo on the headstock, it would be so easy to get one of the newer Professional series Teles and if he’s not happy with the single coil neck pickup then swap it it out for a humbucker—a very easy mod and a great alternative to building a parts-Tele.
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G&L ASAT Classic Bluesboy?
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RBJ, you're gotten Webbed. You're ensnared in a morass of online opinion. Originally Posted by Razorbackjazz
All of that is subjective. I guaranty that somewhere out there somebody has said, "First the speaker, then the type of finish, then the fingerboard, then the bridge . . . ." They're right for them. They're not right for your son.
Yes. It will be great. You will have a great time with him. He will have an instrument that he will never ditch. Originally Posted by Razorbackjazz
Forget all theories of Teletude -- go find out. "Do . . . or do not. There is no try!"
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Does your son want a partscaster ... or would he prefer a Fender?
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GCS-1 | Comins Guitars .
Almost a Telecaster when you close your eyes.
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Or call Logan. Originally Posted by morroben
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I've owned quite a few Fenders in my day. Now? Nothing but Partscasters. Simply put: I like them better--they are made the way _I_ want them.
A young man, however, may be much happier seeing the Fender logo on that headstock, let me tell you. I'd suggest you have a heart to heart with your son to learn how much he would miss that logo before I bought him a no-name-caster.
If he has the maturity to go for the guitar, not the name, the world is his oyster. I think--in that circumstance--that Hammertone is a _great_ guide...he really knows his way around necks, bodies, pickups, bridges, etc.
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I've been playing for more than a half century and I'm an avid reader of techie material about guitars.
But, I could not order a bunch of parts and be certain that I'd like the result.
Even the most basic specs are mysterious. Here's an example. I played 24 3/4 inch guitars for decades. Every time I tried a 25 1/2 inch scale it felt too big. L-5, Tele, Strat -- whatever.
Then, I tried a Yamaha Pacifica and the 25 1/2 felt great. Still does.
But, it may be that the neck is so slender that the guitar will never sound as good as one with a thicker neck - and I recently bought a Comins GCS-1 as a result -- and it will be weeks before I know if I can play it comfortably and get my sound on it (these issues are related, since I'm going to have to go to lighter strings to get the feel I want).
I once bought a Strat. Felt great in the store and on my first few gigs. Then the radius started bothering me.
I read about C and D shaped necks all the time, with various additional adjectives, but I can't even guess whether I'll like them. Some manufacturers publish very detailed specs (Ibanez, for example), but I can't look at those numbers and predict how I'll like it, or how it will sound.
I can't be sure until I've played the guitar for a while.
So, in the last thread, I made one recommendation. Get a return privilege. Can you do that with a parts guitar?
One last point. I don't know about others, but I'm reluctant to buy someone else's parts guitar. I don't know how to tell one from another, I don't know how to evaluate quality of all components and I don't know how well it was put together. If I'm not the only one who feels this way, that's going to depress the resale value. So, if you don't like it, there's a bigger potential loss, unless I'm wrong about the resale issue, which is possible.
It may be that a parts guitar is something that makes more sense for the experienced player who can translate his preferences into specs. For a beginner, it may be something else.
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