$1200 Squier Telecaster

[Razorbackjazz]

Yes, I know it may seem ridiculous but if you’ll be kind enough to read on it will become clear what I’m up against. This is my third post seeking advice on a Tele purchase for my son to use for high school jazz. First a story from my own personal experience. When he started getting involved in a lot of extracurricular Upright Bass performances it became clear the school did not like letting a 12 year old drag his school bass home every day. That’s when the shopping started. It started similar to this Tele experience only over on Talk Bass. I was faced with what seemed to be 2 choices. Visit music stores with a decent selection of uprights. Let him play as many as possible and pick out the one he likes the best or... call a company in CT called Upton Bass and have them build one for him. It’s easy to make calls and in short order I found out an Upton would be $3500 which included shipping. I called several stores in my region who talked highly of their in stock instruments. It seemed I should be able to get a satisfactory (imported) upright for around $2000. So the travel began. After considering all the cost factors associated with the shopping experience we spent right at $1000 in travel, hotels, restaurants, lost time at work etc. on 2 separate what I can only call “mini vacations”. In the end we had the guys at Upton build him an absolutely fantastic instrument for $3500. I now wish I had that $1000 or had used it to upgrade his Upton even more. While I live in a part of the country with very low cost of living, I sometimes pay the price of being far away from great music stores. SO FINALLY HERE’S MY QUESTION! Granted it’s somewhat hypothetical. First of all you have a $2000 budget for a New, bolt on neck, Fender Brand guitar such as a Telecaster. Second, you know time, travel and things I’ve already mentioned are going to add up $wise. Would you 1) buy a $2000 higher end Telecaster off the internet, or 2) buy a $1000 max Telecaster from a music store after playing and comparing as many as possible. Any explanation as to why you would choose one or the other would be greatly appreciated.


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[marcwhy]

Your tele-quest for your son has been fascinating to watch!

What many of us tell "newbies" is often the same thing, and you've heard it before: if your son is just getting into jazz, buy a decent, inexpensive tele (which is the model you/he want), and play it for a few years. After that, he will know more about what he likes/dislikes, etc., in order to purchase a "nicer" guitar (IF needed!).

So, to your question: for you and your son, I would recommend an inexpensive guitar, and save your money for the next.

[Razorbackjazz]

Your tele-quest for your son has been fascinating to watch!

What many of us tell "newbies" is often the same thing, and you've heard it before: if your son is just getting into jazz, buy a decent, inexpensive tele (which is the model you/he want), and play it for a few years. After that, he will know more about what he likes/dislikes, etc., in order to purchase a "nicer" guitar (IF needed!).

So, to your question: for you and your son, I would recommend an inexpensive guitar, and save your money for the next.

Thanks for the advice. I guess it’s time for me to come clean with everyone before I get any more responses. I am not buying this instrument. My mom, His 75 year old grandmother is. I can afford the instrument but...I hope I can state this eloquently. Since SHE purchased the upright 3 years ago we have sat together watching him perform many times in both Orchestra and Jazz. She always comments on how buying that instrument was the best thing she ever did. When she spent $1500 on an American P Bass the same could be said. Patrick won a big talent competition at age 12 playing Anesthesia/Pulling teeth to a drum backing track. She takes real pride in being a part of his musical development. I am not shopping for a starter instrument. Nothing is guaranteed but one this is. He will never sell or trade an instrument that his grandma purchased for him as long as I’m alive. I seek to help him make a decision that will keep that thought from ever crossing his mind. I believe that his level of appreciation to her, even at this young age would keep him from ever doing it. Orchestra and Jazz is his life. There really is nothing else in terms of interest. I’ve tried to inject things into his life with little success. As long as he continues to make A’s and B’s I’ll just let it go where it goes. It’s really looking like he’ll be a music major. For better or worse. It’s taken a little prodding to get this all out there. I guess I’m a little self conscious that I let mom buy his instruments. It can be difficult to justify but I hope I’ve explained it well. Maybe someone who reads this has had a similar experience. At least I buy all the Amps and other gear!


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[fep]

Squire? I love my Squire Classic Vibe 50s tele. And I like to surprise people with a good sound, surprise when they realize it's a Squire.

My Squire strat is from around 1982 and is Japanese made. Some argue that the quality is higher than the American made Fenders at that time. My Squire tele I bought last year and is Chinese made. I'm impressed with the quality control of this build, as good as my Japanese Squire. The Squire tele is my most played guitar these days. Still, it's a Squire fender, not a Fender fender which may bother some.

My Squire strat was about $200 in 1980 if I recall correctly, my Squire tele was about $400 last year.

For some the Squire name in big letters on the headstock will be a turn off. Will that bother your son? Will he see a Squire as a starter guitar and soon be thinking of getting a "real" fender?

[Woody Sound]

I had a Squire bass and it was awesome.

[Hammertone]

I STRONGLY recommend you do not buy any instrument that has the name "Squire" on the headstock.
I suppose one with the name "Squier" on the headstock might be OK.
I think one with"Fender" on the headstock would be better.
And one with Hansen, Monty, Prairiewood, Kirn, Stuart, K-line, Creston, Kelly, Crook, Monterose, Rutters, LSL, Lentz, Hahn, Rocketfire, Nachocaster, Danocaster, etceteras, etceteras on the headstock ... would be super swell.

Because Fender does not and will not make a Tele or Strat with the simple specifications I prefer, I've ended up with fine instruments built in the Fender style by others, as well as partscasters assembled with parts from Warmoth, Musikraft, Mark Jenny/Wildwood and others.

[Razorbackjazz]

Having said all of that, I try to treat her money exactly as I would my own. I don’t want to spend any more than necessary but the fact that I want to at least try to find the perfect lifelong instrument remains. Looking back I probably could have just made a post saying “what are the specs of the Telecaster you would prefer under $2000 if it were to be used mainly for jazz?”


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[omphalopsychos]

Because it's grandma's purchase, I recommend getting the Fender. Even if the brand "should" mean nothing, in an absurd moralistic sense, it does have meaning because other people have opinions and there's nothing we can do about it. Other musicians may think he is less serious if he is seen with a beginner's budget instrument.

My advice to you is to write down all the specs about the Squier that you liked. What was the neck profile? Fret size? Nut width? Fretboard radius? Pickups? Then order the Fender closest to that online. Some people will tell you that every guitar is different, even the same make and model. I don't think that applies to Fender. Fender is essentially the IKEA of guitars, but in a good way. Any difference between a mail order Fender and the Squier you tried out will be attributable to setup.

[Razorbackjazz]

Squire? I love my Squire Classic Vibe 50s tele. And I like to surprise people with a good sound, surprise when they realize it's a Squire.

My Squire strat is from around 1982 and is Japanese made. Some argue that the quality is higher than the American made Fenders at that time. My Squire tele I bought last year and is Chinese made. I'm impressed with the quality control of this build, as good as my Japanese Squire. The Squire tele is my most played guitar these days. Still, it's a Squire fender, not a Fender fender which may bother some.

My Squire strat was about $200 in 1980 if I recall correctly, my Squire tele was about $400 last year.

For some the Squire name in big letters on the headstock will be a turn off. Will that bother your son? Will he see a Squire as a starter guitar and soon be thinking of getting a "real" fender?

I can relate. I have a couple Japanese made Charvels. A Model 4 and a Model 6. Great guitars.


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[morroben]

Would you 1) buy a $2000 higher end Telecaster off the internet, or 2) buy a $1000 max Telecaster from a music store after playing and comparing as many as possible. Any explanation as to why you would choose one or the other would be greatly appreciated.

2

$1000 is more than enough to get a very nice tele. The 'improvements' between a $1k tele and $2k tele will be minimal at most. And if you're sure he'll never part with it, that's even more reason for him to play the instrument before purchase.

I have spent most of my adult life doing instrument repair for a living. I put a lot of emphasis on quality and craftsmanship, both in my work and in the products I spend my money on. It sounds like the OP does as well. I'm also a tele fan, have owned several, and still own 2. To me, a tele just isn't the instrument to try to go high end with. It's a utilitarian instrument by nature, and is best left that way.

If it was me, and I was dead set on spending $2K dollars on the boy's jazz dreams, I would by a $500 tele and $1500 archtop.

[omphalopsychos]

2

$1000 is more than enough to get a very nice tele.

^That is a good point. You can get the Fender logo on there for less than 2k.

[Razorbackjazz]

Because it's grandma's purchase, I recommend getting the Fender. Even if the brand "should" mean nothing, in an absurd moralistic sense, it does because other people have opinions and there's nothing we can do about it. Other musicians may think he is less serious if he is seen with a beginner's budget instrument.

My advice to you is to write down all the specs about the Squier that you liked. What was the neck profile? Fret size? Nut width? Fretboard radius? Pickups? Then order the Fender closest to that online. Some people will tell you that every guitar is different, even the same make and model. I don't think that applies to Fender. Fender is essentially the IKEA of guitars, but in a good way. Any difference between a mail order Fender and the Squier you tried out will be attributable to setup.

The $1200 Squier title was only to make a point. That point was that I’ve spent many hours and threw away a lot money traveling around to music stores. I wonder if I’d be better of just going high end on the internet in the first place instead of going on long shopping trips in search of “bang for the buck”.


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[Razorbackjazz]

2

$1000 is more than enough to get a very nice tele. The 'improvements' between a $1k tele and $2k tele will be minimal at most. And if you're sure he'll never part with it, that's even more reason for him to play the instrument before purchase.

I have spent most of my adult life doing instrument repair for a living. I put a lot of emphasis on quality and craftsmanship, both in my work and in the products I spend my money on. It sounds like the OP does as well. I'm also a tele fan, have owned several, and still own 2. To me, a tele just isn't the instrument to try to go high end with. It's a utilitarian instrument by nature, and is best left that way.

If it was me, and I was dead set on spending $2K dollars on the boy's jazz dreams, I would by a $500 tele and $1500 archtop.

That makes perfect sense. The only thing I might interject is that his Jazz director just purchased an Eastman a few months ago. Patrick will have it at his disposal for the next 3 years.


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[p1p]

Get a MiM (Made in Mexico) Telecaster and be done with it. I think they call it the "Standard Telecaster".

Affordable, quality is good, Fender name on headstock.. can Grandma buy me one too please?

[ESCC]

For what it's worth - I bought a standard Tele 8 years ago in an ebay auction for $250, advertised to have a neck that plays like butter. - it does, a treat to play. I replaced the standard pups with Bill Lawrence hand-wound noiseless pups so I have approx $400 in the guitar. There is nothing the guitar lacks that makes me think I need to replace it with a $1,000 - $2,000 Tele . . . its a Tele and works perfectly like most Teles, even has Fender on the head stock. I own a Fender Strat, 2 Gibsons, a Heritage and an Eastman - my $400 Tele compares favorably with them all, its a Tele.

[Jim Soloway]

Given the generous budget, I have to ask why the Fender/Squier brand is so important? There are some excellent and reputable builders making amazing T-type guitars and they could put together something with every feature exactly the way you'd want it.

[Lobomov]

When I saw your first thread, I suggested a used us std, they've won't cost too much and can always be sold without a loss.


But now that you line it up as a lifelong present from his grandmother, I believe you can't give a squier.

I'd suggest an american pro tele if he is looking for a modern tele or an american original if a more vintage style tele has his fancy. I wouldn't go below an american special.

Neckprofiles, finish (poly vs. nitro) and looks/style are all a question of personal preference that I can't advice upon. With those models ordering online should be just fine.

Good luck hunting

[mrcee]

I've owned some good guitars and right now my main one is a MIM Fender Tele Thinline. Made in around 1999.
I've put a little money into set up, shielding and an upgraded neck pup. It's a great guitar and everybody who sees and plays it loves it. I think you can find them for under $500.

[lammie200]

I agree with Hammertone. I think that your son has graduated past an entry level brand like Squire even if he is new to guitar playing. His success with the bass seems to indicate that to me. That said, I wouldn't go whole hog into an expensive Tele. I would think that if you took a poll of the people here that have been playing for many years very few will say that they still have their first guitar. Some may wish that they still had it, but it may take a while to settle into the specs that your son will ultimately be happy with. As you noted before, those videos by Tim Lerch are very informative about the Road Worn Tele model. His opinions are a good basis for making decisions IMHO.

Also, I am not sure that you mentioned anything about an amp. He will need one. Just as important as the guitar IMHO.

(BTW, get your son to give up on the f-hole. It is a small thing in the bigger picture IMHO.)

[Razorbackjazz]

When I saw your first thread, I suggested a used us std, they've won't cost too much and can always be sold without a loss.


But now that you line it up as a lifelong present from his grandmother, I believe you can't give a squier.

I'd suggest an american pro tele if he is looking for a modern tele or an american original if a more vintage style tele has his fancy. I wouldn't go below an american special.

Neckprofiles, finish (poly vs. nitro) and looks/style are all a question of personal preference that I can't advice upon. With those models ordering online should be just fine.

Good luck hunting

So if I’ve been just trying to get someone to say what I wanted to hear, you’ve done exactly that. As a rule I would never consider buying a set neck guitar without playing it first. That is unless I’m ready to pay some return shipping. But an instrument such as a Telecaster seems fairly safe. Especially as you work up the price ladder. While it’s not always the case, I still believe you get what you pay for.


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[BigToe]

Your story is compelling and hits me on a couple of levels. Forgive me for projecting my own ideals onto your life, but It pains me to hear that you describe the time and money you spend searching for an instrument with your son as waisted. I am regretibly not going to have children and it sounds like the best thing in the world to be cruising around with my son or daughter on the hunt for a “holy grail” instrument. It’s an experience that I remember fondly when my dad did that for me. Being a teen I would search the used musical instrument ads in the paper and enthusiastically tell him I found one we should go see. Even though he worked like a dog to earn money and support his family, he would also support my musical aspirations and take me to places and buy instruments for me that encouraged my musical growth. Now that he is 90 I cherish those memories and regret I will never have the opportunity to do the same. I consider you very fortunate.
On another practical level keep in mind that your son is growing as an artist, not a collector. The instrument is only a tool. Having said that, it really depends on the personality of the player. I know some players who carefully cherish every inch of their instruments and get almost paranoid when others even attempt to touch it. Some players abuse the crap out of their instruments because there is something inside them that needs to come out. Obviously most people fall somewhere in the middle of those extremes but consider the possibility that the instrument is only a conduit for expression and may have to change depending on the direction your son grows as an artist. Telling him he must keep his instruments for life might actually be limiting his musical growth. Often the sale of one instrument allows the purchase of another to mature his identity. It sounds like something you don’t have to worry about for a while but don’t get too upset if he decides to take up violin. It’s all good!
Again, I’m projecting a lot here, sorry about that. Everyone has a different story and dynamic with their family, musical growth and personal journey. He sounds like a great kid and you a great dad for doing what you’ve done to encourage his musical growth.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Order a Squier online, $400 max. You can be relatively sure that the quality will be there.

[Razorbackjazz]

Your story is compelling and hits me on a couple of levels. Forgive me for projecting my own ideals onto your life, but It pains me to hear that you describe the time and money you spend searching for an instrument with your son as waisted. I am regretibly not going to have children and it sounds like the best thing in the world to be cruising around with my son or daughter on the hunt for a “holy grail” instrument. It’s an experience that I remember fondly when my dad did that for me. Being a teen I would search the used musical instrument ads in the paper and enthusiastically tell him I found one we should go see. Even though he worked like a dog to earn money and support his family, he would also support my musical aspirations and take me to places and buy instruments for me that encouraged my musical growth. Now that he is 90 I cherish those memories and regret I will never have the opportunity to do the same. I consider you very fortunate.
On another practical level keep in mind that your son is growing as an artist, not a collector. The instrument is only a tool. Having said that, it really depends on the personality of the player. I know some players who carefully cherish every inch of their instruments and get almost paranoid when others even attempt to touch it. Some players abuse the crap out of their instruments because there is something inside them that needs to come out. Obviously most people fall somewhere in the middle of those extremes but consider the possibility that the instrument is only a conduit for expression and may have to change depending on the direction your son grows as an artist. Telling him he must keep his instruments for life might actually be limiting his musical growth. Often the sale of one instrument allows the purchase of another to mature his identity. It sounds like something you don’t have to worry about for a while but don’t get too upset if he decides to take up violin. It’s all good!
Again, I’m projecting a lot here, sorry about that. Everyone has a different story and dynamic with their family, musical growth and personal journey. He sounds like a great kid and you a great dad for doing what you’ve done to encourage his musical growth.

He is definitely in the paranoid camp when it comes to taking care of his gear. While we don’t get to visit large music stores very often, we try to substitute product research in it’s place. I wish you could see his handwritten spreadsheet with the specs of every current production Telecaster. Each day we discuss the things we’ve learned. Product research is was led me this forum. It’s been very informative, but also contrarian at times. Even after all I have written there are still people telling me to just go buy a $400 guitar and call it good. That’s just not going to happen. I’m not spending all this time and effort seeking advice from people who have more experience than myself, to then just order a cheap imported guitar. It’s not that I’m a snob and I’m far from being rich. Some would say I overthink things. Luckily in my current line of work I have the time to overthink. I kind of enjoy it.


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[p1p]

I believe that's a Squier Bullet.. "cheap imported guitar"

[lammie200]

... I’m not spending all this time and effort seeking advice from people who have more experience than myself, to then just order a cheap imported guitar...

A definite point of pride in a first instrument is quality. There are some decent imports of all types, but if you don't need to go there don't bother.

What about that amp? Decent moderately priced domestically produced amps will be harder to find unless you go used/vintage.