a GOOD preamp for plugging into PA

[jorgemg1984]

my experience is that the AI is not a good candidate for amp modeling. You'd be better off with an alto TS210a powered cab. More power and transparancy

Exactly what I would expect, even without trying.

[jzucker]

Exactly what I would expect, even without trying.

another issue, the AI I had you could not bypass the tone stack because the effect loop was parallel with the bypassed signal.

[Danny W.]

another issue, the AI I had you could not bypass the tone stack because the effect loop was parallel with the bypassed signal.

This is simply wrong. Plug the guitar directly into the modeler and the output of the modeler into the effects return of the AI amp rather than the instrument input and the tone stack is bypassed.

Danny W.

[jzucker]

This is simply wrong. Plug the guitar directly into the modeler and the output of the modeler into the effects return of the AI amp rather than the instrument input and the tone stack is bypassed.

Danny W.

not on the model i had.

[rhoadsscholar]

Don't overlook the Tech21 Flyrig pedals (Flyrig 5 was the first). Even if you never use the PLEXI distortion section, it has a built in SansAmp with Reverb. Using just that effect (w/speaker emulation) is amazing. I put it in front of a quilter for clean jazz tones and it really warms up the sound (which starts out pretty good). They come in many different flavors now but it is small, light and give you other effects as a bonus.

Tech 21 Fly Rig 5 Multi-effects Pedal | Sweetwater

[BComp61]

I second the Ethos line. I have an Ethos Clean Fusion and my board and it's wonderful.
Preamp/Pedals

[Frank67]

The last couple of days I have tinkered a lot with various preamps into a Bose L1 PA system.

That included three different Tech21 options - a regular Flyrig, a Blonde and a Paradriver. They all sound good directly into the PA and much better with a decent cab sim afterwards. The Flyrig is an amazing deal IMHO. One gets the sansamp, a decent reverb, a decent delay (that doubles as chorus), a booster and a decent distortion. The thing is super small and light. I keep mine always in my Gigbag. If things go bad, one can go back ‚online‘ in a minute or so. It also sounds very nice into a poweramp and cab (I am pretty crazy for the Fryette powerstation - what a great piece of equipment!). Among the Tech21 offerings, I liked the blonde the least. Can‘t get my head around these highly interactive knobs. The other two were Much easier to dial in. They all sound somewhat similar.

Then I tried the Ethos clean preamp only to confirm again that I really don‘t like it. It sounds a bit dull to my ears with no sparkle in the top end and way too many counterintuitive knobs.

Then I had a Mooer UK gold preamp that is modeling a Marshall JCM 900. I got an ok tone out of the clean channel that was quite usable at rehearsal but the dirty channel sucked badly and completely drowned in a band setting. Also in the clean channel I could never dial out it’s harsh digital top end.

finally the AMT SS11a. This is a real tube preamp with 2.5 channels. It has two tubes. I changed the stock tubes to ones with lower gain since the unit was too grainy for me stock. I hadn‘t used it in a while since direct to the PA it was a bit meh because of the speaker sim. Now with the Mooer radar - Bingo - wow it sounded awesome. Couldn‘t stop playing for hours. The Radar was set to a 2x12 blackface twin reverb cab and 6L6 power tubes with high and low pass filters active that cut below 70 Hz and above 5.5 kHz (all easily configurable). The clean channel had all the chime, sparkle and response of a real tube amp and the distorted channels finally sound meaty and strong. It sounded nothing like digital, nothing. I‘ve only used the clean channel as platform for pedals and it rocks.

So the bottom line was that a tube preamp with the Mooer Radar Power amp and cabsim was an absolute winner and blew all the competition out of the water. Put that with a few mini pedals on a Pedaltrain Nano and one is good to go for pretty much everything. Perhaps a Kingsley pedal is even better than the AMT but they are really hard to come by.

I am not saying that this setup is better than high end modelers or the Kemper but if one has an aversion to fiddling with menus and a soft spot for pedal boards and stomp boxes (at least for me it is so much fun toying around with it) the tube preamp plus cabsim is definitely a viable alternative.

[feet]

yet another option- small, battery powered and does a whole lot if you can work the knobs. and 100% analog, for the luddites.

[jorgemg1984]

The last couple of days I have tinkered a lot with various preamps into a Bose L1 PA system.

That included three different Tech21 options - a regular Flyrig, a Blonde and a Paradriver. They all sound good directly into the PA and much better with a decent cab sim afterwards. The Flyrig is an amazing deal IMHO. One gets the sansamp, a decent reverb, a decent delay (that doubles as chorus), a booster and a decent distortion. The thing is super small and light. I keep mine always in my Gigbag. If things go bad, one can go back ‚online‘ in a minute or so. It also sounds very nice into a poweramp and cab (I am pretty crazy for the Fryette powerstation - what a great piece of equipment!). Among the Tech21 offerings, I liked the blonde the least. Can‘t get my head around these highly interactive knobs. The other two were Much easier to dial in. They all sound somewhat similar.

Then I tried the Ethos clean preamp only to confirm again that I really don‘t like it. It sounds a bit dull to my ears with no sparkle in the top end and way too many counterintuitive knobs.

Then I had a Mooer UK gold preamp that is modeling a Marshall JCM 900. I got an ok tone out of the clean channel that was quite usable at rehearsal but the dirty channel sucked badly and completely drowned in a band setting. Also in the clean channel I could never dial out it’s harsh digital top end.

finally the AMT SS11a. This is a real tube preamp with 2.5 channels. It has two tubes. I changed the stock tubes to ones with lower gain since the unit was too grainy for me stock. I hadn‘t used it in a while since direct to the PA it was a bit meh because of the speaker sim. Now with the Mooer radar - Bingo - wow it sounded awesome. Couldn‘t stop playing for hours. The Radar was set to a 2x12 blackface twin reverb cab and 6L6 power tubes with high and low pass filters active that cut below 70 Hz and above 5.5 kHz (all easily configurable). The clean channel had all the chime, sparkle and response of a real tube amp and the distorted channels finally sound meaty and strong. It sounded nothing like digital, nothing. I‘ve only used the clean channel as platform for pedals and it rocks.

So the bottom line was that a tube preamp with the Mooer Radar Power amp and cabsim was an absolute winner and blew all the competition out of the water. Put that with a few mini pedals on a Pedaltrain Nano and one is good to go for pretty much everything. Perhaps a Kingsley pedal is even better than the AMT but they are really hard to come by.

I am not saying that this setup is better than high end modelers or the Kemper but if one has an aversion to fiddling with menus and a soft spot for pedal boards and stomp boxes (at least for me it is so much fun toying around with it) the tube preamp plus cabsim is definitely a viable alternative.

Frank, really glad you found something that works!

Your thoughts match mine exactly: Tech 21 pedals are usable without being very impressive; the Ethos Clean is very underwhelming, had one on loan from a forum member for a few months and it was one of the least inspiring pedals I have ever tried; a good impulse response pedal, like the Mooer, beats any analog hi-cut pseudo cab emulation.

I've used a similar rig to yours for years - a Barb EQ or a Polytone preamp pedal, a Zoom MS70CDR or fx, and a Logidy EPSI for cabs. It's close to the high end modellers, at a fraction of the price.

Curious to try one of the AMT pedals, one day!

[christianm77]

I just want to confirm that the concept of preamp pedal into an AER works really well imo. I’ve started using this a lot.

It takes pedals etc very well too, plus you have a channel for a singer who is too bone idle to being an amp of their own (but whose gig it is :-))

Also the AER responds really well to things like the boss oc3 that like an extended bass range - better than my Princeton. I could imagine that also working well through a powered pa speaker.

[Frank67]

Thanks for the feedback Jorge!

Yeah, these days there really isn‘t a pressing need to carry big, heavy, loud, directional amps around and then mic them up given how good the compact (not only digital) technology got. The Mooer Radar really changed it for me in terms of pedalboards to go direct (before, I’ve done it with satisfactory results with the Kemper for quite a while. It is sometimes a bit overkill and there is also something satisfying in simplicity). Anyways, the Radar is every bit as good as the Torpedo CAB at a fraction of the prize and small fraction of the footprint. It will also load third party IR‘s if one doesn‘t like the stock ones (which are, however, quite alright in my opinion).

The AMT is probably more voiced for rock than jazz. I should try an archtop through it one day. It has a useable three band eq and a bright switch as well. The clean channel is certainly a bit Fendery blackface‘ish.

[jzucker]

ethos clean. Not as good as a modeling amp but still not bad.

I don't know why folks aren't jumping on the amplifire bandwagon for this. Nothing else is close under $300... Unfortunately, there are almost ZERO jazz demos.



This video is the bigger brother but the sound quality is the same. If I didn't have an ax8, I would get one of these. I may still do it for a practice amp...

[christianm77]

ethos clean. Not as good as a modeling amp but still not bad.

I don't know why folks aren't jumping on the amplifire bandwagon for this. Nothing else is close under $300... Unfortunately, there are almost ZERO jazz demos.



This video is the bigger brother but the sound quality is the same. If I didn't have an ax8, I would get one of these. I may still do it for a practice amp...

I haven't heard a online recording clean sound out of the Amplifire box I liked enough to invest... Have you tried one?

TBH jazz players are such small fry financially.

EDIT - actually that last video is quite a nice blackface tone... Probably comparable to the sans amp... Hmm.

[jorgemg1984]

The AF box uses the same modelling as the AF3, which I had and was not fond of the cleans modelling, at all.

Jack, the Ethos is a fine pedal but, for me, not worth the price tag - I enjoyed my "cheap" Barb EQ a lot more. But maybe I just like blackfaces more than dumbles

[jzucker]

I haven't heard a online recording clean sound out of the Amplifire box I liked enough to invest... Have you tried one?

TBH jazz players are such small fry financially.

EDIT - actually that last video is quite a nice blackface tone... Probably comparable to the sans amp... Hmm.

it blows away the sansamp. I had the red amplifire for a few days. I returned it. I didn't spend enough time with it and I hated the editing interface but the new pedal version seems like a no-brainer. I've heard a couple clean tones that I really like which make me think I can get a jazz sound out of it...And it also has a roland JC120 sound

[jzucker]

The AF box uses the same modelling as the AF3, which I had and was not fond of the cleans modelling, at all.

Jack, the Ethos is a fine pedal but, for me, not worth the price tag - I enjoyed my "cheap" Barb EQ a lot more. But maybe I just like blackfaces more than dumbles

The ethos doesn't nail the dumble sound as good as the kingsley and costs about the same.

[jzucker]

Here's an example of some clean tones (and some overdrive) from the amplifire. Cleans at 1:39. The guy who recorded this (sascha franck) is going to do a jazz tune later today

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g0zbqcckjg5nwqn/WTF.mp3?dl=0

[jzucker]

Here's another few examples.

[Doug B]

Jack-do you know what guitar is being used in the demos that you posted? Thanks.

[jzucker]

Jack-do you know what guitar is being used in the demos that you posted? Thanks.

no, i don't. I can ask him.

[Doug B]

Thanks

[joel65201]

[QUOTE=Frank67;863361]I think that probably even more important than the preamp is a good speaker simulation. The Torpedo CAB comes to mind. It is expensive though. The Mooer Radar also has Impulse Response capabilities, is tiny and will only set you back 140 bucks or so. Combined with a decent preamp, this will sound great with a PA.

About the Mooer Radar, will this work between guitar and PA, or is a preamp of some sort needed? I am happy to have my amp with me (an AI Corus, which sounds great--but doesn't mic well and its line out makes it sound just like a PA). So I have the choice of putting it between my guitar and my amp which is lined out to the PA, or just between the guitar and PA.

[Frank67]

Joel,

You will need a preamp of some kind.

The Mooer or similar devices will also replace your speaker in the amp and save you from mic'ing it (but it will not sound the same obviously).

If you go out of the power amp, you will need to have an attenuator before going into the cab sim because otherwise the signal is way too hot. If you have a line out on your amp it will likely carry some speaker emulation itself, often of poor quality and unsatisfactory results into the PA. This amp internal emulation would need to be disabled to make sensible use of a cab simulator. If you say that the line out of your amp sounds like a PA you maybe have good luck with a cab sim there, but check first that the output level of the amp is compatible with the input level of the cab simulator.

Good luck!

[Alter]

What i personally like about using simple pedals (instead of a rack or multieffect unit) is there's usually no lag and no compression whatsoever. They feel better to play through than most electronic stuff, especially for clean sounds.

[jzucker]

there's no lag with any of the modelers like the ax8, kemper, axefx, atomic amplifire