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Great guitar for the money you can play that without any issues. Sound is in the hands after awhile and get it dialed in play some tunes. Gold plated too that is a nice touch.
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11-17-2018 05:12 PM
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Is that a serial number on the heel? Can't quite make it out on my monitor.
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That isn’t a serial number. It was the stock number from the shop it came from. The original pictures when it was posted do not show that sticker there on the heel.
Originally Posted by pcjazz
I wish I had some solid provenance on this guitar. I suppose the important thing is it plays really, really nice and seems solid. Considering the pricing on the few Japanese Emperors I have seen, getting a once in a lifetime deal on the price is just delicious.
Does anyone here have any experience with them? This is my first Epiphone of any stripe. I was always a Gibson guy with a minor in Fender. I read that Terada was also where the Elitists were made. (And WOW are they beautiful.)
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Looks like you scored very nicely. That price is good even for a nice used Peerless made Broadway of the 3" thick body variety. I have one of those and it punches way above its class. I also have the Elitist Broadway which is enough L5ces mojo for almost anybody except those of us with Gibson Fever. I keep thinking I should sell my Elitist Broadway but then I take it out to shine it up and play it, and well, the urge to sell dies. Even the MiK/Peerless Broadway, which I put a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover pickup in for the neck, is a sweetheart.
So at your price you did way better than the MiK Broadway, and got pretty close to the Elitist Broadway. Well done!
What's the body thickness at the rim?
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Body is 2 7/8” deep. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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The only thing I'm still puzzling about with this guitar is the headstock. The nice Japanese Epiphones as I recall (could totally be mistaken) were made with 5 layer long-wise laminate or 3 layer long-wise laminate, no scarf joint (but sometimes a heel splice). I can't see any signs on the back of the headstock that the 3-layer long-wise laminate construction is being used. The typestyle on the front is the Japanese style, but the back of the headstock does look like a 3-piece construction. I can't tell anything about the back of the neck from the pics, whether scarf joint/heel splice are in use or whether the long-wise 3 piece lamination is in use.
These might not be characteristic of all Japanese-made Emperors or Broadways either, so I'm sharing this to see if others who know more might want to chime in.
Here's a pic illustrating what I mean about the back of the headstock. The 3 pieces forming the neck are clearly seen, and the "wings" on the side of the headstock as well. Again, different periods and runs could have different features. If so, then there might be clues here on the date of the guitar's manufacture.
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i have been puzzling over that exact thing. I’ll see if I can get a better picture of the scarf joint. Like I mentioned- I haven’t seen that on any other Japanese Emperor. That being said, there aren’t a whole lot of pictures to compare to, either. Every one I have seen is as you describe, though. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
The only thing I'm still puzzling about with this guitar is the headstock. The nice Japanese Epiphones as I recall (could totally be mistaken) were made with 5 layer long-wise laminate or 3 layer long-wise laminate, no scarf joint (but sometimes a heel splice). I can't see any signs on the back of the headstock that the 3-layer long-wise laminate construction is being used. The typestyle on the front is the Japanese style, but the back of the headstock does look like a 3-piece construction. I can't tell anything about the back of the neck from the pics, whether scarf joint/heel splice are in use or whether the long-wise 3 piece lamination is in use.
These might not be characteristic of all Japanese-made Emperors or Broadways either, so I'm sharing this to see if others who know more might want to chime in.
Here's a pic illustrating what I mean about the back of the headstock. The 3 pieces forming the neck are clearly seen, and the "wings" on the side of the headstock as well. Again, different periods and runs could have different features. If so, then there might be clues here on the date of the guitar's manufacture.
One other question- were the fretboards ebony or rosewood? I believe the Elitists are ebony, but the rest of them I have no clue.
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Here you can see the headstock is three pieces, but only at the outer edges.
And the heel splice.
I’ll get some other more detailed pictures. Like you- I’m curious.
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Fretnot, but that's NOT a MIJ Epi.
The absence of either a three-piece or five-piece laminated neck is an clear enough indicator to motivate my statement.
**PS: Edited for accuracy**Last edited by LtKojak; 11-19-2018 at 07:04 AM.
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Epiphone Emperor J's do in fact have heel splices, but not scarf joints. Every natural finish EEJ I've seen has the heel splice but yes, they also all have the 3 or 5 piece laminate neck (not counting the wings on the headstock). I've seen them with a 3 piece laminate and other with the 2 strips between making it 5 piece. Originally Posted by LtKojak
1991 Epiphone Emperor-J ($996) Sharpened Flat - Japanese Vintage Guitar
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Well, I haven't personally seen a EEJ with a 3-piece laminated neck and heel splice, only 5-piece and AFAIR they didn't have the heel splice, but as there's inquestionable photographic proof of the contrary, I graciously stand corrected and glad that I've learned something new. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Thank you for the input, Lawson. Much appreciated!
Yours very truly,
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I think you are right about maybe 90% of them. On those nice Japanese Epiphones and Arias, I look for a one-piece neck or the 3/5 piece laminate, no scarf joint or heel splice. The couple of heel splices I've seen have been just that, a couple, and I'm assuming they are real EEJs because of the vendors who displayed them, who seem honest and include the serial number sticker. I have no idea why some were heel spliced. Still the OP has one without that 5-piece headstock, and that is what has me thinking with you that something is not exactly right here. At what the OP paid, even if it's a MiK Broadway, it's still a nice guitar and a great buy! But I'd love to know the whole story on its manufacture. Originally Posted by LtKojak
Surely somewhere on or inside that guitar there is some indication?
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Continuing to puzzle... it looks like the "point" on the end of the fretboard is touching the pickup, or very nearly touching it. Maybe it's the angle of the photo, but looking at other EEJs on the web it looks like there is a noticeable space between that point and the pickup.
Here's a pic from a 1989 model:
ON the other hand, the picture of the back of the OP's guitar accentuates what a lovely recurve the back has, and I don't see that distinct recurve o the EEJs I have found online. It could be trick of lighting, but I tend to associate that nice, distinct recurve with carved tops and backs, though without much actual research to back up that impression.
I would love it the OP could pull a pickup and verify laminate or solid. I am nursing a little theory but I don't know what to think of it.
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I sincerely thank you all for the input, time and knowledge. I appreciate it more than you can know.
This is the best venue to unravel this mystery, so I would like to continue and try to find this lovely guitar’s origin. At this point, it is an anomaly and I sincerely want to find an answer. There is so little photographic evidence to go on outside of the examples on The Sharpened Flat’s website that it is maddening.
As Lawson mentioned, the sole example shown in a natural finish does, in fact, have a heel splice.
Are any pictures available anywhere of the internal components, wiring, etc? Any detailed pictures of internal
construction? The things I can compare externally -other than the neck construction- are still not adding up to Korean production.
I am absolutely not looking at this with a biased view of what I would prefer to see, but what actually “is.” So if it isn’t Japanese manufacture, what is it?
I have been looking at even the Tree of Life headstock inlays of Japanese vs. Korean models and they are demonstrably different. Forget the font for a moment and just look at the inlay- on Terada models (the 4 or 5 available) the individual components making up the Tree are obviously precut. The placement of each component is unique and some are even inverted, in some cases. They are all the same PARTS, though. The earliest Peerless examples I can find are from 1998 and they are noticeably different. They are close, but different.
I honestly love the guitar now, so it isn’t a question of hurting my fragile sensibilities. I’m keeping it and it is an outstanding player. With that said- hit me with what you got. I’m genuinely curious now.
And again, thank you!
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It is so obvious that (a) you love this guitar and (b) you are objectively interested in learning its provenance that I'm happy to add any thoughts or observations. Some people get defensive about such things, but you seem to be someone who can separate your enjoyment of the guitar--a great buy on ANY Epiphone model of that type--and the facts of its manufacture. I'm just wondering if there was any kind of marking stenciled on the inside, like Gibson FON labeling, or on the heel block inside. Maybe what do the undersides of the pickups look like? Any markings? Some EEJs have the "Patent Applied For" stick on the bottom of the pickup.
I enjoy tracking this kind of stuff down, and you are clearly wanting to figure this out, so it could make for some serious fun. Plus you have a beautiful well-made instrument that plays and sounds great, for a miraculously low price. I'd say you have won all the way around, regardless of what you learn.
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By the by- I haven’t pulled a pickup, but I have looked very carefully with a mirror and it is a laminate. Looks to be 5 ply.
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The neck pickup to fretboard point on mine sits the same as this one- Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Continuing to puzzle... it looks like the "point" on the end of the fretboard is touching the pickup, or very nearly touching it. Maybe it's the angle of the photo, but looking at other EEJs on the web it looks like there is a noticeable space between that point and the pickup.
Here's a pic from a 1989 model:
ON the other hand, the picture of the back of the OP's guitar accentuates what a lovely recurve the back has, and I don't see that distinct recurve o the EEJs I have found online. It could be trick of lighting, but I tend to associate that nice, distinct recurve with carved tops and backs, though without much actual research to back up that impression.
I would love it the OP could pull a pickup and verify laminate or solid. I am nursing a little theory but I don't know what to think of it.
Again, that same natural model from 1991 I think we are all referencing with the heel splice....
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I don't think I've ever seen any MIJ with a solid heel. That being said the wood grain on the neck and headstock reeks of MIK.
The logo on headstock is MIJ but everything else, including the rosewood board (colour) seem MIK. I think it's an early MIK. The scarf joint and the wood quality would do it for me.
Either way, you still got a good deal.Last edited by Archie; 11-19-2018 at 06:54 PM.
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The MiJ Epiphone Elitist Broadway does not have a heel splice, as seen in the picture below of one in natural. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
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I didn't know they were making the elitist stuff back in the early 90's? From what I remember most MIJ stuff before the elitist range had spliced heels. There were some exceptions but from what I remember it was rare to find a vintage MIJ or early 90's with a solid heel. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
It's been a few years since I really focused on guitars so I'm probably getting confused.
I thought The elitist Broadway had an Ebony not rosewood fb and the comparison in this case would be an MIJ Emperor.
Here is the neck heel of a 1991 MIJ emperor
Sorry for any confusion win my part.
Epiphone Broadway NA L 5 Copy 2005 Natural Guitar For Sale Vintage Guitar Oldenburg
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I was just responding to your comment that "I don't think I've ever seen any MIJ with a solid heel" and pointing out that some MiJ did have solid heels. I wasn't focusing on an era or model. I agree it looks like most of the MiJ Emperors I have seen, where it could be determined, had heel splices. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
I didn't know they were making the elitist stuff back in the early 90's? From what I remember most MIJ stuff before the elitist range had spliced heels. The Elitist range standing out somewhat.
It's been a few years since I really focused on guitars so I'm probably getting confused.
I thought The elitist Broadway had an Ebony not rosewood fb and the comparison in this case would be an MIJ Emperor.
Here is the neck heel of a 1991 MIJ emperor
Sorry for any confusion win my part.
Epiphone Broadway NA L 5 Copy 2005 Natural Guitar For Sale Vintage Guitar Oldenburg
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Lots of Japanese archtops, at least those with non-laminate necks have spliced heels.
This is a Vestax NYL-6.
And this is a 1970’s Ibanez 2461 (with a bonus strap button).
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2461 Nice! A rare bird! Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
Yeh that was my point.
Even the models you would have thought wouldn't, usually do (have spliced heels).
It seems to be their standard way of manufacturing, even for their higher end copies.
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Nobody's questioning that. The question is which ones. Someone said they'd never seen a MiJ that didn't have a heel splice, so i produced an example. That led to the helpful qualification of the "no spliced heels" claim to references to earlier models, pre-elitist. So as far as I'm concerned, that matter is settled. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
Lots of Japanese archtops, at least those with non-laminate necks have spliced heels.
This is a Vestax NYL-6.
And this is a 1970’s Ibanez 2461 (with a bonus strap button).
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Fair enough, but the Elitist has a 5 ply neck, and that was my point. The non-laminate guitars have had spliced heels and often scarf joints for a long time. The guitars I showed spanned 26 years. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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