How's your Epiphone Emperor Regent holding up?

[mozzfret]

Hi I'm new and from Perth Australia!
This is my archtop pursuit story so far.
Its been very difficult to even find archtops especially with floating pup in my city.
I have been to every music store and no-one has Eastman or Loar or D'Angelico or even Washburn archtops.
Basically only Epiphones, Ibanez and a few Gibsons.
I saw a few rockabilly guitars i.e. Godin kingpin (no one sells the jazz model tho i am very interested to try this and might have to buy one from Canada or USA and get it shipped) guild manhattan with whammy and i did see a ibanez AF71 once but now sold and discontinued.
At beginning was considering the Gibson ES-175 but after five guitars I am very under-impressed with what I heard, the guitars i played ranged from about 2005-2015 and to me were very average sound and build quality and pretty much all needing a setup and fret work! One 1989 model was quite nice but sadly the dealer wants $6k for it! A new Gibson ES-175 costs $7k.
But even trying hard I really just don't see $7k worth of guitar there, because for me at that price I want to 'fall in love' and i just hasn't happened with any ES-175 I've tried yet!
Anyway long story somewhat shorter I finally saw this Epiphone emperor regent hiding at the back of a locked glass cabinet in a back nook with only headstock showing so i asked the salesman to drag in out.
It played ok tho the owner wouldn't budge under $950 with a case. But i have been looking so long i was desperate and the forums mostly say its a great guitar so i thought I cant go wrong and should get most of my money back if i decide to sell it in a year or two, so I bought it.
Its a new peerless 2001 model (where did it hide for 15 years?)
But after buying it and playing it for four days I'm still not sure it is what i want.
Sure it's a excellent guitar for the money and has many fine qualities. With very bright singing single note and double notes sounds and it is even better played in open string keys with all the sympathetic ringing tho sounding quite plain in comparison in key of Ab for example.
But you really have to hit it hard to try and make it sound good.
Much more physical guitar to wrestle with than my fast action semi but rewarding...to a point.


What I was looking for is a guitar that i can play with my fingers doing my own arrangements of standards with chord and melody, just simple stuff ballads mostly though also play in jam band doing 95% chords.
My big issue with the regent is the bottom string is so dull and just kind of makes a thudding sound, and the 5th string is only slightly better.
However the 1st and 2nd strings shine like diamonds and that keeps drawing me back...but not to the style I want, only to different things, mostly folk-blues.
The dealer put new string on it the day i picked it up; DAddario nickel wound EJ22 13/56. (wound third)
I understand Daddario chromes might mellow the overall tone, i have never tried them though I have played thomastik flats on my flat top. But i have doubts they will actually be able to give the 5th/6th strings the deep mellow warm rich bass tones that I crave.
Detuning the 6th string to D gave the Regent a LOT more volume but not much more pleasant tone at all.
I also raised the action quite a lot which helped overall sound.


I am very new to archtops and basically my sole guitar for last 20 years has been my Ibanez Am-66 (Terrada 85) which i have setup low action with 11-48 EBalls.


I will probably keep the Regent for awhile because it's so different from what i am used to playing that i like it drawing me into different styles and ways of playing.
Will I need to look elsewhere for the rich bass I desire? Maybe the 5th avenue jazz?
or will I only find it in top of line models?
I never played a gibson L-5 for example, havent ever even seen one in a shop here, but rrp is $15k and i wouldnt feel comfortable carting an expensive guitar like that around tbh, so my limit is probably about $4-5k.
All $ mentioned are AUD. 1 AUD = 0.746519 USD

(having a lot of trouble trying to include a picture)

[hotpepper01]

Welcome !

Keep the Regent for a while and a couple of changes will make your Regent a lot better.

- flatwound strings
- half wood half TOM bridge
- Heavier tailpiece
- another pickup

I have a Regent as well (and a L5) and they are quite different animals. Heavy laminate instead of carved makes a lot of difference.
The Regent is very good bang for the buck. I use the flatwounds, have installed the L4 type tailpiece and half TOM bridge. Still have not made my mind up for which pickup woud sound better. Another modification that I did was putting on another pickguard for the reason to get the pot knobs out of my way.
I am curious what others will say about the Regent.

[Jabberwocky]

The Epiphone Regent is a nice guitar. What is it about the ES-175s that you have tried that you do not like? It might help to articulate what it is you find lacking and then we could all zero in on something that you like.

Have you tried the John Pearse Long D Acoustic-Electric Nickel Round-Wound strings? It has an extra long D string for the Frequensator tailpiece.

[vinlander]

In my opinion, a cheap thick laminated archtop like the Regent seems to struggle to produce anything great with a floater, at least the ones I tried : stock, Korean made Kent Armstrong and even the high regarded Bartolini 5J.
No matter what, it was always somehow bright, on the thin side and too boomy on the bass strings.
It was lacking the thick dark tone of a Gibson laminate I was looking for, problem was not the guitar per see, but what I wanted it to be I guess.
With that said, it gets plenty of love from fellow forumites here even in its stock form; it is just not the tone for me.
After having routed a classic 57 right into the top, I could make it closer to my goal ending up with a set in Vintage Vibe Charlie Christian in Humbucker form.
Bass are definitely more defined now and no longer boomy; the overall guitar tone is not so different however, because no matter what we can try to tweak, we are still stuck with the wood and construction; no thunk is really present neither.
Ironically after all that tinkering, these days I play it exclusively unplugged as its plugged in tone doesn't hold a candle to the Tal...

[Jim Soloway]

When you're used to solids and semi's, the switch to hollow bodies can be a serious shock to the system. They have a very different response to touch. Most hollow bodies have very little sustain and if you've built sustain into your playing style and technique, you're probably in for a very big adjustment. When I was gigging a lot, I gave up on archtops completely. Now that I'm mostly playing at home and recording a lot, I've gone back to them but no matter how fine the quality of the arch top I still find that I sometimes miss the responsiveness of a guitar with a solid core. That being said, I'd suggest just checking out some alternate strings but making no physical changes to the Epiphone until you've had a chance to play it for a while. Give it a chance and see if you are able to comfortably adapt to the basic nature of the guitar. There's no rule that says you can only play jazz on a full arch top and if really doesn't work for you, go back to your semi and don't worry about it. As you said, you can almost certainly get your money out of the Epiphone but that's only true if you don't make any serious changes to it.

[Cunamara]

I would second Jim's advice about giving it a bit of time to see if the two of you adapt to each other. There is a change in technique that you will catch on to.

I like the suggestion about the nickel strings- I find them to sound warmer and thicker than stainless steel strings like the D'Addarios you have. I also wonder, from your description of the guitar perking up when you dropped the low E to D, if the new strings are too heavy and are choking the top of the guitar through the tension being too high. I'd suggest trying 12s (or even 11s); my archtop doesn't like 13s except for TIs, which have less tension- about the same as D'Addario 12s. What I would do first is get some 12s and just swap the four bottom strings (which would give you the same tensions as the TI 13s, and you already like the sound of the 1st and 2nd strings). If you want big rich bass, roundwounds are probably the way to go.

IME suspended pickup guitars tend to not thunk very much- that is more the province of routed-in laminates like the ES-175, ES-350, Tal Farlow, etc. After much farting around with guitars for years, I finally realized that I didn't want the thunk for my playing. I love hearing it in others' playing, like Tal Farlow for example, but not in mine. For me, I want more of a Johnny Smith ringing type tone and thus play a carved top with a floating pickup. I think you can probably get that sort of thing with your guitar.

[Matt Cushman]

I am surprised that your E and A strings are so dead. You say your big issue is the bottom string is so dull and the 5th string is only slightly better. You may want to check your bridge saddle for those two strings. A bad saddle slot will effect every note from the string it supports.

[mozzfret]

Thanks for all the responses will get to all them later this seems potentially a quick fix though

I am surprised that your E and A strings are so dead. You say your big issue is the bottom string is so dull and the 5th string is only slightly better. You may want to check your bridge saddle for those two strings. A bad saddle slot will effect every note from the string it supports.

well the 5th and especially the 6th sit mostly on top of the saddle with 1-3 totally in the slot and 3 & 4 partially inside, same as on my semi.
when i first saw it it had .14 first string (the salesperson measured it) on it and all the strings were quite rusty!
new string and setup was part of the sale so if its wrong im sure i can take it back and get it adjusted

[newsense]

I am surprised that your E and A strings are so dead. You say your big issue is the bottom string is so dull and the 5th string is only slightly better. You may want to check your bridge saddle for those two strings. A bad saddle slot will effect every note from the string it supports.

Matt - what do good saddle slots look like?

I recently added a bone saddle to my archtop, but not sure whether i need to cut slots or just let the strings find their preferred positions.

[hotpepper01]

Have a look at my blonde Regent. When I bought my Regent, it turned out to have a backbow in the neck. The previous owner also had made the slots in the bridge deeper and not corresponding curve to the neck radius. So, I bought another bridge, a real Gibson TOM brigde - exactly the same as on my L5 - and put that on the Regent. It improved the sound a great deal. More sustain also...



Attachment 37791

[Matt Cushman]

The saddle slots are not cut the same as nut slots. Saddle slots are more like notches. Approximately one third of the diameter of the string should be the depth of the notch. When the notch is cut too deep or has been worn too deep by years of string tension and friction the string can be "choked" sometimes causing a buzz or a muted tone. The saddle on this Emperor Regent looks like all the notches are a little too deep. The fix can be as simple as filing or sanding down the top of the saddle. The saddle notch is a common source of bad tone that is limited to one string. It is best to cut the notches in a new saddle with a slight angle towards the tailpiece. To space the strings, locate the notches for the two outer strings first. Place the two outer strings so they follow the neck taper and are 5/32" from the outside of the string to the fingerboard at the last fret. After the first strings are located, measure the distance between the outside edges of the strings. Subtract the total width of the four remaining strings ( the total should be somewhere around .110" ) from the total distance between the strings and divide that figure by 5. That is the amount of space between each string. It helps to have a set of calipers for this task.

[newsense]

The saddle slots are not cut the same as nut slots. Saddle slots are more like notches. Approximately one third of the diameter of the string should be the depth of the notch. When the notch is cut too deep or has been worn too deep by years of string tension and friction the string can be "choked" sometimes causing a buzz or a muted tone. The saddle on this Emperor Regent looks like all the notches are a little too deep. The fix can be as simple as filing or sanding down the top of the saddle. The saddle notch is a common source of bad tone that is limited to one string. It is best to cut the notches in a new saddle with a slight angle towards the tailpiece. To space the strings, locate the notches for the two outer strings first. Place the two outer strings so they follow the neck taper and are 5/32" from the outside of the string to the fingerboard at the last fret. After the first strings are located, measure the distance between the outside edges of the strings. Subtract the total width of the four remaining strings ( the total should be somewhere around .110" ) from the total distance between the strings and divide that figure by 5. That is the amount of space between each string. It helps to have a set of calipers for this task.

I believe I'll need a new pair of glasses before I attempt that !

Is their any downside, tonally speaking, from not cutting the notches. The main problem, I guess would be the purely mechanical issues of the strings not staying where they are supposed to, which would impact on tuning, intonation etc. But, a dead string is more likely to occur from a notch that is to deep, not one that is too shallow - is that correct ?

[Matt Cushman]

Yes, the notches hold the strings in place. It varies from one guitar to another. The breakover angle has an effect on how much downforce there is on the bridge. A guitar with a low breakover angle has less downforce from the string and as a result the string is more likely to be dislodged from it's notch under heavy picking. Spacing the strings is easy. I have a headset with a magnifying glass and a set of gauged files and some calipers that I use. If you have the right tools it is an easy job. Just be thankful you don't have a mandolin.

[rlrhett]

FWIW I would suggest NOT cutting saddle slots. You can always add them, but I rarely do. If you are windmilling massive power chords or bending up minor thirds and there is an actual problem, then maybe notch the saddle. As Matt said, they are only there to keep the strings in place.

In my experience notches are only necessary with individual saddles (like a TOM) and very slinky strings. Then you might do an aggressive bend and slip a string off its saddle. On a bone or solid Ebony saddle I've never had a problem.


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[feral guitar]

Shouldn't one account for the different thicknesses of the different gauge strings for the inner widths?

[Matt Cushman]

shouldn't one account for the different thicknesses of the different gauge strings for the inner widths?

That is why you subtract the total width of the inner strings. The space between each of the strings is the same. You measure the space between the strings from the edge of the strings not from the center of the strings. The different thicknesses of each of the strings equals out the spacing.

[Herbie]

Hmm... Had an Emperor for some years, best thing I could do with it was to sell it. Got only 4/7 of its price, not a good deal but best I could get.

For me it had two major problems: the long (Fenderish) scale and a poor pickup. Long scale made the heavier gauges tough to play. In the same time it is stiff guitar so in a way it would need the heavy gauges!

I tried at least 6 or something pickups in it during the years. None got it right but all were better (fuller) than the thin stock pickup.

Moving to a Gibsonish scaled ES-165 was a heaven! But it had a floater too and not until i got a '59 RI VOS ES-175 I found the tones I was seeking. (Not right away, but anyway.)

You said You are new to the hollowbodies. They are tough, totally different animals. Like going back to history. And learning what is good and what is good for You in hollowbodies is not easy either. You just have to miss, miss, miss before You can hit!

I am a beginner too (after hollowbodying over a decade) in a country with no access to myriad of jazz guitars to test. I could never say in the guitar store if the guitar is good or bad. I need the strings I like, tweaking the pickup, maybe changing the bridge and tuners etc. After some weeks or months I could tell something about will it work. It is a tough love affair – but it is a love affair!

Good luck!

[sgosnell]

What I do for saddle slots is just tap the string. Get the strings where you want them, then tap the string directly on the saddle with something heavy enough to dent the saddle, but not enough to harm anything. I have a hammer with plastic peens that I use. It's not heavy and the plastic peens don't harm anything. I try to hit the string on the rear edge of the saddle, and certainly not on the front. You may need to change the strings after this, if you use a steel hammer and hit a little too hard. The strings shouldn't be down in a slot, you want it only deep enough to hold the string in place, and that doesn't take much. It's not that different with nuts, you want at least half the string to be above the surface of the nut, and the slot shouldn't be any deeper than that. It's common to see nuts with the slots cut so that the strings are a couple of diameters below the nut surface, and that's just wrong. It's a sign of laziness. Whoever cut the nut didn't bother to take the top of the nut down to where it should be. The proper method is to cut the nut slots to the correct depth so that the strings are at the proper height, then remove the nut and take the top down to the point that half, or a little more, of each string is above the top of the nut. That reduces friction by a lot, and makes tuning easier and more accurate. It's similar to how the saddle should be done, but the saddle slots should be even shallower, just enough to hold the string, and slanted slightly down toward the tailpiece, just as the saddle slots should be slanted down toward the headstock. Proper setup of the nut and saddle make a big difference in tone, playability, and tunability. Unfortunately, you seldom see either the nut or saddle done properly on a new instrument for sale in a shop. Time is money, and it takes time to get these done right. And speaking of nuts, an improperly cut nut slot will also cause a string to sound dead, or otherwise wrong, and IME this is more common than saddle slots. But either can be a cause.

[jazzbow]

Hiya Mozzie me ole mucker!

I too have an EER and I love it to bits (literally, took it to bits and set it up from scratch).

Have done a thread on it Epiphone Emperor Regent setup and tweaks (+ NGD)

As you can see there was a he'll of a lot of problems with the guitar but the neck shape and Fret work were good enough for me to dive in. It has what I would define as a crisp sound on the highs and a thunkish tone with the flatwound lows, not what you are looking for?!

A lot has been written here about boominess with guitars and finding the right sound through an amp.

At the moment I play through either an Ampeg GVT 15 which has a Baxandale tone stack (which boosts and cuts bass and treble) or a frankensteined micro cube through a phat bass keyboard speaker. The bax tone stack helps to cut the boom and the keyboard speaker shakes the room without da boom! Seriously! The micro cube does a good job. With my EHX pitch fork the EER sounds like a double bass, lol.

So I found it was a bit boomy in the beginning. The best way to cure that was to turn up the amp volume and turn down the guitar volume then dial in the guitar tone as a treble cut or bass boost to taste.

As you may have gathered from the link above l'm a bit of a tinkerer. Always tweaking to really personalise things.

So what have I done to Blondie lately?

I've changed out the pots to 500k vol and 250k tone logarithmic, put in a pio cap and introduced a system to swap over scratch plate/pickups.

The reason for swapping system is because two vintage single coils have come my way and I want to be able to change them over without fuss.

I'm part way through doing this and will attempt to make vids and pics for all to see.

Here's what I have done so far....


So here's the simple wiring system. Input earth and string earth are soldered together.

Already the sound is much improved, the loud amp quiet guitar set up is more refined with the tone but the volume sweep is incremental so past 7 on the dial it really drops back. I'll have to see whether I like that or not.

So it's still crispy sounding, which I will say is the spruce laying its mark, but the tone rolls off the highs and brings in the lows better and it suits my tastes.

So can you get rid of that thunk you're talking about from an EER?

well it's a laminate so no but its spruce and its got a floating pickup. That's one nah to two hmm's.

Have you tried pure nickel strings? They add some deepness to the sound more than plated.

[Jimmy Mack]

Great info here in this thread.

I have to agree that saddle slots can be a major source of dead or buzzing notes.
The saddle slots photo'd above by Mozzfret don't look healthy to me. Notice the wood burrs (look like crumbs) and the different depths for the different strings. The 1st string looks way too deep, and yet, that is the string giving you the least problem?

This can start costing time and money, but you may need a new bridge (TOM) to remedy your tonal problem. Different guitars = different pieces of wood and that mean differ. instruments require differ. remedies. My L5 CES has a TOM and I love it. I have changed bridges on guitars, and some improve the tone, and some don't. But I prefer the nickel plated brass saddles for TOM s. What comes stock on newer Epiphones is junk metal, and wears down really fast.

I'm not a user of wooden bridges, so I can't offer any advice there, except for properly cut (or not cut) slots. When slotting saddles, I use the hammer method, but USE old strings!!! Why kill a set of new $$$ strings. If you do that, you won't know if you still have a bad guitar, or the strings have been mutilated by the hammer!

Experiment, and buy good parts.

[mozzfret]

Great info here in this thread.

I have to agree that saddle slots can be a major source of dead or buzzing notes.
The saddle slots photo'd above by Mozzfret don't look healthy to me. Notice the wood burrs (look like crumbs) and the different depths for the different strings. The 1st string looks way too deep, and yet, that is the string giving you the least problem?

This can start costing time and money, but you may need a new bridge (TOM) to remedy your tonal problem. Different guitars = different pieces of wood and that mean differ. instruments require differ. remedies. My L5 CES has a TOM and I love it. I have changed bridges on guitars, and some improve the tone, and some don't. But I prefer the nickel plated brass saddles for TOM s. What comes stock on newer Epiphones is junk metal, and wears down really fast.

I'm not a user of wooden bridges, so I can't offer any advice there, except for properly cut (or not cut) slots. When slotting saddles, I use the hammer method, but USE old strings!!! Why kill a set of new $$$ strings. If you do that, you won't know if you still have a bad guitar, or the strings have been mutilated by the hammer!

Experiment, and buy good parts.

what does TOM stand for is it a brand of bridge?
I notice some wooden bridges on ebay only contact the sound board in two places, wouldn't my current bridge make better more even contact?
yeah maybe i can get a new saddle under warranty since the grooves are too deep?

[Herbie]

what does TOM stand for is it a brand of bridge?
I notice some wooden bridges on ebay only contact the sound board in two places, wouldn't my current bridge make better more even contact?
yeah maybe i can get a new saddle under warranty since the grooves are too deep?

TOM means tune-o-matic. It is a great invention of Gibson executive Ted McCarthy from 1956 – that's why the Les Paul Reissue 1954 has a wraparound bridge and 1956 Reissue has a TOM bridge.

Under the label TOM there is two kinds of Gibson bridges: ABR-1 (the original) and later innovation Nashville bridge. ABR-1 is "more authentic", with or without a retainer wire (it causes sometimes unpleasant buzz). Nashville bridge has more mass in it but it has more intonation adjusting space.

There is many TOM bridges available. Some guitars sound nice with cheap bridge and some with more specific ones.

I had a orgastic sound experience when I installed an ABM ABR-1 wireless bridge in my ES-175. So warm, so bright, so resonant! But as I said, depends on guitar and the sound You are after.

And if this is Epiphone, You need a metric part.

ABM

[mozzfret]

Hiya Mozzie me ole mucker!

I too have an EER and I love it to bits (literally, took it to bits and set it up from scratch).

Have done a thread on it Epiphone Emperor Regent setup and tweaks (+ NGD)
.

Hiya JazzBow!
yes i read your story on your emperor make-over before I posted here.
very very interesting, sadly I dont have the tools or skill to try anything like that.
But it's great reading about it and seeing the photos!
I think my mods will end with trying to get a new saddle and trying different strings tho i think there is a intermittent buzz from pup wire contact the soundboard, where it comes out its actually in full contact!

darn compact camera wont focus on the correct area!

[jazzbow]

Hiya JazzBow!
yes i read your story on your emperor make-over before I posted here.
very very interesting, sadly I dont have the tools or skill to try anything like that.
But it's great reading about it and seeing the photos!
I think my mods will end with trying to get a new saddle and trying different strings tho i think there is a intermittent buzz from pup wire contact the soundboard, where it comes out its actually in full contact!

darn compact camera wont focus on the correct area!

Thanks for your kind thoughts. Nice to know a bit of me is out there within internetland.
Just looking at that picture I can see a better lacquer job than my Unsung version.
There should be a sort of soft alloy bracket that the pickup wire goes through, just tease the wire through so it's not touching the top plate.

As for the bridge base not fully contacting the top plate that can be addressed too but the two point version you refer to will do and work.
If you want to improve the acoustic volume there's always a sound post.
It is a moot point whether theres any benefit for this but its only held in under tension so is easily removed. Google violin sound post and search on JG.be as well for further info

[Jimmy Mack]

TOM means Tune-O-Matic. Stewart McDonald sells some metric parts - it's where I got new TOM saddles for my Epiphones with TOM bridges (the saddles were crap from Epi).

Bought a $120 bridge made of steel, put it on my Epi "Lucille", and it became too bright and brittle sounding, but on my buddy's 59 RI Les Paul, it made the guitar sing while retaining the woodiness we did not hear with the stock Gibson bridge. Fortunately, he bought it from me. I put back the stock EPI bridge, but with the new saddles from Stew-Mac.