Broken Gibson L-5 Tailpiece

[skiboyny]

Hey everyone to make a long story short I took the strings off my Gibson L-5 flipped the guitar over and the tailpiece fell apart! I'm pretty horrified!

I know Gibson doesn't sell them and it's Saturday. I have a note and a phone message out to them I'm sure I won't hear from them till next week.

Can it be fixed? I can't be the first one to experience this...

[BigMikeinNJ]

Ski,

Sorry to hear that... Hopefully you don't have a gig to play at until you get it resolved. I know there are replacements on eBay, hard to say who charges more - those guys or Gibson... My regrets man...

Big

[ptchristopher3]

I have found that Gibson will respond if you have a VERY clearly legitimate need for a part, and are very persistent.

Brass hardens and becomes quite brittle when “cold-worked” such as when bending the tailpiece.

Fortunatelty breaks are fairly rare.

I hope you get the replacement part. I have received tailpieces (L4 and L5) without the decorative piece. So expect to need to swap this over yourself.

A fix would be a big and very expensive job including the nickel then gold plating over the fix. A metal expert could comment on the strength of the repair vs. the original “work hardened” bend.

Hope you get this solved.

Chris

[skiboyny]

Thank you Big

Ski,

Sorry to hear that... Hopefully you don't have a gig to play at until you get it resolved. I know there are replacements on eBay, hard to say who charges more - those guys or Gibson... My regrets man...

Big

[skiboyny]

Thanks for that info. This is a real clean L-5 70s I would hate to have to put something other than the Gibson part. I will be persistent!

I have found that Gibson will respond if you have a VERY clearly legitimate need for a part, and are very persistent.

Brass hardens and becomes quite brittle when “cold-worked” such as when bending the tailpiece.

Fortunatelty breaks are fairly rare.

I hope you get the replacement part. I have received tailpieces (L4 and L5) without the decorative piece. So expect to need to swap this over yourself.

A fix would be a big and very expensive job including the nickel then gold plating over the fix. A metal expert could comment on the strength of the repair vs. the original “work hardened” bend.

Hope you get this solved.

Chris

[fws6]

It can be fixed easily

I Have posted this at least half a dozen times here already

Luthiers will tell you the only possibility is to replace. But in fact a broken tailpiece can easily be welded & replated by a brass instrument (saxophone, trumpet) shop. Tailpiece is brass. Brass instruments from marching bands also get dropped and repaired all the time

Costs are very low much lesser than finding a new tail. On my older archtops it happened several times, I pay like $20-80 depending on the amount of work necessary.

And dont try blacksmith or a jewelers shop, they dont have the equipment for welding brass.

[Hammertone]

It can be fixed easily
I Have posted this at least half a dozen times here already
Luthiers will tell you the only possibility is to replace. But in fact a broken tailpiece can easily be welded & replated by a brass instrument (saxophone, trumpet) shop. Tailpiece is brass. Brass instruments from marching bands also get dropped and repaired all the time
Costs are very low much lesser than finding a new tail. On my older archtops it happened several times, I pay like $20-80 depending on the amount of work necessary.
And dont try blacksmith or a jewelers shop, they dont have the equipment for welding brass.

^This^

Simply to clarify meaning, brass is "brazed" not "welded."
Yes, this is a VERY EASY repair in the hands of a pro, specifically found in a brass instrument repair shop.

[QAman]

Hey everyone to make a long story short I took the strings off my L-5 flipped the guitar over and the tailpiece fell apart! I'm pretty horrified! I know Gibson doesn't sell them and it's Saturday. I have a note and a phone message out to them I'm sure I won't hear from them till next week. Can it be fixed ?? I can't be the first one to experience this..

Ski
Here is a Gibson contact that has been very helpful with replacement parts.

Terry.greene@gibson.com

If it was my tail pc. I wouldn’t waste time or money trying to braze the area- it will always be structurally suspect and you will worry about it.

[ptchristopher3]

Gents,

The brazing is one thing.

But getting it re-plated would be an involved process.

A polished brass TP or horn is not the same as restoring a nickel then gold plated TP after the horn guy brazes the pieces together.

In my opinion.

Chris

[ptchristopher3]

This TP is stamped, then bent. Then nickel plated, then gold over that.

I have only brazed steel, but the gold and nickel plating will not survive the torch work.

So you need a person to remove the plating and then do the two step nickel/gold.

I did once have a TP where they only re-did the gold plating and left the nickel alone. But that was to fix very minor wear, not a brazed line along the former bend.

[ptchristopher3]

HI Stephen,

I am not sure in the technicality here.

In USA English Brazing is attaching metals together with molten brass. But the metals attached are not melted.

So you could braze steel to steel, much like soldering - but notably hotter.

Welding is attaching steel to steel with molten steel.

I have no idea what to say about attaching brass to brass with molten brass.

And from Dutch who knows. Solderen for brazed steel, maybe half-English “brasseren”?

But brass to brass with brass is really welding (Lassen as i recall).

[ptchristopher3]

Anyway, if you do have it repaired could you please let us know how it works out , and possibly the cost involved if you get it re-plated per the original design?

Looking forward to your guitar being back in action.

Chris

[skiboyny]

Thank you for that info. I will see if it's at all possible to get a replacement that doesn't cost more than the guitar. Talked to one horn repair guy and he didn't sound to enthused!

It can be fixed easily

I Have posted this at least half a dozen times here already

Luthiers will tell you the only possibility is to replace. But in fact a broken tailpiece can easily be welded & replated by a brass instrument (saxophone, trumpet) shop. Tailpiece is brass. Brass instruments from marching bands also get dropped and repaired all the time

Costs are very low much lesser than finding a new tail. On my older archtops it happened several times, I pay like $20-80 depending on the amount of work necessary.

And dont try blacksmith or a jewelers shop, they dont have the equipment for welding brass.

[skiboyny]

Thank you very much for this contact. Email sent.

Ski
Here is a Gibson contact that has been very helpful with replacement parts.

Terry.greene@gibson.com

If it was my tail pc. I wouldn’t waste time or money trying to braze the area- it will always be structurally suspect and you will worry about it.

[skiboyny]

Chris I will absolutely post back on any resolve I manage to get. Thank you. The gold was close to perfect unbelievable for over 40 years old.

Anyway, if you do have it repaired could you please let us know how it works out , and possibly the cost involved if you get it re-plated per the original design?

Looking forward to your guitar being back in action.

Chris

[ptchristopher3]

Thank you for that info. I will see if it's at all possible to get a replacement that doesn't cost more than the guitar. Talked to one horn repair guy and he didn't sound to enthused!

Hey, mail the broken TP to the Netherlands with a $20 bill and see what happens?

*********************

Seriously, I am sure you will end up with a whole L5 in the end.

Pain in the ass for sure, but will be fine soon enough.

[lawson-stone]

Thanks for that info. This is a real clean L-5 70s I would hate to have to put something other than the Gibson part. I will be persistent!

What I'm puzzled about is whether that's a real Gibson tailpiece. I think Gibson used the "Varitone" tailpiece, with a little hole at the bottom for adjusting a spring-tension device, up through about 1975. Even when they quit putting the spring-tension thing under the tailpiece, the little hole with its decorative rosette remained. I'm not seeing that on the picture posted here. Now, Gibson could also be very inconsistent in its parts, too; so I'm not certain. But it's worth looking to see if it's made of brass or some other metal.

[Hammertone]

What I'm puzzled about is whether that's a real Gibson tailpiece. I think Gibson used the "Varitone" tailpiece, with a little hole at the bottom for adjusting a spring-tension device, up through about 1975. Even when they quit putting the spring-tension thing under the tailpiece, the little hole with its decorative rosette remained. I'm not seeing that on the picture posted here. Now, Gibson could also be very inconsistent in its parts, too; so I'm not certain. But it's worth looking to see if it's made of brass or some other metal.

Incorrect info.
When they quit putting the spring-tension thing under the tailpiece, the little hole was removed, but the decorative rosette stayed. Also, the correct name is not "spring-tension thing," but "top-cracker thing." Here's shot of a Furutama #1-honourable-top-clacker thingy and a real Merkin L-5 tailpiece sans hole.

[Hammertone]

Hey, mail the broken TP to the Netherlands with a $20 bill and see what happens?
*********************
Seriously, I am sure you will end up with a whole L5 in the end.
Pain in the ass for sure, but will be fine soon enough.

You brazen hussy, you...

Hi Stephen,I am not sure in the technicality here. In USA English Brazing is attaching metals together with molten brass. But the metals attached are not melted. So you could braze steel to steel, much like soldering - but notably hotter. I have no idea what to say about attaching brass to brass with molten brass.
And from Dutch who knows. Solderen for brazed steel, maybe half-English “brasseren”?
But brass to brass with brass is really welding (Lassen as i recall).

Good point.

[QAman]

Hammertone,
Here is a pic of my 2014 Gibson L5 - purchased new - with the hole still present in the tail pc

[ptchristopher3]

You brazen hussy, you...

Har-har.

When guys see a well worn L5 tp, the larger areas of gray-colored metal is the plating under the gold top layer.

[Hammertone]

Hammertone,
Here is a pic of my 2014 Gibson L5 - purchased new - with the hole still present in the tail pc

My bad - I should have been more specific: when they ORIGINALLY quit putting the top-craker thing under the tailpiece, which took place n the mid-1970s, the little hole was removed. I don't know when it reappeared.

[skiboyny]

Sure looks legit to me. Got the little serial number etched in the back.

What I'm puzzled about is whether that's a real Gibson tailpiece. I think Gibson used the "Varitone" tailpiece, with a little hole at the bottom for adjusting a spring-tension device, up through about 1975. Even when they quit putting the spring-tension thing under the tailpiece, the little hole with its decorative rosette remained. I'm not seeing that on the picture posted here. Now, Gibson could also be very inconsistent in its parts, too; so I'm not certain. But it's worth looking to see if it's made of brass or some other metal.

[fws6]

Heres a Frequensator that snapped on the bend. It was broken all the way through. It was welded by my sax guy. On the right you can still see it is a bit rough, on the left it is not visible at all.

[johnnyjazz]

Try and get a replacement if you can, as well as the uncertanty of the repair lasting, if you get it re-plated then the matt engraving will be almost lost.