Seventy Seven Guitars

[Archie]

Yes, look for the the JT moniker. Means “Japan Tune-Up”, I believe—built elsewhere, maybe a final setup in Japan?

For what it’s worth, there’s a Seventy Seven Hawk Jazz Deep for sale on this forum for a great price. I have the single neck pickup, one-piece mahogany neck Standard Deep (maple top vs spruce top on the Jazz variant) and it’s a really nice guitar. I installed a hb-sized P-90–basically the same idea as a mid-50s ES-175. I have an Exrubato Jazz with the spruce top and that is also a very nice guitar.

I can’t speak to the quality of the JT models but I love my made-in-Japan Seventy Sevens.

Yes I'd noted this nomenclature but the Japanese refuse to say what it means apart from 'Japan Tune Up' and re-sellers don't seem keen on telling you either, or are simply claiming they are MIJ.

Ex.

[Archie]

Ok so If the Hawk is called a STD but does not have the 'JT' suffix, it's MIJ.

The JT range is AIP.

Thank you all.

Confusion over.

[John A.]

What is going on with Seventy Seven's pricing?

I just went to buy a second hand Hawk STD for the same price as a new 'deep' one from Japan. Shops seem to sell the Hawk STD for about £2000 ($2000) and claim they are "hand made in Japan" yet if you go to a Japanese website, they are selling them for $1150 and that's for the deep one in colour not black.

Surely Seventy Seven aren't producing hand made ES-175 type guitars for $1150 retail?

I suspect but cannot find any evidence that these 77 models are made outside of Japan or at least the parts are because there seems to be two different levels of pricing. The ones we would expect to be hand made in Japan usually sell for $2500-$3000 plus.
77 have started a new series called the 'Tune Up' series which contains these very low priced Hawks etc.. but I don't know where they are made.

I've been in negotiations with someone over a Hawk STD (not the one listed here) and have found the new prices are less than what he wants second hand.
No doubt he bought the guitar from a shop in the UK called 'The Guitar Den', who have the Hawk STD (black) at £2000!!

Can someone who knows what's going on, please advise. Are importers putting a 50% mark up on Seventy Seven Std's?
Are they made in Japan?
Are they hand made as is being claimed by UK and US importers?

Thanks

As near as I can tell, they're not making many Hawk series guitars in Japan right now, if any (see here:
SeventySeven Guitars | ブランド | Deviser ｜株式会社ディバイザー｜長野県松本市のギターメーカー). I think you can infer from the Deviser site that the ones marked "Aska-Made Series" are MIJ, and the others are not (iirc, the Phillipines)

It looks like they're not exporting the MIJ variants. (see here:
Bobs Fine Guitars! | Reverb ). So if you see one listed as new MIJ outside Japan, I'd be skeptical.

I bought my Hawk Jazz about a year ago used for $1500 on Reverb (never seen a 77 in any US brick and mortar shop). New ones were listed for $2250 by a US dealer, but I don't think any were actually available. They seem to have become even more scarce since then.

I find the nomenclature for the Hawk series very confusing. Names I've seen in listings (off the top of my head) are Hawk, Hawk Standard, Hawk Jazz, Hawk Jazz Deep, Hawk Deep, and Hawk STD/Deep. And there even more on the Deviser site.

The label inside mine says Hawk Jazz (with no "Deep" or "Standard" on the label or anywhere else) and "made in Aska factory Nagano". The headstock says Hawk, with Jazz on the truss rod cover.

It has a single humbucker and pearl block inlays (I read somewhere that mine is one of two custom made with these features). It's 3-3/8" thick at the rims, 24.55" scale length, 5-piece maple neck, 16" lower bout, laminated maple back and sides, laminated spruce top, ebony fingerboard. The fingerboard extension sits on the top for most of its length, sort of like a Johnny Smith, instead of mostly well above it like a 175/165. I think the Hawk Deep is spec'd more like a 175 , and I think the Hawk Standard is a thinner body. Don't know about specs for the STD/Deep.

I suspect anything selling new for under $1500 is not MIJ, most, likely a Hawk STD/Deep, but maybe called a Hawk Deep or Hawk Standard out of honest confusion about model names (or deceptiveness). In any discussion with sellers I'd ask for pictures of the label and headstock, and lots of detailed questions about specs.

[Archie]

As near as I can tell, they're not making many Hawk series guitars in Japan right now, if any (see here:
SeventySeven Guitars | ???? | Deviser ?????????????????? ??????????). I think you can infer from the Deviser site that the ones marked "Aska-Made Series" are MIJ, and the others are not (iirc, the Phillipines)

It looks like they're not exporting the MIJ variants. (see here:
Bobs Fine Guitars! | Reverb ). So if you see one listed as new MIJ outside Japan, I'd be skeptical.

I bought my Hawk Jazz about a year ago used for $1500 on Reverb (never seen a 77 in any US brick and mortar shop). New ones were listed for $2250 by a US dealer, but I don't think any were actually available. They seem to have become even more scarce since then.

I find the nomenclature for the Hawk series very confusing. Names I've seen in listings (off the top of my head) are Hawk, Hawk Standard, Hawk Jazz, Hawk Jazz Deep, Hawk Deep, and Hawk STD/Deep. And there even more on the Deviser site.

The label inside mine says Hawk Jazz (with no "Deep" or "Standard" on the label or anywhere else) and "made in Aska factory Nagano". The headstock says Hawk, with Jazz on the truss rod cover.

It has a single humbucker and pearl block inlays (I read somewhere that mine is one of two custom made with these features). It's 3-3/8" thick at the rims, 24.55" scale length, 5-piece maple neck, 16" lower bout, laminated maple back and sides, laminated spruce top, ebony fingerboard. The fingerboard extension sits on the top for most of its length, sort of like a Johnny Smith, instead of mostly well above it like a 175/165. I think the Hawk Deep is spec'd more like a 175 , and I think the Hawk Standard is a thinner body. Don't know about specs for the STD/Deep.

I suspect anything selling new for under $1500 is not MIJ, most, likely a Hawk STD/Deep, but maybe called a Hawk Deep or Hawk Standard out of honest confusion about model names (or deceptiveness). In any discussion with sellers I'd ask for pictures of the label and headstock, and lots of detailed questions about specs.

Thank's for the info.

I've gone ahead and purchased the Hawk STD. We'll see when it arrives if it is made in Aska. It should be written on the label, so fingers crossed.
The sellers claims it has "Japanese quality" and strongly alludes to it being made in Japan. HE also linked to Devisers YouTube channel..

If you check the description below the video, it says 'Askamade Series'. I'm hoping that's not more clever marketing from Japan to mean 'Made In Philippines" lol.
From what I can tell, if the truss rod cover has "Standard" written on it, that separates if from thee JT series which is just blank.

[John A.]

Thank's for the info.

I've gone ahead and purchased the Hawk STD. We'll see when it arrives if it is made in Aska. It should be written on the label, so fingers crossed.
The sellers claims it has "Japanese quality" and strongly alludes to it being made in Japan. HE also linked to Devisers YouTube channel..

If you check the description below the video, it says 'Askamade Series'. I'm hoping that's not more clever marketing from Japan to mean 'Made In Philippines" lol.
From what I can tell, if the truss rod cover has "Standard" written on it, that separates if from thee JT series which is just blank.

I guess you'll have to wait and see. Please keep us posted (I'm curious to see how this plays out).

[wzpgsr]

I have the 2013 catalog. Not a mention of “Deep” on the Hawk page. Not sure when they were introduced. I thought for some reason mine was older than 2013.

[rhl-ferndale]

As near as I can tell, they're not making many Hawk series guitars in Japan right now, if any (see here:
SeventySeven Guitars | ???? | Deviser ??????????????????????????). I think you can infer from the Deviser site that the ones marked "Aska-Made Series" are MIJ, and the others are not (iirc, the Phillipines)

It looks like they're not exporting the MIJ variants. (see here:
Bobs Fine Guitars! | Reverb ). So if you see one listed as new MIJ outside Japan, I'd be skeptical.
.

Good luck with the purchase.

It just occurred to me that Bob on Reverb is almost certainly the JGO member Top of the Arch, possibly the best North American resource for Seventy Seven questions.

If you have Hofner questions, Hammertone is the JGO Hofner guru. Think of Bob as the JGO 77 guru. He should be findable on JGO, but reach out via Reverb message if you like.

[Archie]

Good luck with the purchase.

It just occurred to me that Bob on Reverb is almost certainly the JGO member Top of the Arch, possibly the best North American resource for Seventy Seven questions.

If you have Hofner questions, Hammertone is the JGO Hofner guru. Think of Bob as the JGO 77 guru. He should be findable on JGO, but reach out via Reverb message if you like.

Much obliged.

[jim777]

Be aware, the "JT" (Japan Tuned) doesn't cover every Seventy Seven, the Albatross models made in the Philippines and finished in Japan are called the "JE" series.
Like this one: https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop5155/DS07244105/

[Archie]

Be aware, the "JT" (Japan Tuned) doesn't cover every Seventy Seven, the Albatross models made in the Philippines and finished in Japan are called the "JE" series.

I feel like Paul Atreides, when he has to put his hand in the witches box.
Or when Flash Gordon puts his hand in the glory hole.

I seem to have made both those sentences sound incredibly sexual.

[Archie]

I guess you'll have to wait and see. Please keep us posted (I'm curious to see how this plays out).

I expect the guitar to be MIJ and sound and play very much like a Westerly Guild SF2.
One of my fav sleeper jazz guitars.

[jim777]

I feel like Paul Atreides, when he has to put his hand in the witches box.
Or when Flash Gordon puts his hand in the glory hole.

I seem to have made both those sentences sound incredibly sexual.

It's almost like Deviser decided they could afford to ruin the reputation of one of their brands, and just clos4ed their eyes and went "Eeny, meeny...." I wish they had waited until I had my Japanese Exrubato first! But it may be the JT/JE instruments are amazing, I just haven't seen one myself. In fact, the only Seventy Seven I've ever played is the one I own, bought sight unseen off Reverb.

[Archie]

It's almost like Deviser decided they could afford to ruin the reputation of one of their brands, and just clos4ed their eyes and went "Eeny, meeny...." I wish they had waited until I had my Japanese Exrubato first! But it may be the JT/JE instruments are amazing, I just haven't seen one myself. In fact, the only Seventy Seven I've ever played is the one I own, bought sight unseen off Reverb.

I expect the JT and JE stuff to be frighteningly good.

If one came up for £500 used I would take a punt.

[John A.]

It's almost like Deviser decided they could afford to ruin the reputation of one of their brands, and just clos4ed their eyes and went "Eeny, meeny...." I wish they had waited until I had my Japanese Exrubato first! But it may be the JT/JE instruments are amazing, I just haven't seen one myself. In fact, the only Seventy Seven I've ever played is the one I own, bought sight unseen off Reverb.

I keep thinking of the old Isuzu commercial where a bunch of Japanese car execs are sitting around a conference table offering up different ridiculous names for a new model. One goes "Chicken!" another says "Ostrich!" (or something, I don't remember all of them), etc. Then the big boss says "I-Mark", and the rest chatter confusedly "I-Mark? I-Mark?" The boss repeats "I-Mark" and then the rest echo sycophantically/enthusiastically "I-Mark!" Had to have been something similar at 77 with these names.

I'll echo that my 77 is a fantastic guitar (bought sight unseen off Reverb as well).

PS: I just wrote to Bob's Fine Guitars on Reverb, and he wrote back saying they've started building Albatrosses in Japan (cue Monty Python references ...) and are gearing up for other models.

[jim777]

I think Headway was started in 1977, but I'm not sure.

[Zhahn]

Tried a few JT 335 copy models at a dealership in Asia.
They were the sub $2000 Custom and Standard models.
Terrible guitars on every level.
Perhaps the high-end models are better, but I’d have to wait till my next visit to Japan.

[Archie]

Tried a few JT 335 copy models at a dealership in Asia.
They were the sub $2000 Custom and Standard models.
Terrible guitars on every level.
Perhaps the high-end models are better, but I’d have to wait till my next visit to Japan.

Interesting

[Archie]

Can we have a prefix for an NGD that wasn’t to be? And if so what would that prefix be?

The 77 Hawk std I bought through eBay ended up going back.
The seller described it as ‘mint’ but it turned up looking like it had been in a back street brawl with a bunch of alley cats.

That aside I thought the guitar was pretty good. It’s a small bodied thin-line in the style of a Guild SFII.

The guitar is resonant for what it is and has good sustain (no centre block).
There is a slight oddity in that the neck angle to the body, means the bridge has to be wound all the way up and then some, for the strings to clear the frets.

The neck join is not the most attractive, it is flawlessly done but looks almost like a bolt on and I didn't find the neck carve, to be on the same level as an Ibanez GB, for example.
It felt like it was trying to be chunky. Hard to explain but that's what I thought at the time.

The fit and finish is on par with any other Japanese product and it felt premium.

In comparison to the Ibanez Af200, the Ibanez is more luxurious and better value for money (both costing £2k).
77 are a devision of Deviser, and with 77 you are likely paying a premium for a smaller team, that offers a more traditional luthier experience. If you like that idea, then the 77 has that appeal.
Are you getting a better guitar for the price compared to an MIJ Ibanez? I would say potentially but you are sacrificing on spec and I didn't find the luthier experience in this case, offering any more quality in either production or sound.

It is a good guitar and I would really like to get my hands on a model higher up the range.
That being said I would rather have a used Guild SFII for roughly the same money as the 77 Hawk STD (used). Both are light a delicate but the SFII uses nicer woods and has a slightly deeper sound.

Worth noting that the GSFII is just under 17” wide and the 77 is around 16”.
This of course means the Guild comparison is not totally fair.

[John A.]

Can we have a prefix for an NGD that wasn’t to be? And if so what would that prefix be?

The 77 Hawk std I bought through eBay ended up going back.
The seller described it as ‘mint’ but it turned up looking like it had been in a back street brawl with a bunch of alley cats.

That aside I thought the guitar was pretty good. It’s a small bodied thin-line in the style of a Guild SFII.

The guitar is resonant for what it is and has good sustain (no centre block).
There is a slight oddity in that the neck angle means the bridge has to be wound all the way up and then some, for the strings to clear the frets.

The neck join is not the most attractive and I didn't find the neck to be on the level of an Ibanez GB, for example.
It felt like it was trying to be chunky. Hard to explain but that's what I thought at the time when playing it.

The fit and finish was on par with any other Japanese product and it felt premium.

In comparison to the Ibanez Af200, the Ibanez seemed more luxurious and better value for money (both costing £2k). Perhaps a point worth adding is that although 77 is owned by Deviser, with 77, you are likely paying a premium for a smaller build team, that considers itself offering a more traditional luthier experience. If you like that idea, then the 77 has that appeal.
Did that experience come out in the final product, compared to a more ‘mass produced’ Ibanez? I actually couldn’t tell.
This could be for two reasons.
1) The STD is a base model and is priced reasonably competitively.
2) I don’t have a big enough sample size to compare.
What this does mean though, is that 77 can put together a guitar, really well.
Are you getting a better guitar for the price? I would say no. You are however sacrificing on spec.

It is a good guitar and I would really like to get my hands on a model higher up the range.
That being said I would rather have a Guild SF2 for roughly the same money (used).
Imo the Guild SFII is a better guitar in all aspects.

Worth noting that the GSFII is just under 17” wide and the 77 is around 16”.
This of course means the Guild comparison is not totally fair.

That's too bad. Did you at least confirm that it's MIJ? Beyond that, the neck issues you describe surprise me. The angle on my 77 Hawk Jazz (Deep? Not certain which I have anymore) is fine and the joint looks perfect to me. In terms of profile, mine feels fairly chunky, but it doesn't have much taper; it feels similar all the way up.

Mine also has pearl block fretboard inlays, fancy headstock inlays and a very pretty sunburst in (I think) nitro. It has a lam spruce top, so (body shape and some spec details aside) it's in a similar niche to the AF200 in terms of build quality, appointments, and sound. I got mine for $1500 (US), which was much less than AF200s were going for at the time. At that price.

By all means come on over and try it, and bring your AF200 to compare. It's only about an 8 hour plane ride from the UK to NY, and we have egg creams here.

[Archie]

That's too bad. Did you at least confirm that it's MIJ? Beyond that, the neck issues you describe surprise me. The angle on my 77 Hawk Jazz (Deep? Not certain which I have anymore) is fine and the joint looks perfect to me. In terms of profile, mine feels fairly chunky, but it doesn't have much taper; it feels similar all the way up.

Mine also has pearl block fretboard inlays, fancy headstock inlays and a very pretty sunburst in (I think) nitro. It has a lam spruce top, so (body shape and some spec details aside) it's in a similar niche to the AF200 in terms of build quality, appointments, and sound. I got mine for $1500 (US), which was much less than AF200s were going for at the time. At that price.

By all means come on over and try it, and bring your AF200 to compare. It's only about an 8 hour plane ride from the UK to NY, and we have egg creams here.

Thanks John.

Yes it was an Aska made model.

You've managed to pinpoint my feeling about the chunkiness of the neck. It's because it doesn't taper. To me that feels somewhat crude but it might be normal outside of my experience. It could also mean the neck is easier/quicker/cheaper to carve. It was not a bad neck though.

The neck join was flawless but in regards to how it looks, it has no finesse. Like when you look at a cheap guitar and the neck just joins the body as a matter of fact. Hard to explain lol. It almost looks like a bolt on. Perhaps because the guitar is a thin-line, it has that appearance.

The 77 Hawk STD and AF200 are roughly the same price used at this point or in the UK. Might be £200 difference depending on what type of negotiator you are.

I think the 77 'deep' would be a very nice sounding guitar. The STD seemed to have a nice delicacy about it.

I could come over to NY or you could come down to Martinique. Let's decide by who has the better view from their living room.
I'll go first!