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I'm a big Gibson fan, but their PR sometimes makes me roll my eyes. The whole fret-nibs, undercut frets "innovation" etc. reminds me of how they publicized the "solid formed" guitar. If you look at their original ads for the carved body L5, they are virtually contradicted by the claims they made about "solid formed" tops where the "grain is continuous" or something like that. Made it sound like carved tops were actually bad because they cruelly chopped off the grain in places. The old carved-top ads said "Gibson tops and backs are not bent, soaked, or heated—they are carved from solid blocks of the finest material nature creates... Gibson tops vibrate freely and evenly..." Compare with the solid-formed ad copy for a real collision.
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01-18-2018 07:20 PM
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So yes Gibson dabbles in making non f*(&ed up frets, and somehow spins it into a total pant load.
I fart in their general direction.
Seriously, it is profoundly unfortunate that they can not take a few simple steps to make a nice guitar consistently.
There is a new post here from a guy who imported a Sadowsky from Japan to Italy. Do you think there is anything whatsoever that is not superbly designed and built and finished and set-up on that guitar?
Is he making excuses for tilted pickups and sliding E strings off a cliff due to poor technique?
Are the braces unglued in places?
Is the body interior filled with Titebond splooges?
Is there dirt and odd spots under the finiush around the nut?
Is the finish an “orange peel” mess around the headstock perimeter?
Is he regretting the effort to get the guitar to Italy?
Or did he tune up and start playing?
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Sometimes I can't tell if I'm hanging out with philosophers or comedians
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Could be both....
Originally Posted by Longways to Go
Sometimes I can't tell if I'm hanging out with philosophers or comedians
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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hey, you never know when your gonna need to brush in an emergency and because of the heightened sense of urgency, you accidentally blast a hole out of the side of your cheek. The duct tape will plug up the hole in no time. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
JD
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I ended up with a good figured cherry 335 the first try. Then encountered problems with a couple of the ES Les Paul's (same problem you describe having the high e fall off the end of the fretboard. It must be a trait of the latest Memphis batch of 2016 and 2017
I had a different guitar with a similar problem. It took a nut change and having the frets filed to take off a bit on the high e side of the neck.
Basically a fret dressing to address the problem. It worked out and it plays great.
On one guitar I had my luthier suggested the neck wasn't properly fitted to the body (that one went back right away). You should plan on the fret dress and new nut to fix it right. you will be good for life after that.
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Originally Posted by ptchristopher3
You nailed, IMO, most of the issue with this fret work: cost cutting or, in other words, maximization of profits, which is legit means - just within reasonable limits. In a near perfect guitar world, the frets had to be prepared one by one, cut to length and rounded on the ends before hammering or pressing them in, then fixed with glue over the whole length for the best possible contact to the fretboard.
The huge success of the acoustic guitar is based on its (alleged) simple construction. In these times, however, it seems that more and more people (I include myself), and even global acting companies, are becoming the submissive victims of IOED, the Illusion of Explanatory Depth (Edge.org ).
My country, Germany, probably a shithole since the year one, is full to bursting point with examples of IOED. Companies like Porsche, with cars that I once revered, have been transferrred into banks with affiliated automobile production. Not that cars or guitars or any other commodities would matter in this aspect on a global scale. We all know that paradise is a personal thing.
My soul, my soul, all disturbed by sorrows inconsolable,Bear up, hold out, meet front-on the many foes that rush on you
Now from this side and now that, enduring all such strife up close,
Never wavering; and should you win, don't openly exult,
Nor, defeated, throw yourself lamenting in a heap at home,
But delight in things that are delightful and, in hard times, grieveNot too much — appreciate the rhythm that controls men's lives.
- Archilochus, archaic Greek lyric poet -
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Hi Ol’ Fret. I hope you are doing well.
Deep breaths there big guy. And you are up at 3:30 AM writing this?
We live in a world full of great guitars.
Some even feel that a few are made by Gibson - which I do not understand, but there it is.
Actually some of the most clearly personal attention to fret ends I have ever seen was on Hofners made by Hubert Kaa and Thomas Stulein (sorry if I goofed the names up at all, going on memory) during the past ~15 years or so.
As for IOED, I suppose we could instead explain nut compensation (and it is really not hard). But that would put the crowd to sleep vs. the bite-size discussion at hand.
In my opinion.
Chris
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I've never seen an OP get so much help in my days on the forum. Lucky guy! I'm going to remain silent, as there is sufficient input.
Nice guitar. Everything is going to work out!
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Originally Posted by ptchristopher3
Thanks, Chris, I'm fine! I was just venturing to grieve in representation of some other folks - though nobody of us can be sure that the war in our bodies or brains hasn't already started. And you know that in a real dark night of the soul it is always three o'clock in the morning.
Yes, Höfner has always had some great luthiers, and Karl Höfner is said to have been a caring entrepreneur. On the other hand, I can see some space for improvement especially on their archtop guitars - vintage, that is - to get rid of a tad of the nasal sound range on some, not all guitars, and some other minor quirks. And I'll never forgive when they started to make the 471, the successor of the flagship 470, with a laminated spruce top! He-he, Hammertone, a good guy, will kill me now, but it's evident that his virtual attempts of assassination must even have failed when he, or somebody else from Höfner, shut down the former European Guitar Forum.
Nut compensation - in fact that was the cue when watching the very first image of this thread. Think of how much round-wound strings will groove into even the hardest and most precisely made bone nut (it could happen that dead and living bone is something I'm familiar with - yes, I'm a real bone-head!), changing not only the contact point on the sloped, radiused nut slots over time, but also the height in relation to the fretboard! Plastic material could help, but if it doesn't suck tone to a certain extent, why don't they go on making full acoustic plastic guitars a la Maccaferri, an economical procedure without a big fuss?
I feel happy that about 90% of my guitars have a zero fret.
That said, the OP's new 175 can easily enough be transformed into a well playable and good sounding guitar that can get him further on the musical road. I just would'n expect the 175 to be the omnipotent guitaristic philosopher's stone, neither design-wise nor with regard to the actual Gibson production quality.
And if someone claims in earnest that there would be only three basic archtop concepts in the world, the ES-175, the L-5 and the Super 400, I'd wish him more historical awareness, more global wanderlust and a whole heap of alertness - and say 'good luck'!Last edited by Ol' Fret; 01-19-2018 at 07:10 AM.
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Ovidius, I bought a used guitar recently. Not a Gibson but a nice luthier made guitar. The headstock cracked all the way through and was improperly glued together. The guitar buzzed on certain notes. I got it for about the price you paid for your CME Floor ES-175. I sent it back to the luthier who made it. His/Her suggestion was to give it a new neck and a refinish. The cost was $2000 to give it a new Spanish Cedar neck, new frets and refinish, reusing the Gabon ebony fretboard and tuning machines. It was and is a very nice guitar and I opted to save it even though I knew that I would not recover the $2000 repair cost in a resale. It was just too nice a guitar not to want to fix it.
That is just me though. The CME Floor Gibsons are basically priced at the market value of used Gibsons and I see them as used Gibson guitars. With any used guitar, if it requires new frets to make it playable, I will do it. If it requires new fretboard binding I will do it. The wear and tear is priced in.
If you had paid the going street price for a new one ($3899) I will be first to agree that it is absurd to consider paying $1000 to fix it. For the $2000 to $2200 that you paid you will still be paying below the street price for a new ES-175 even with a $1000 fix-it-up bill.
CME will be ahead to foot the repair, either partial or full. You negotiate this part. This is how the costs mount up for CME and you when you return it:
1) CME shipping both ways: $350 x 2 = $700. Plus a surplus guitar with issues that still has to find a new buyer.
2) Foreign exchange losses for you: 5% per transaction x 2. About $250 plus $70 bank fees = $320. You will take this hit because banks have to make a profit. That is assuming that the USD has not depreciated against the Euro at time of exchange.
3) CITES permits. CME $60×2 = $120. You €60 x 2 = €120.
4) VAT refund minus Customs processing fees. Count on losing €50 for causing Customs some paperwork on issuing refund.
5) Trip to Customs, two hours of your time at €300 an hour = €600.
6) Boxing it up, one hour of your time at €300 an hour.
So, you see, the costs mount up. Take it to a luthier and get it done to your satisfaction with grained Ivoroid binding (screw historic accuracy) and hold the lacquer (scrape and wax it) Jescar EVO Gold FW47104 or 55095, no nibs and be there.
Play the bejaysus out of it, sell it for €1500 with your improvements. That shall be your Gibson ES-175 education.
Keep a cool head and see your tech first. Work it out with CME. You may not find another ES-175 at this price.
Ivoroid Guitar Binding Strips | R&F
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Or, you could just acquire a Seventy Seven Hawk Jazz for even less than the CME offering, which, together with Sadowky, has the best QC on the market today. You can ask Jzucker, he owns more than one, IIRC. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Done! Live happy ever after and all that...
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I don't know why it is so but it seems as if there are no specs available on the Seventy Seven guitars like lower bout size, scale length, weight, pickups installed, finish (nitro or lacquer) fully hollow or semi hollow? It makes no sense that there are absolutely no details on these.
Of the two U.S sellers I know of, neither are forthcoming on details. Weird.
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I've said this before Gibson has always shipped out guitars with playability issues. This is nothing new in fact I expect it. They expect it to be resolved on the dealer level. I assume (I could be wrong here) that they pay the dealer a warranty claim largely based on the work necessary. I have had Gibson be involved in approving warranty work. Now most would argue with this based on price of the instrument, this should be, that should be, bla bla bla.The fact of the matter is they have become a music icon with this recipe. The bottom line is with some set up work "most" Gibsons will play and sound great and they have proven the test of time. In the end I think it takes time to dial in a guitar for you personally. It might not be right, you might say it should be done differently but this is how it's always been. I like the guitars in the end. Not at first but in the end. I keep buying them. We make our choices.....
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5) Trip to Customs, two hours of your time at €300 an hour = €600.
6) Boxing it up, one hour of your time at €300 an hour.
If the guy is charging that hourly rate then i do not think he is the type to buy a cheap guitar.
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work 10 hours and buy a new one!
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We're stand-up philosophers. Originally Posted by Longways to Go
Sometimes I can't tell if I'm hanging out with philosophers or comedians
John
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there is a way to minimize losses caused by foreign exchange, bank fees etc. It's called transfer wise and one pays approximately 0.5% fees, while the exchange rate is better than any bank would do. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
check it out! Transfer Money Online | Send Money Abroad with TransferWise
I recently did a payment with them. It works very well.
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Better fx rates than from banks also available with xe.com
Some judicious shopping around the net will identify at least a dozen good alternatives to banks....
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Darn shame CME shipped this guitar overseas without properly inspecting it. That was just wrong. Now the buyer has to spend more money fixing the guitar, or lose money returning it. No matter how you slice it, that's just not right.
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Chibsons? Wow. If they were Chibsons, that'd be fraud on an major scale. It'd be a real kick in the head for the professional collectors. Originally Posted by LtKojak
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If they were chinese knock-offs, we'd already know it. there are tons of sites that show how to spot the knock-offs. Also... Chinese could make better guitars than some of these have been. Mine were wonderful, most were excellent, but some were truly awful by the reports we got. Originally Posted by BeBob
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I am actually very curious how and why these things happen. Do they actually have people playing the guitars to inspect them? So they have tolerances that are being ignored upon inspection or incredibly wide tolerances that allow the poor guitars to pass? Do they know that these guitars are being put out for sale for thousands of dollars or are they unaware (I am guessing with the amount of people posting about it that they probably know but how many people or stores actually contact Gibson about it)? It is just very bizarre. They want that premium price and when I think of other brands that charge a premium for the name on the product they are usually very particular about the perceived quality.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Hi Bebob,
Of course they are the genuine output of the Memphis facility.
And Buzz Aldrin really was on the moon as well.
There is no fraud.
CME presents a legitimate product to an incomprehensibly forgiving customer base.
There is some remarkable variation in quality from one guitar to the next.
But that is nothing (in my opinion) compared to the variation in the willingness, of one given buyer to another, in accepting the quality of these guitars.
In my opinion.
But really, they are “genuine”.
Chris
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Hi Rio,
I started doing Gibson warranty work in 1978 or ‘79, I forget.
I dropped out of the business for quite a while, but stayed familiar with the market.
From my first days in the late 70’s until now Gibson have presented a consistently inconsistent, slovenly attention to detail and fitness for any purpose whatsoever.
None of this is anything new at all.
Like you, I also consider it all bizarre.
But people buy them and revere the brand name.
So in a sense I completely understand why they would not spend anything at all on the actual fitness for making musical noises from their guitars.
Some manage to sneak though in a usable form.
So if you can buy and return easily, it can work.
But for some player in the EU (as I think the OP is) to expect a single guitar from Gibson to be shipped to them ready for gigable use, it is a long shot.
In my opinion.
Chris
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