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JD you will not see a present day Gibson with bracing problems or sunken tops. Gibson tops are rock solid now.
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10-16-2015 03:36 PM
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Thanks buddy.
Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
I was concerned about the HJS which I think is a 92 or a 94. My 165 is a 90's model too, cant remember what year.
The JP is 1980. My L7c is an early 2000. I guess I should know more details. I cant remember anything anymore. Between all this Joe Pass/Johnny Smith stuff I play and being susceptable to left hook when I was a kid, my brain has turned into scrambled eggs.
JD
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Heritage uses a very stout top bracing as they carve their tops very thin. I have never seen a 80's to present Gibson with a collapsed top. Kerf braced tops are the only ones I have seen. Even if the kerf braces are not broken they are just not stable. They are about as stiff as a rubber hose. This is another reason new Gibson's are so heavy. They are wooden tanks now.
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Got it.
What type of bracing was used on Real D'Angelico's?
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my barney kessel has some type of buzzing coming from the inside. I'm taking it in tomorrow to have it fixed. I'm hoping it's just the wires and not the bracing coming loose. Maybe that's why it sounds so good! Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
It does have some top sinkage but seems to be stable.
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that's because the gradually stiffened the tops on all their archtops after the humbuckers started causing the tops to sink. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
Not sure exactly when this happened but the 80s ones are definitely a little heavier and more stout but they still sound better than the new ones...Not sure entirely what the reason is...
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Jack, I hope it's just a change of seasons pickup spring problem. I noticed that on my JP last week. Off came the pup and on went the rubber tubing. Bravo! No buzz!
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mine's been buzzing since I first bought it but I've never wanted to part with it. However, I'm getting my Heritage eagle back tomorrow from getting the new pickguard installed so I'll be using it for a couple weeks and then i'll get both BKs back! Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
Unfortunately, i've been working 60+ hours a week at my engineering job and doing some photoshoots so I'll have to make time to play these!
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Yea, my 60s BK sunk into oblivion back in 1986. I used it anyway on a jazz record date, and it sounded like crap. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
I had to get rid of it.
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I did notice a slight increase in sustain indeed. I do recognize what you mean with more precise. Also more punch and 'thunk' (there it is again :-), but that might also be the P90. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
This is what my soundpost looks like:
I think I'm actually becoming a fan of sound posts.... But my other main instrument is an ES-333, so maybe it's no surprise
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Aren't violins made using a sound post? I may be wrong, but I thought that placing and shaping a sound post was a big part of making a violin sound the way it ought to.
Orville Gibson was trained as a violin-maker, I believe, and in a way, isn't an archtop really a big type of violin?! (Maybe I'm oversimplifying something, but it appears the violin guys might have been onto something.)
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The entire violin family--violin, viola, cello, bass--uses sound posts. A violin would have less volume without one. A bass--which is basically falling apart from the time it leaves the factory--would collapse without one.
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There are differencies between the violin family and traditional archtops. The sound post is one of them. But then, the sound of the violin is different - and is produced differently - from the archtop. The violon is not intended to sustain as a guitar is. In fact the idea of bowing was to "emulate" wind instruments - tone sustaining as long as the bow is moved on the strings and dying fast when the bowing stops. On plucked instruments an amount of sustain after the picking is desirable.
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So I checked out my friends es175. It looks like it has a changed bridge it looks like. Would you guys take a looks at these pics at let me know what you think of the bridge, and top arch? Those Zucker threads of the caved in 175 top make me think I need to check this stuff!
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Nice Mahogany ES-175, an underappreciated "non-historically correct" ES-175 whose latent appeal is coming to the fore.
Looks like a Schaller roller saddle bridge which was a quite popular replacement in the late 70s and 80s.
As for the top, my opinion is that as long as the kerfed tone-bars are not broken, the string action is good, and the floating bridge is well-fitted to the top there is not much to worry about. I don't know what an ideal "correct" arch looks like on an ES-175. My concern is that a sunken top is a tell-tale usually of broken tone-bars or weakening tone-bars on the verge of breaking. I won't worry about it looking "flat" as it doesn't tell much by itself.
Can you get it inspected by a qualified luthier? It will be worth the expense. I bought a 1966 Epiphone Howard Roberts Custom that I was told required a neck reset and I went for it. It was well worth it.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 04-15-2016 at 01:28 PM.
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I had an ES 175 where the bridge ended up against the bridge pickup (like the one in the picture).
It can be a challenge dialing in the intonation if your saddle adjustment is maxed out.
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I'm sure there are some 175's w/sunken tops, but don't always just sight where the bridge rests, see a dip and assume it's sinking.
when inspecting for sunken tops I'll sight the edges of both f holes and see if they are on the same plane.
often on a guitar that has a sunken top, the inner edges of the f holes will be on a lower plane than the outer.
in my opinion, the guitar pictured doesn't have a sunken top.
w/ a tune o matic installed, you'll likely be able to back the bridge away from the pickup.Last edited by wintermoon; 04-15-2016 at 01:40 PM.
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It sure sounds super dark and smoky, very thick. It's a joy to play, that is always a good sign right? Hard to put down. Can someone tell me what a good use price would be for a guitar like this? It's not in perfect condition But doesn't have any cracks or major damage
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As far as the top sink goes, look to see if theres any travel left for the bridge to be raised. With a stock Gibson ABR its pretty easy to tell but with a changed bridge the dimensions may be different. Generally, being 100% stock if the bridge is raised as far as poss. before slipping off the studs the top has "sunken" or the neck angle isnt correct. Thats if the action is too low. Theres room for making adjustments either up or down on the bridge to allow for the players height prefference. if it cant go higher or lower without a problem, it needs to be looked at by a repair man. I have had quite a few come through the shop that looked questionable but were fine. Where you live will dictate price for the most part, look around on the net a bit and you should get a decent baseline for prices. Bob
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It does not appear to be a collapsed top. Typically the bridge would be raised to compensate for the drop of the top. That bridge is not much higher than the pickup. Shallers are great bridges, but might be overkill for that guitar, unless he's bending strings like crazy or planing on adding a Bigsby. I would go with an APR style or rosewood bridge.
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I had one of those about 1980 or so. Very nice guitar as stated.
Mahogany is a beautiful wood and a great tone wood. I got some old mahogany salvaged from a boat interior and have made quite a few things out of it, including 2 clocks and a living room table.
Looks OK to me, the pickup height seems a bit high especially the bridge. Need a TOM bridge of course. One thought might be to look inside with a mirror to make sure the braces are OK and intact.
On Reverb the 80's models seem to be about $2500-2700, but that seems high for me. I have seen some in stores for the low $2000's.
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Don't mean to derail, but is it normal for the bridge to be that close to the PUP?
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That top looks perfectly normal for an Es-175. They have a double hump on that issue and the bit under the tailpiece always looks higher than the bridge. It's just an optical illusion, from what I can see anyway.
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If it is an early Mahogany ES-175 it probably has T-top humbuckers too.
Guesstimate: $2000 to $2200 with T-Tops would be fair to both parties.
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I think the top is probably fine, but I'd have a luthier look at it for a setup. He can check the braces at the same time.
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