Why Gain Control on Guitar Amps?

[neatomic]

pre-amp gain?? isn't that what volume pots on the guitar are for!!!???..want less gain?? roll back your guitar volume pot!

cheers

[docbop]

I look at these new Mesa Boogies, Marshalls, and digital amps and laugh at all the knobs. It reminds me of the big component audio fad of the late 70's and 80's and stereo gear kept getting more knobs because most the buyer more knobs must mean it's better. One thing has always been true "simple is good". Simple circuits are cleaner sounding, color the signal less, and so on.

Scott Henderson in his multitude of gear rants and guests talking gear point out. Pre-amp is where the great some came from in the classic amps, it the power stage being pushed that the great tone come from. It's pushing those power tubes that has the sound. The hi-gain amp to me just sound like a cheap distortion pedal. Scott personal belief is the best sounding amps are 100 watt models cranked till backend is singing. He will say they are too dam loud to be in the same room with them so he records from the booth or he runs a power soak with speaker IR. But they are the old basic no frill amps circuits and turning the amp to point all parts are running at optimal level and sounding good.

This why so many use little amps they can crank to get the circuits running at their sweet spot. All electronic has a minimal level it needs to run at to sound as designed, and an optimal level that makes it sound it best. The real answer is time working with whatever gear you have and where the minimal and optimal levels are for that piece of gear. It's all seat time in the shed just like improv.

[sgosnell]

All the pots interact. The volume and tone on the guitar, and the volume, gain, and all the other knobs on the amp. Preamps need a certain signal level to sound their best, and it's different for different preamps. Rolling the guitar volume off too much can give poor sound. Everything has to be balanced.

[Skip Ellis]

I guess it just comes from many years of playing pedal steel - I want clean, clean, clean. Webb, Evans, and Peavey were the weapons of choice. Originally, I had a Twin Reverb with 2-12" EVMs, then Peavey came out with the Session 400 and the tube amps were left in the dust. Then came Webb with 500 watts of pure, adulterated clean into a 15" JBL - Evans, too. On the C6th neck when you dump a .072 gauge down to low A on a pedal, you need something that will handle it. I guess i'm looking for a guitar amp that gives me that kind of clean.

[sgosnell]

Well, I think you just answered the question of what you want. It's legally permissible to use and Evans, Webb, or Peavy with a standard guitar.

[Greentone]

Ah, the Session 400. That was a big, clean amp, for sure. If I saw one locally (not unlikely, given where I live and the local musical tastes) I would probably pick it up. I don't need one, but nostalgia, etc. It might very well displace my old Lab Series L-5.

Then, again, I really no longer need an amp with that kind of girth and volume. I don't believe I have gigged with anything louder than my Bassman in years.

However, the Session 400 is one great, _clean_ amp.

[neatomic]

in it's day, nothing cleaner than a standel.. with a jbl 15"...made for pedal steel and guitar...





later 70's ultralinear fenders are also insanely clean..a super twin reverb with six 6l6's..can get mighty loud, mighty cleanly!! hah

the pedal steel fellows are all about the loud clean amps..tune into them for ideas

cheers

[neatomic]

All the pots interact. The volume and tone on the guitar, and the volume, gain, and all the other knobs on the amp. Preamps need a certain signal level to sound their best, and it's different for different preamps. Rolling the guitar volume off too much can give poor sound. Everything has to be balanced.

i get u...but where does it end? mesa boogie went that route 40 years ago...3 gain stages...how many are using those amps for jazz these days?

great vintage tone is based on the fact that guitar pots & amp inputs interacted....many amps had a simple one tube gain stage circuit with just volume or volume and tone max...but sounded great cause they matched with the guitars circuitry

if rolling back your guitar pots, makes your amp sound bad, then you have a mismatch!!

cheers

[sgosnell]

Most are mismatches, and the wiring design in the guitar is usually bad. But no matter what, you have to get an adequate signal level to the preamp, and that required level varies a lot from amp to amp. Without enough signal in to the preamp, you have a hard time getting enough to the power section, and it doesn't reach its sweet spot. Lots of amps sound less than heavenly with the guitar volume rolled off too much. And some sound bad with it all the way up. But that's why they put potentiometers on everything. Tweak all of them for the sound you like. But there is still a fair percentage of amps available that can't be tweaked to get the sound I like. Which is probably a good thing, at least for the health of my bank account.

[Greentone]

I would like to own a tube Standel amp.