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...if so, what's it like? I'm suddenly thinking of getting one!
Last edited by Meggy; 12-25-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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12-25-2017 02:20 PM
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I have LT. It’s fantastic. What do you want to do with it? Basically the sky is the limit.
Originally Posted by Meggy
...if so, what's it like? I'm suddenly thinking of getting one!
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I don't know yet lol! but having something where as you say, the sky is the limit, is an appealing idea. I guess the immediate thing would be to replace my pedal board for gig use - the way I use that is just guitar into the board and out into a clean amp. The board has a Boss MS-3 which handles most of the effects, plus a couple of drive pedals I like, and an analog chorus I also like, in the MS-3's loops. So I use presets stored on the MS-3. Ideally, I'd want the Helix to replace all that and be a one box solution, with great sounds, no external effects pedals, and no mess of wires under the pedal board. Originally Posted by kenhan
Create beautiful ambient soundscapes would be another specific thing. Also use the looper for recording changes I'm working on for practice, and be able to save the loops - I assume it can do that? Maybe I'd ultimately be heading in the direction of using amp and speaker simulation, and going straight into the PA, plus perhaps having a couple of powered full range speakers near me on stage - the idea of going stereo also appeals.
One question is what's it like for getting good jazz tones - are there any amp and/or speaker sims that work really well for that? Cheers!
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I can’t say anything about the Helix products. The last Line 6 product I tried using was the POD HD500. It was okay.
I’ve been gigging with Fractal Audio processors (Axe-FX II, and now AX8) for about 5 years now and haven’t looked back. The reviews compare the new Helix units favorably.
I still use tube amps at home though.
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How good are the clean blackface sounds? Thanks! Originally Posted by kenhan
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Cheers for your reply - yes, I'm well aware of the Fractal stuff, and the quality of that seems unquestionable. Unfortunately, at least in the UK, it's also quite pricey and really out of my league. Who knows, if I see a second hand AX8 going at a fair price, I might be tempted. If I do get some sort of modelling floor unit, of whatever brand, I think I'll be heading towards having two distinct setups, one of which will still be guitar straight into Polytone amp - but for certain other situations, the floor processor could be good. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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That’s interesting to hear. The price for the AX8 is now less than the Helix and almost the same as the LT in the States.
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I am using a HeadRush pedal board... it is absolutely fantastic!
-C
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Just did a quick google, and there are people in the UK selling AX8's secondhand between £1000 and £1500. A guy on ebay offering new imported ones for over £2000. Actually can't find any of the UK's big name music stores stocking them, and almost all of them have the Helix LT at £700 or a bit less, new (full fat Helix Floor can be found for under £1000 new) - so I have to feel Fractal are not doing so well at pushing their products here, you would have to really have very specific reasons to strongly prefer their products to go that way. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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Interesting, by all means tell me more! I read a review that feels the amp models are superior on those - how are you using it? What kind of setup for live playing? Originally Posted by h1pst3r88
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I love the Helix. cannot comment on AX8 as I've never actually played thru one live.
If you're a "one sound" player then you may find the premium modelers a little overkill. No question about quality in my opinion and a full library of great effects but you must use a full range full response system for best results. (Ive never used it as an effects only unit but I would guess that it's perfectly acceptable).
It requires some patience and a lot of trial and error, especially for live setups, but when dialed in yields incredible results.
I use it in two basic ways: Economy set up (one guitar, one cab for smaller gigs) and full on stereo rig with 3 different guitars. In either case I can send a signal to the house PA or mains. If you've got a sound man, he will love you for ease of set up. If you're self mixing it can be a little challenging in balancing your patches but with lots of trial and error you'll get it dialed in.
for full stereo ambience, I run two elevated FR/FR QSC K10's on the backline. Its lucious and true. In seconds I can switch from crystal clear nylon or acoustic to hollwbody or a crunch Tele or searing Strat. I'll probably never go back. I'm spoiled now.
For simpler gigs like filling in for a blues band it's one trip in and out with the Tele, a cab and the Helix. Same great sound. There's a definite learning curve to maximize their utility but I personally love it. Really versatile and nothing but compliments on the sound.
These are my opinions only and based on my experience of many years of playing thru real amps. For shear versatility it's tough to beat. Fits my use perfectly.
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Thank you Michael - that is the kind of information I'm after, and very good to hear how you use the Helix for gigging. From what you say, going guitar-Helix-FRFR speaker(s)/PA is obviously a very different proposition to guitar-effects board-clean amp, which is what I currently do. I do have patches I create on my Boss MS-3 on my pedal board, and don't have any trouble getting the volumes right for those, so I do kind of wonder why it would be trickier with Helix into FRFR? Originally Posted by Michael Kaye
I generally just set things so that it's all the same volume patch to patch, maybe overdrive lead tones a touch louder for solos, and I can always back the guitar volume down a bit, unsophisticated though that may be! It seems to work. A lot of my gigs are not big enough venues to be going through a PA, but some are of late, so it would be great to be able to just give the sound chap a lead to feed straight into the PA with no miking up worries.
Anyhow, cheers again, that's great stuff to read about.
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honestly, I don't know that it's that much trickier if you are used to balancing out patches with a modeller and I can't speak for the Boss unit but I can say that with the Helix the level of detail of variation amp to amp within the modeller can be a. little intimidating. I think is has to do with perceived volume and presence in the context of the band live on stage. For example, if I'm doing a solo intro to a song on nylon, I have a setting or patch that gives me the sound and levels I need but once the full band joins in I have a slightly different "snapshot" of the same sound that basically helps it sit in the mix better and can be heard through the mix without changing its overall character. It's not a different patch altogether but a variation of the same patch. I might want a more rich low end solo but that quickly gets muddy once the keys and bass kick in so my "snapshot" features a slightly more midrange sound, less low end for rhythm and then a 3rd "snapshot" with a little more "punch" and less reverb for a solo. It's all about presence in the mix when playing live, especially when pitting acoustic instruments against other electronic instruments. Now, I'm a little nerdy about this stuff too and I enjoy tweeking the subtle details so take that with a grain of salt but I think those kind of details take modelling to the next level - maybe imperceptible to the average listener but key to my own enjoyment of my sound. Can you get away with one sound for a tune? -probably in most cases- but that's the fun in modelling for me. Originally Posted by Meggy
. I do have patches I create on my Boss MS-3 on my pedal board, and don't have any trouble getting the volumes right for those, so I do kind of wonder why it would be trickier with Helix into FRFR?
Anyhow, cheers again, that's great stuff to read about.
the other issue is that once I'm playing I hate "tweaking on the fly". You don't want to be that guy in the band haha. master volume on the Helix and a little global EQ and that's about it so I take care to be prepared. I want to be the guy that just plugs in and goes without a lot of fuss so there is extra care in getting it just right to begin with.
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That explains things very well, thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts on this down in words Michael. As someone who regularly plays live myself, I can relate, although I suppose up to now, I've tended just to tweak the volume and tone on my guitar in response to the changing noise from the rest of the band. But yes, if modelling gives one the tools to adjust in a more sophisticated way, then I can see why it would be a good idea. Anyhow, I have a better idea of what might be involved/possible, and it's all useful for me as someone considering going into this kind of modelling gear world, so cheers again! Originally Posted by Michael Kaye
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Jazz is a relatively new genre for me but I have always been an ensemble player. I love playing out and often take interesting gigs no matter the genre and my Achilles heel is that I actually enjoy a wide variety of guitar playing so for me, that means being able to pull off a variety of sounds and modelling helps me do that. Good luck in your endeavors and happy to help.
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And the very best to yourself! Jazz is an old game for me, although I've recently found myself in a band that does a variety of pop stuff, and I'm actually having a whale of a time with that one. I've always been interested in a lot of different styles, as well as the wide variety of sounds that can be got from a guitar. So coming at things from a bit different direction to yourself perhaps, but moving into having similar requirements. Thanks again, and happy New Year when it comes! Originally Posted by Michael Kaye
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Went ahead and ordered - there was a very good price on offer at the moment, which may not be around for ever, so I jumped. It's a big purchase for me, so really hope it works out. Cheers again for all the advice chaps!
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Meggy, congrats in advance, adn do say a word or two about the contraption after you have gotten your feet wet. There are many curious.
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Thanks Ozoro - I certainly will do that, and maybe it will be useful if I can give something of a jazz-oriented guitarist's perspective on the thing, which is hard to find much of that on the web in general. Hoping it's streamlines and improves things over my current pedal board, which really is a bit of a contraption. Originally Posted by 0zoro
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I look forward to it Meggy! Ever since I picked up guitar, not that long ago, I have been interested in finding a sound I hear during the middle ´60s. I imagine that it was a relatively unaltered tube, no stomp boxes at the time. I would describe it as a non distorted signal, with the sweet addition of the oscillation created by the warm tube. I have had a POD HD for years and not found it, but as a result of this thread looked at Line 6 sight and found a sound example that was right in the neighborhood, this has really tickled my fancy. BTW, where did you order the Helix from?
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Yes, that's a very interesting point you make there - that subtle difference that a tube (or valve here in the UK Originally Posted by 0zoro
) amp makes with a totally clean tone, and has amp modelling got to an advanced enough stage that it can replicate it? That's a good thing for me to look at - I should say that, except for very briefly having a 2x12 Fender Pro Reverb, I've never been a valve amp man, and for jazz I'm very happy with the tones from my Polytone, or indeed a Yamaha G50 112 I also have stashed away - I've had people asking if it's valves with both those amps as it happens. But, yes, if the Helix can really do the clean valve amp thing, it would be very good indeed - I won't be too hard on it if not though, I suspect that's quite a tough ask. I'll be chuffed it just makes sounds to my taste in general, and hopefully expands what I can do in that regard.
Ordered from Dawsons Music in the UK, don't suppose there's any harm in saying. Will now have to wait until Tuesday next week to get the thing. Wondering if I can get it sneaked into the house without anyone noticing lol...
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As small as they are I´m sure no one will notice. Again look forward to sound progress.
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So, just a quick report - having had the Helix LT a few days, and having got to the stage of learning the interface somewhat, and programmed in a single patch of my own - which, by combining/bypassing different effects blocks, actually covers all the clean sounds I would need for my covers pop band, and actually the jazz/fusion kind of sounds I use as well...
Basically, I should have got one of these things - certainly the LT version anyhow, when they first came out (that was April last year for the LT). Doubtless there are certain particular things it can't do, that more specialist effects boxes (Strymon, Eventide, etc. etc.) can, but it really can do a huge amount - it presents the user with a huge palate of possibilities to explore, and enormous scope for refining and getting individual sounds just how you want them. Also the sound quality - to my ears in a different league to gear I've used previously, even just through my humble Cube 80XL amp clean channel, which is how I've been testing things.
As to the amp models, cab models, microphone models, impulse responses - I admit to still not being sure what the difference between an impulse response and a cab/mic model is - I have had a play around with a little of that stuff, and it kind of works even through the Cube's clean channel, which will have a colouring influence - again, it seems very impressive. Kind of staggering to be able to select a virtual amp, then virtual speaker cabs, then the type of mic and how far it's placed from the speaker and all sorts of other associated parameters. These things do have a major impact on the sound, and I can see the potential. But I have come to the conclusion that I'm best avoiding it until I get myself a decent FRFR powered speaker (which I will). Even as an effects-only device though, the Helix is, for me, a bit of a stunner - not only the quality and range of effects, but also the routing possibilities and not least the ease of setting up and editing patches. And then how the footswitch layout and functions can be customized to give easy and quick access to the sounds I need in a gig setting - another key thing, and this nails it.
So yes, as someone said earlier in the thread, the sky's the limit - and a beautifully designed, high quality (I would say luxurious!) bit of kit. Of course, if one is really only interested in playing with a nice straight ahead warm jazz tone with an archtop (or tele!) then maybe this thing is entirely superfluous - I do understand that. I've always had a bit of a sonic explorer streak in me though, so in my case, I love it. Also, I do suspect there will be some very nice classic jazz tones to be had using some amp/cab/mic models, suitably tweaked, and put through a good FRFR speaker - although that is perhaps a case of using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut...
Last edited by Meggy; 01-05-2018 at 09:44 AM.
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Congrats on the new Gear, Meggy! I've had a similar adventure recently integrating the new HeadRush pedalboard into my setup. Beyond all of the other great features of gear like the Helix and HeadRush that you mentioned, its ability to integrate with other amps (solid state=my Quilter 101; Valve=My Samamp or Thumbderbird Twins; or, Studio=my JBL studio monitors) is awesome!
I have configured things in every possible way and it just sounds great! At this point I have my Thunderbird Twin head in the FX loop of the HeadRush where I also have a Twin amp model. I can toggle the FX loop on and off and switch between a real hand-wired Twin pre and the Twin model in the HeadRush -- the funny thing is that they sound identical if I want them to.
I love kicking in the Harmonizer down a octave to lay a bassline down in the looper (which is tremendous) and then pulling up different tones to build up the loop and work on solos.
The sky truly is the limit with this generation of gear! One would think with all these effect on tap that I would have my fill. Instead, apparently, effects beget more ffects... I have a Mu-Tron III coming today to indulge my inner Jerry
-Chris
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It's amazing stuff Chris, cheers - I must say the Headrush is a beautiful looking bit of kit as well. It really does seem there is new generation of gear emerging. I don't blame you at all for adding yet more effects to the huge capability you will already have, and I'm sure that will work out well, but for myself, my way for the foreseeable will be just to use the Helix for everything.
The task for today is to get an overdrive lead tone for soloing - nothing too heavy, more Larry Carlton/Robben Ford than Yngwie Malmsteem/Steve Vai... I have a couple of pedals that when cascaded together with the right settings, get a tone I really like, so hope I can replicate, or even improve on this.
Thank you for the picture - I know where there is another of that model Aria semi-acoustic - a singer friend of mine has one that I sometimes use when we practice.
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