Godin 5th Avenue

**clumster** · 09-26-2009, 08:21 PM

What are everybody's thoughts on the Godin 5th Avenue?

Godin 5th Avenue-godin-5th-avenue-jpg

**keith** · 09-26-2009, 11:03 PM

Recently I bought the Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin model as the tailpiece of my primary guitar broke off at the hinge and I needed a guitar within a few days. I wanted a guitar that was inexpensive but had a decent sound and playability. I had seen the Ibanez Artecore series but in the past had played a few and wasn't impressed with their sound ( very affordable though ) I retried them with no change of heart. Ibanez makes a custom Artecore series with an upgraded pickup ( either custom 58's or super 58's depending on the model ) but was only able to find one of them used in a shop to try out and although better sounding than the initial models wasn't what I was looking for. This led me to the above Godin model which surprised me. First the appearance is very basic with no high gloss finish ( I have the natural finish ). The appearance of the pickguard is a little off also but these were very minor issues to me. The action and playability on the guitar I picked up were very good right off the shelf and have not needed adjustment. The stained model was also there but did not play as well and had some notable defects. The sound is amazingly bright and even across the strings and is quite loud acoustically, none of the dullness I had noted with the Ibanez models. In addition the P90 pickup is also quite bright, clean and full sounding. It's a different sound than the Armstrong pickup on my other guitar, less jazzier but was still quite usable for comping and clean for lead line usage. I was hoping to get away cheap as I didn't really need another archtop and this was I think in the $600-700 range. What struck me as funny though was that they apparently ship without a hardshell case so I had to add that to the cost. Overall though I thought it was far better guitar than the other guitars in that range that I played ( Ibanez and Epiphone also tried a PRS solidbody which had nice sound but not what I was looking for ) Hope that helps!

**mr. beaumont** · 09-27-2009, 10:13 AM

i've played a few and thought very highly of them...so i finally broke down and ordered a kingpin model, no cutaway single pickup job. It should arrive wednesday and shortly thereafter i'll post a full review with pics.

in the meantime, do a search at this site--they're thought of pretty highly around here...godin's a cool company, they make affordable instruments with "green" wood choices that are generally regarded as some serious bang for the buck.

**gazda** · 09-28-2009, 07:28 AM

I've posted a few short comments on 5th Avenue on this forum before, but never really a full review.

First and foremost, it is a laminate-wood guitar, so if you are of a view that only a solid top guitar can be an acoustic guitar, look away now

I've got a black acoustic 5th Avenue (not Kingpin).

It is a surprisingly playable and well built guitar. In half a year of everyday playing, and looking for every little problem, I've found only one issue - fifth fret 6th string is slightly less sustaining than the surrounding notes. It is not "dead" in the real sense of a "dead fret/note", and really I have spent hours testing every note on every string to see how well balanced it is up and down the neck until I found that issue. In real playing it is irrelevant as it is not noticeable.

The flat/satin finish is very cool. 5th Avenue with that finish and simple hardware is a decidedly unblingy beauty (matter of taste, of course).

The neck, with its slightly flatter (U?) profile feels wide and is fingerstyle-friendly. The guitar responds well to both fingerpicking and flatpicking, and at least in my hands, seems to favour rounder heavy picks for a big round tone.

The action is adjustable, and the guitar reaches good volume with a very low action. It is a relatively small guitar, it is light, sits well balanced and is pleasure to play. Many people have reported not being able to put it down in a shop - it happened to me too.

Because cherry laminate seems to be very strong, the top, back and sides are pretty thin, and it makes for a very light guitar, which makes it quite resonant but as it is relatively small, it can't compete with bigger bodied beasts.

Tone wise, you can string it with PB strings, as it comes from the factory. Alternatively, it takes silk-and-steel strings really well, or you can put flatwound 13s, and with a bit of a volume sacrifice get the feel of an unplugged electric archtop. With flats, it is louder than an unplugged 175, but not louder than an unplugged NYL-2. I keep on changing strings as I find it amusing how it changes character and becomes a "different" guitar. Currently I have 12-56 Labella silk and steels, which give it a chug without too much of a zing. Strummed hard with roundwounds, it can compete with flattops for volume, but at no point it can sound anything like a flattop.

As it is a strongly forward projecting guitar, I often get surprised by the recorded sound or by the reaction of people listening to it.

The finish is not easy to ding. Vintage style tuners are love-or-hate: I love them. The bridge on early ones (like the one I have) is rosewood, and it is functional and easy to adjust. It fits well. The later models are fitted with a dense plastic bridge (the same as on the Kingpin), which probably is easier for quality control and also cheaper for production. I played one in a shop, and it still was very much a 5th Avenue.

Finally, I've got a fitted lightweight Tric case for it, which recently survived two pretty serious downpours. Very good.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-30-2009, 11:25 PM

well, mine arrived yesterday, and i thought i'd post a few things about it.

it seems really well made. nothing at all seems chintzy or second rate. it's a looker, the satin finish is gorgeous, that the cognac burst is prettier in person than photos show. mine has a really nice grain pattern on the top...the headstock is painted gloss black, with a little strip of unpainted wood that serves as headstock "binding." i hadn't noticed that before...it looks lovely...and the faux tortoise is really nice, it even has a little "irridescence" to it...still, it's also kind of a no frills, workman's archtop, which i think really draws me in, being a simple telecaster fanatic (as you all know)

i strung it up right away with flatwounds, .11 gauge. My first impression is that i'll probably end up with at least .12's on here (shorter scale than what i'm used to, so less string tension) the guitar plays remarkably easy, and is actually the first instrument i've ever bought that needed no setup work whatsoever. intonates as perfectly as a floating bridge with non-indivdually adjustable saddles can. Action was almost too low for me, but it presented no issues as far as buzzing, so i left it, and now a day later i'm adjusted to how easy it plays.

unplugged the sound is pretty much what you'd expect from a smaller bodied archtop-- no too much volume, but the notes just SNAP right out at you. i could definitely see how some folks would put acoustic strings on the non-pickup version and go all freddie green. With the volume rolled back, i can do a passable imitation of herb ellis' unamplified comping that he did with oscar peterson so often.

plugged in, it's a very old fashioned, old school sound. like barney kessel's early volumes on prestige, or that trio record jim hall made back in the fifties with the guitar, piano, bass lineup. played with my thumb, i can even get a little wes action, but overall, the sound is brighter. even plugged in and turned up, it retains most of the characteristics it had unplugged-- quick attack (and decay) and a real defined "snap" to each note. The volume and tone controls are very usable, and roling a little volume off darkens the sound ever so slightly without turning anything "muddy." Seems like this guitar really loves a tube amp--kinda compliments it's old school sound the most, however, i got good results thru my zt lunchbox with the redstone extension cab as well. it was almost too bassy thru the polytone, I'll have to retry that with a different EQ setting than usual...

I'll take some pics tomorrow and finish up by posting those here too. I've got to wait a bit to make a truly unbiased review, but so far it seems, in the realm of budget archtops, this one is really in a class above anything epiphone or ibanez. I'm pretty sure I'll have no problems saying goodbye to my Emperor Regent.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-01-2009, 12:16 AM

Congrats! That was fast. I guess you don't need to be convinced that single coil pickups work for jazz. I'm wondering who made the P-90 -- was it in house? And can you think of a comparable guitar that's currently being sold -- a non-cutaway w/ a P-90. I can't think of any.

**randyc** · 10-01-2009, 12:32 AM

No doubt I am displaying my ignorance of current prices, but can't vintage full-body ES-125's be obtained for comparable prices ?

cheers

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 10-01-2009, 01:43 AM

I think MrB payed 500 something for it. The 125 was discontinued awhile ago (1970?) and in the end Gibson was making T (thinline) and C (cutaway) versions, so a full depth non-cutaway won't be easy to find, and my guess at a price would be at least double and closer to triple to what he payed.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-01-2009, 09:04 AM

in good shape, a full depth ES-125 will run about $1500. in not so great shape, they can be had for under a grand, but they'll need a few hundred bucks worth of work to be playable...

yeah, i scored this for $500-- "b stock." There's a small scratch on the headstock, and it saved me $200 bucks!

and let's face it, the 125 is a plywood student model too.

**randyc** · 10-01-2009, 11:07 AM

Ahhh, I see. It was my impression that the old 125's could be obtained for $1k US and that the Godins cost about the same ... sorry, my bad.

And "student model" is the right description, nevertheless I wouldn't compare the two guitars on an equal footing, would you ?

The ES-125 that I began playing on was a deeply resonant instrument with incredible tone, richer sounding than a 175 even, because of the full body I suppose. (My Uncle still has that guitar, which he bought for $60 new.)

Insofar as the Godin being superior to the Epi Emp/Rej, I have NO problem accepting that

cheers

**BobD** · 10-01-2009, 12:20 PM

I'm pretty sure I'll have no problems saying goodbye to my Emperor Regent.

So Mr. Beaumont,

The Godin sounds and plays better than the Epi? From what I have listened to on youtube I find that the Godin sounds too much like a flattop acoustic where as the Epi videos seem to have that real jazz sound. Does the Godin have that jazz sound?

**mr. beaumont** · 10-01-2009, 01:53 PM

IMHO, it plays a lot better...i've got the action really low, almost to the point of where i might want to take it up a little, but i have no buzzes or rattles. The tuners are great-- restrung it, tuned it up, two little stretches and no tuning issues since. The epi always had some sympathetic buzzes coming from somewhere, the tailpiece, the pickguard, an internal brace, or something.

i've seen the youtube videos you speak of, and i'm not sure why they sound like that--this guitar sounds nothing like a flattop. maybe with really heavy bronze strings, the sound would be different, but this is pretty "archtoppy" in tone. Even though it has a smaller body, it's a good deal louder than the epiphone--especially apparent if you're sitting in front of it hearing someone else play...the sound is nowhere near as good as a solid carved top instrument, it's really an electric guitar thru and thru, and i would imagine the acoustic only model might lack in tone for some folks. Still, it can do a passable unamplified comping tone--again, more like herb ellis behind oscar peterson than freddie green, at least with my string setup...bronze strings and higher action might open it up a little more--but i'm fine with it as an electric that i can also practice on unamplified.

plugged in, it's a very classic jazz tone--barney kessel tones, grant green tones, old kenny burrell--that sound. it'll take some more experimentation and tweaking to see if it can do more modern tones-- maybe a P-100 pickup swap for a humbucker in there...i dunno. Vintage Vibe does a CC style blade pup in a P90 housing, so i think about that too, but for now, i like the tone i'm getting--so i just gotta tweak a little and get to know it....i will say this, it does not seem like it's going to be an especially versatile guitar.

like i said, i do have to wait a bit before i can make a really unbiased review-- it's still the "honeymoon" period for me. But i always felt the epiphone was a really nice looking guitar that just didn't really deliver unplugged or plugged in...this guitar may not be as pretty (but it does have a charm to it) but so far it appears in can back it up in sound, and especially in playability.

as for the sounds of the old 125's, it's hard to say...i've played a few, since i've always wanted a guitar like that...this godin is definitely easier to play than any of the 125's i've tried, but that's really becasue they were 60 years old, and needed a little love and attention! the sound plugged in is pretty similar--the 125's i played did seem to have a little more tone unplugged--i'm guessing overall becasue the action was higher and the strings might have been heavier--that can actually make a big difference. it certainly doesn't have the "vibe" of an old 125, but it's also less than half the price, and completely replacable if anything happens...

**mr. beaumont** · 10-01-2009, 02:16 PM

I'm not at the point in my life right now where I want to restore a guitar-- i just want to play 'em. I do think someday I'll have a 125 with a CC pickup with hopefully all those positive jimmy raney vibes still inside...

I don't want to sound like i'm coming off too hard on the epiphone either, really...i think it's a decent budget axe...but i found myself unhappy with the amplified sound, so i had no real use for it other than for quiet unamplified practice. I feel like i could gig this guitar (and i will, next weekend)

**GodinFan** · 10-06-2009, 12:18 AM

I tried a cutaway model again today. Didn't like the c/w, so I'm sticking with my acoustic model.

However, the burgundy finish was a nice addition to the line. Like it better than the black.

**mr. beaumont** · 10-19-2009, 06:41 PM

thought i'd finally post a pic. Had the guitar for about three weeks now, and I'm still really enjoying it...I did use a silver sharpie to add side position markers to the 15th thru 21st fret-- helps when I'm doing harmonics...I'm also debating a set of amber gibson-style knobs...but that's just shallow me wanting to do something to the guitar to make it "mine"-- no desire to change anything about how it plays or sounds.

I did gig it last weekend and it held up great under two hours of playing, no tuning issues, and my hand felt comfortable on the neck the whole time.

my one beef--if you can call it that--it really doesn't sound very good thru the zt lunchbox-- it really craves the polytone (also sounds good through tube amps, but a good bit brighter)

anyway, here's me enjoying it at home.

**wizard3739** · 10-20-2009, 12:52 AM

wow! nice guitar Mr. B!!

wiz

**randyc** · 10-20-2009, 01:04 AM

Lovely grain - the coolest thing about laminated tops is that the manufacturer can select the uppermost layer strictly for appearance. Close-grained spruce carved tops sound sweetest but are not very interesting to look at, hence the introduction of "sunburst" finish.

cheers,
randyc

**P.J.** · 10-20-2009, 05:51 AM

Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin Archtop Video Review - PremierGuitar.com

There is a video review of the guitar. Looks pretty cool but I would have to get rid of something first.
Or have my 4 and 6 yr. old sons get jobs...

=-) PJ

**Whistler** · 01-17-2012, 10:45 PM

I'm in the market for a low-end archtop, acoustic only, no pickup, non cutaway.
There seems to be a few forum members that own the Godin Kingpin and particularly like it with the P90.

I'm wondering if there is a tonal difference between the 5th Avenue (no pickup) and the Kingpin. There was a Kingpin that I tried locally but it is now sold. The sound was terrible because of a rattle caused by something loose, so that was not a fair test.

Anybody tried both?
Thanks

**mr. beaumont** · 01-17-2012, 11:06 PM

I love my P90 equipped Kingpin. Love. But it does not have much acoustic volume or tone to it...even as I have it strung up with bronze strings.

Seeing that the P90 screws to the top with a minimum of cutting, I find it hard to believe there's much of a difference between the kingpin and all acoustic fifth avenue model.

It's a pleasing tone though...nice for practice at home...but once you play an acoustic archtop with either solid woods or a bigger box or both, it becomes clear...

I'd suggest giving the loar lh 300 a serious look if it's an acoustic archtop you want.

**Retroman1969** · 01-17-2012, 11:12 PM

I owned a straight acoustic 5th Ave. for awhile.
It was a nicely made guitar for the most part and played easy, but the sound was a bit thin and choked to my ears. Not very loud.
I believe the top was laminate.
I think it makes a better electric than acoustic, IMHO.

**KevinV** · 01-18-2012, 12:00 AM

I've been gassing for a 5th Avenue for quite a while. I've only played the 2-pickup cutaway model, but what I wanted was the non cutaway acoustic as you mentioned. I agree the sound was not as full as a solid top, but for what it is, I think it sounds great. And the neck was VERY comfortable. I couldn't find any issues with it in the short time I played it at the store.

After mulling over my choices, I opted for the Loar LH-600. After receiving 2 duds and returning them I looked again at the 5th Avenue. I made a positive/negative list of going with the 5th or trying another Loar and ended up ordering a 5th in the acoustic only model. It's scheduled for delivery Friday. I'll be better equipped to give my impressions over the weekend if you haven't already made your decision.

**Frank67** · 01-18-2012, 02:19 AM

I confirm what mr B and Retroman pointed out. Not much accoustic volume, rather thin sounding accoustically. With the right set of strings it sounds nice amplified - but not that fat jazztone. But you haven't been going for that i suppose. Nice build quality.

**ruiner54** · 01-18-2012, 07:52 AM

I was close to buying one until I had a chance to play it for 30-40 consecutive minutes....beautiful guitar but as said..thin sound

**Whistler** · 01-18-2012, 06:39 PM

Thanks to all for your input.
This confirms my suspicions that the 5th Avenue is best used as an electric. You are right in that they are seem well made and have an attractive (to me) finish. The Kingpin I tried was really nice, except for the rattle.

Perhaps The Loar is the way to go. There is an LH-300 in a local store. Awesome sound and playability. Unfortunately, the bridge is bottomed out with no remaining adjustment. Based on other's experience, I might have to try several before finding a good one.

Thanks again.
Larry