Heritage 18" Johnny Smith

**citizenk74** · 10-21-2017, 05:23 PM

Nicely done, Joe! The HJS has a magnificent, broad range and wonderful tone, and the 165 has that creamy Gibson sound in spades. Two wonderful instruments in deserving and capable hands. Well played, Sir, well played!

**Max405** · 10-21-2017, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by QAman

Joe,
Beautiful playing as usual and a tough song to keep things flowing. For me - I loved the tone of the 165 - and you just appear more comfortable with that instrument. I think the 165 is a keeper forever- its just a perfect fit for YOU!

Stevie, I don’t understand what it is about the HJS18. It’s not clumsy, not hard to play.. I just always feel like I’m fighting it. I can’t understand it. It’s a beautiful piece. It’s just cold in my hands. Some nights I pick it up and I feel invincible. Other nights it feels like a different guitar than the one I had to setup the night before.
The 165 on the other hand is automatic. It is a keeper for sure.

Originally Posted by neatomic

nice...heritage has full spectrum clarity...165 has classic mids jazz tone...
as per grounding issues, have you tried new guitar cable?...tho heritage sounds like the ground wire to tailpiece might not be making correct contact
great playing per usual tho!
cheers

Neatomic,
thanks buddy. That is what was think too. In fact I took some pics of the connection at the jack and everything looked right. I didn’t have time to pull the the tailpiece off this morning. Maybe I’ll do it tonight. Thanks for the great advice, as usual.
JD

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Hey, Joe, where you goin with that axe in your hands? I can't believe I missed this thread. I've now read every post. Lovely guitar, and in the right hands, for sure. Beautiful playing, as ever, Joe. I'd be fully sated with either the Heritage or the Gibson, but if I HAD to pull one out of a fire, it would be the Gibson, just purely based on those two videos. But they are extremely close. Can we hear them acoustically, Joe?

Hah! Good one Robster.
The 165 is a terrific guitar. I am committed to making the HJS work. It has a grip on me and now I need to bust through and take control of it. I will. I will do an acoustic video of the HJS soon. Nothing I own compares to it acoustically. Thank you brother.

**BigMikeinNJ** · 10-21-2017, 05:46 PM

You sound great on both Joe, the G does have that creamy mid... BUT the HJS sound fantastic too...

Well played amigo, stay in touch.

**neatomic** · 10-21-2017, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

. Some nights I pick it up and I feel invincible. Other nights it feels like a different guitar than the one I had to setup the night before.

sometimes it's the ones that give you the most trouble that are really the best for you!!! hah

make you rethink a bit...always a good thing!

a bullfight!! or a good boxing match

cheers

**QAman** · 10-21-2017, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

Stevie, I don’t understand what it is about the HJS18. It’s not clumsy, not hard to play.. I just always feel like I’m fighting it. I can’t understand it. It’s a beautiful piece. It’s just cold in my hands. Some nights I pick it up and I feel invincible. Other nights it feels like a different guitar than the one I had to setup the night before.
The 165 on the other hand is automatic. It is a keeper for sure.

Neatomic,
thanks buddy. That is what was think too. In fact I took some pics of the connection at the jack and everything looked right. I didn’t have time to pull the the tailpiece off this morning. Maybe I’ll do it tonight. Thanks for the great advice, as usual.
JD

Hah! Good one Robster.
The 165 is a terrific guitar. I am committed to making the HJS work. It has a grip on me and now I need to bust through and take control of it. I will. I will do an acoustic video of the HJS soon. Nothing I own compares to it acoustically. Thank you brother.

Joe,
Its the responsiveness and sensitivity of an instrument that captivates our attention and forms that instant bond. In your ( our) style of playing , a blending of ample sustain, vibrant bass, perfect balance and fat mids are a prerequiste. Now factor in , scale length , neck shape and playability. If these elements are right ( for our particular senses) then we instantly bond and our minds enter the creative state , or REM , but we are still awake. Lol .

When one of these elements are off, then we fiddle around with strings , set up , picks, etc. chasing these desired attributes, which ultimately distracts us from playing. Some instruments we force ourselves to like because of variety of reasons ( beauty, condition, finish, pedigree, status etc.) - but these may be the ones we struggle with - and likely enjoy( more) looking at on a stand while we are playing the ones we love.

Sound familiar. Im sure we can all relate - this is part of the fascintaing guitar journey that never really ends .

For the fortunate folks who own several guitars - we know exactly which ones are the " go to " ones.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

**neatomic** · 10-21-2017, 06:55 PM

Q^...great analysis..sooo true!

brilliant encapsulation!

cheers

**Max405** · 10-21-2017, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ

You sound great on both Joe, the G does have that creamy mid... BUT the HJS sound fantastic too...

Well played amigo, stay in touch.

Mikey, It never ends (thank God)..
Thank you buddy.

Originally Posted by neatomic

sometimes it's the ones that give you the most trouble that are really the best for you!!! hah
make you rethink a bit...always a good thing!
a bullfight!! or a good boxing match
cheers

Boxing was easier. A pair of Cleto Reyes gloves, Headgear, NoFoul protector.. Go out there, get my ass kicked. It didn't matter. I was proud I was in there. This stuff is striving for perfection. It doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by QAman

Joe,
Its the responsiveness and sensitivity of an instrument that captivates our attention and forms that instant bond. In your ( our) style of playing , a blending of ample sustain, vibrant bass, perfect balance and fat mids are a prerequiste. Now factor in , scale length , neck shape and playability. If these elements are right ( for our particular senses) then we instantly bond and our minds enter the creative state , or REM , but we are still awake. Lol .

When one of these elements are off, then we fiddle around with strings , set up , picks, etc. chasing these desired attributes, which ultimately distracts us from playing. Some instruments we force ourselves to like because of variety of reasons ( beauty, condition, finish, pedigree, status etc.) - but these may be the ones we struggle with - and likely enjoy( more) looking at on a stand while we are playing the ones we love.

Sound familiar. Im sure we can all relate - this is part of the fascintaing guitar journey that never really ends .

For the fortunate folks who own several guitars - we know exactly which ones are the " go to " ones.

Thanks for taking the time to think that through for me. You are so right Steve, on so many fronts. When I am playing this guitar my mind wanders a lot. On a variety of things. I've yet to have that out of body experience with it.

Tonight, I took the tailpiece off and checked the ground wire. It was fine. I black taped all the solder joints to prevent arcing. Not of that helped. I noticed there is static and hum, but it gets worse when I record. The combination of My G3, My Toshiba Qosmio Laptop and me makes he hum and hiss get worse. Its not like that through an amp. Its actually pretty quiet.
None of the my other guitars do that.
I am perplexed..
JD

**QAman** · 10-22-2017, 09:04 AM

Joe,
I just thought of something - is the tail pc steel or aluminum ? If the tail pc is aluminum it's likely black anodized. If so , the anodize shields the conductivity of the aluminum and will prevent a proper ground. Be sure the wire attached to tail pc has anodize removed in that area .

Whenever we manufacture aluminum anodized parts for Aircraft that requires electrical grounding, we always spot-face through the anodize coating to get a proper ground - let me know.

**Max405** · 10-22-2017, 09:24 AM

Stevie,
it might be aluminum. It certainly feels like it is. And the fine folks at Heritage scraped off the anodizing in the area that the wire comes in contact with. When I got under the TP, I noticed the wire became embedded in the wood and the wire was brittle. So I snipped it, removed the shielding (revealing some fresh wire) put a piece of black tape under the wire (on the wood) and reattached the TP. After all that, it didn’t help fix the problem.
When the guitar is sitting there, and I’m not touching it, it’s relatively quiet. When I go near the pickup, it hums worse. When I touch the back of the pot, the hum goes away completely.
Joe D

**Max405** · 10-22-2017, 10:23 AM

I might look into an EH humzapper. Will that help?

**fws6** · 10-22-2017, 11:48 AM

Thanks for those nice clips (like always) a pleasure to listen to !

why is that heritage humming so much , id think it needs to be rewired first, no pedal is going to help

**vinnyv1k** · 10-22-2017, 12:08 PM

Heritage was known for using cheap volume pots. That is most likely your problem. Best pots on the market are made by Precision Electronics. Way better than CTS or Switchcraft. Pricey but worth every penny. Best $30 you will ever spend. They sell them at amplifiedparts.com. Also put a piece of copper tape not aluminum tape between the tailpiece and the guitar.

**pilotony** · 10-22-2017, 12:13 PM

Both guitars sound terrific. But most of all, you are an outstanding guitarist. Thanks for posting such a beautiful example of chord-melody playing.

Tony D.

**skiboyny** · 10-22-2017, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by QAman

Joe,
Beautiful playing as usual and a tough song to keep things flowing. For me - I loved the tone of the 165 - and you just appear more comfortable with that instrument. I think the 165 is a keeper forever- its just a perfect fit for YOU.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

Agree totally!

**medblues** · 10-22-2017, 02:14 PM

My Godin 5th Ave Jazz was buzzing and humming big time. Now it's the second quietest electric guitar I own: New Bartolini pickup and complete regutting of the electronics with PEC pots like Vinny mentioned. That's why I converted the Heritage Johnny Smith to fully acoustic, I did not need its electric sound any more.

**Max405** · 10-22-2017, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by fws6

Thanks for those nice clips (like always) a pleasure to listen to !
why is that heritage humming so much , id think it needs to be rewired first, no pedal is going to help

Fws6, thanks buddy. Yeah I know.. embarrassing. I’ll take care of it.

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Heritage was known for using cheap volume pots. That is most likely your problem. Best pots on the market are made by Precision Electronics. Way better than CTS or Switchcraft. Pricey but worth every penny. Best $30 you will ever spend. They sell them at amplifiedparts.com. Also put a piece of copper tape not aluminum tape between the tailpiece and the guitar.

Vin, they should be an easy replacement right?

Originally Posted by pilotony

Both guitars sound terrific. But most of all, you are an outstanding guitarist. Thanks for posting such a beautiful example of chord-melody playing.
Tony D.

Tony, thanks for your beautiful post. I’ve been criticized for not being a real jazz player (you know part of the 98%) But playing chord melody to me is something I’ve always wanted to do. To me, it’s the pinnacle. And I see playing Johnny and Joe stuff to be a sign of respect to the 2 players I admire more than anything.
Seeing a post like yours makes me want to do more and get better. Thanks buddy.

Originally Posted by medblues

My Godin 5th Ave Jazz was buzzing and humming big time. Now it's the second quietest electric guitar I own: New Bartolini pickup and complete regutting of the electronics with PEC pots like Vinny mentioned. That's why I converted the Heritage Johnny Smith to fully acoustic, I did not need its electric sound any more.

Medblues, That is great to know.
Thanks buddy.

**vinnyv1k** · 10-22-2017, 05:39 PM

Pencil soldering gun a must but bro a project you would enjoy. Very easy. Remember towels all over your axe.

**Max405** · 10-22-2017, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

Pencil soldering gun a must but bro a project you would enjoy. Very easy. Remember towels all over your axe.

ok, I’m doin it.
JD

**Greentone** · 10-23-2017, 12:14 PM

The guitars are great--both. But, the guitarist is superb.

The guitars, of course, are tuned to JS's preferred tuning for "Old Folks." I fully expected the "18" to respond well to the tuning. I was surprised at how fully the ES-165 adapted to the extended tuning. What a great guitar.

JD, I can sense that you are more comfortable with the 165, but you are facile with each.

**lawson-stone** · 10-23-2017, 01:58 PM

Joe you just inspire me. After maybe 30 years of trying to become a great improviser, and failing, I've decided that just learning some of the songs by the players I admire is going to be my project. My line playing was always horrible, so I've been concentrating on that, but I have decided pretty soon to take Joe Pass's "Here's That Rainy Day" from Virtuoso and try to transcribe and learn it.

You've inspired me to do that, guy. If I can't "be" Joe Pass, I'll at least be a monument to him!

**Max405** · 10-23-2017, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Joe you just inspire me. After maybe 30 years of trying to become a great improviser, and failing, I've decided that just learning some of the songs by the players I admire is going to be my project. My line playing was always horrible, so I've been concentrating on that, but I have decided pretty soon to take Joe Pass's "Here's That Rainy Day" from Virtuoso and try to transcribe and learn it.

You've inspired me to do that, guy. If I can't "be" Joe Pass, I'll at least be a monument to him!

Naa.. You guys inspire me.
And Lawson, the patience it takes to learn these songs will overwhelm most people. Then the trick is to remember it along with 30 other arrangements. Its very difficult.
The problem with Joe pass stuff is he plays the same melody lines over and over 50 TOTALLY different ways in a song. He couldn't even remember what he did.
I do though..

Originally Posted by Greentone

The guitars are great--both. But, the guitarist is superb.

The guitars, of course, are tuned to JS's preferred tuning for "Old Folks." I fully expected the "18" to respond well to the tuning. I was surprised at how fully the ES-165 adapted to the extended tuning. What a great guitar.

JD, I can sense that you are more comfortable with the 165, but you are facile with each.

Thank you Greentone. You know it means a lot to me to hear this from guys like you. I appreciate it buddy.

The HJS deserves better from me. And I will conform to it. But playing that 165 is almost cheating. Its like I have the answers written on my hand..

Did you catch the ending I added to Johnnys arrangement? Played only on the HJS, Right after 12fret harmonic G, I added a little something for Johnny. I didnt want to polute his masterpiece too much but I did add a little something.

Thanks Guys.
JD

**lawson-stone** · 10-23-2017, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

Naa.. You guys inspire me.
And Lawson, the patience it takes to learn these songs will overwhelm most people. Then the trick is to remember it along with 30 other arrangements. Its very difficult.
The problem with Joe pass stuff is he plays the same melody lines over and over 50 TOTALLY different ways in a song. He couldn't even remember what he did.
I do though..

...

Thanks Guys.
JD

Here's something rich: I literally, JUST NOW, had a student in my office: he's working on his PhD in New Testament studies. So he walks in, picks up my new ES175, and plays, NOTE FOR NOTE, Joe Pass' "Stompin at Savoy" from Virtuoso Live. Nails it. tells me "I hear you like Joe Pass."

So now I really feel inspired. Sitting with this guy, it felt like Joe Pass was in my office. And he clearly was relishing being able to play that stuff.

I want that feeling!!!