Fretboard radius versus nut/neck width

[palindrome]

A couple of ongoing threads have revived my dormant wondering if there may be examples of rounder fretboard radiuses/-ii (e.g. the traditional Fender 7.25°) coupled with a more modern a nut/neck width.

I suspect I like the traditional radius but not necessarily the crammed nut width coming with it. Warmoth, for instance, seems to offer both in tandem only.


Put differently, are there any good reasons to not combine a traditional radius with a modern nut/neck width? One point that seems to come up without fail in this connection is the risk of "fretting out". So, are you more likely to "fret out" on a traditional radius if the neck is wider than traditional? (BTW, I don't think that I have ever "fretted out" on any fingerboard).

[ThatRhythmMan]

Fretting out on a small radius neck can certainly be a function of how far you bend. I've had that issue doing wide bends with the high E string that reach the center of the board on a 7.25" radius neck on a '72 Thinline Tele. It seems like that might be worse it the neck was wider. Of course, I may be totally wrong. That's just an intuitive guess.

[Jim Soloway]

I suspect I like the traditional radius but not necessarily the crammed nut width coming with it. Warmoth, for instance, seems to offer both in tandem only.

Using the Warmoth neck builder app for a Tele neck with vintage construction you can have 1 11/16 and a 7.25" radius (that combination is not available for the modern construction).

[Greentone]

The Vintage Fender necks--I owned a '57, a '65, and a '68--and I've played scores more, are sensational. If you bend to the skies you will fret out, but this never bothered Roy Buchanan nor me. Original nut width/radius encouraged you to get the left thumb into play.

[neatomic]

radius and nut width really depend on style of play

fingerpicking guys like flat radius and wide neck

fender original players like old style rounder radius

rickenbacker players like very narrow nut

no best or worst

complete matter of individual comfort and style

i've gotten rid of guitars because i couldn't deal with the radius!!!..an essential part of feel

as is matching your saddle radius to the fretboard radius...very important!!

cheers

[Hep To The Jive]

Radius and nut width is the main reason I decided to just have a tele, got rid of my archtops and stop chasing to find a perfect one. I know I'm in minority here but I LOVE narrow nut width necks, and I prefer smaller radius too. I also like neck profile on a fatter side.. Naturally, I can easily find it on a tele, but find an archtop with these neck specs? Not so easy to say the least!

[Stringswinger]

I have played some old archtops that had a seriously curved radius, making Fenders with a 7.5 seem flat. I have also played custom made archtops with a totally flat radius (the choice of a classical player, I suppose). Like nut widths and fret size, it is a preference. I think you can mix or match any combination of radius, nut size, neck profile, scale length and fret size you choose. Vintage D'Angelicos are all over the map on some of this stuff and they were custom made for a particular player's preference.

As many of us are used to the standard specs of a Fender, Gibson or Martin, their specs are the most common. But there is no right or wrong answer to the question of which specs are best.

[LeGrand]

Radius and nut width is the main reason I decided to just have a tele, got rid of my archtops and stop chasing to find a perfect one. I know I'm in minority here but I LOVE narrow nut width necks, and I prefer smaller radius too. I also like neck profile on a fatter side.. Naturally, I can easily find it on a tele, but find an archtop with these neck specs? Not so easy to say the least!

Guild's have a 9.5 radius including my X175-B. My G&L Bluesboy has a 9.5 (semi hollow tele style). Gibson's typically have 12 or 12.5.

Some Fender tele's have a "compound" radius meaning one radius up top (9.5) and transitioning into another near the 12th fret and higher.

[deacon Mark]

That is correct there is no right answer. The neck and fingerboard, frets, and radius all come into play, even the scale length. Change the back of the neck profile and everything changes in feel. Change the radius of the fingerboard and everything changes in the feel. Finally even the frets matter the size and profile, not to mention how they radius out in the dressing of the frets.

For me personally I like a relatively flat feeling neck and 12 radius hits the spot when everything else feels good. My source is the late great Johnny Smith who like the 12 inch radius and felt it is was the one that did it all. Johnny was a very good repairman himself and fantastic at setting up guitars...............he told Gibson how he wanted them to do it. If you get a real good Gibson John Smith Guitar set up perfect I think that for me says it all about how a fingerboard should feel. The wider 1 3/4 neck and 12 radius is the best I think for what I do.

D'angelico's are all over the place with necks and widths and I can tell you this much. I played Johnny Smith's D'angelico New Yorker many years ago at his store, ( I posted a story about this once on RMMJG). Let me tell you it was magical in the feel of the neck and play-ability. For me that was a lesson in................if it is not broke don't fix it.

At the risk of redundancy I would post my visit to visiting Johnny at his store in Colorado in 1979....if anyone wants to hear it.

[Stringswinger]

That is correct there is no right answer. The neck and fingerboard, frets, and radius all come into play, even the scale length. Change the back of the neck profile and everything changes in feel. Change the radius of the fingerboard and everything changes in the feel. Finally even the frets matter the size and profile, not to mention how they radius out in the dressing of the frets.

For me personally I like a relatively flat feeling neck and 12 radius hits the spot when everything else feels good. My source is the late great Johnny Smith who like the 12 inch radius and felt it is was the one that did it all. Johnny was a very good repairman himself and fantastic at setting up guitars...............he told Gibson how he wanted them to do it. If you get a real good Gibson John Smith Guitar set up perfect I think that for me says it all about how a fingerboard should feel. The wider 1 3/4 neck and 12 radius is the best I think for what I do.

D'angelico's are all over the place with necks and widths and I can tell you this much. I played Johnny Smith's D'angelico New Yorker many years ago at his store, ( I posted a story about this once on RMMJG). Let me tell you it was magical in the feel of the neck and play-ability. For me that was a lesson in................if it is not broke don't fix it.

At the risk of redundancy I would post my visit to visiting Johnny at his store in Colorado in 1979....if anyone wants to hear it.

Mark, why don't you start a new thread detailing your time with Johnny Smith. I suspect it will be quite a popular thread indeed.

[Hep To The Jive]

Guild's have a 9.5 radius including my X175-B. My G&L Bluesboy has a 9.5 (semi hollow tele style). Gibson's typically have 12 or 12.5.

Some Fender tele's have a "compound" radius meaning one radius up top (9.5) and transitioning into another near the 12th fret and higher.

I know, I love those Guilds! I had one, but never really bonded with those Franz pickups. And later Guilds had good humbuckers, but the body shape changed too, so they were bigger and heavier and didnt really suited me.

Go custom with archtops is so much money! Im currently waiting to complete a tele project with every spec to my liking, and its under $1000!

[TedBPhx]

Without buying a special tool is there a luthier trick for guessing the radius?

[deacon Mark]

Make your own with a compass and real stiff cardboard or card stock. They can be bought for less than $10.

[LeGrand]

Without buying a special tool is there a luthier trick for guessing the radius?

Most manufacturers notate it on their spec sheets. Google the model, check the specs.

[ThatRhythmMan]

You can also get a set of gauges for less than $10.

Guitar T-shaped Gauge - SODIAL(R) Set of 9 Understring Radius Gauge for Guitar and Bass Setup Luthier Tools for Bridge Saddle Adjustments Amazon.com: Guitar T-shaped Gauge - SODIAL(R) Set of 9 Understring Radius Gauge for Guitar and Bass Setup Luthier Tools for Bridge Saddle Adjustments: Musical Instruments

[neatomic]

absolutely..for 10$ you can get a set of gauges..and fine tune your action forever

essential bit of tweakers kit




cheers

[TedBPhx]

So, no. I should buy or make a set of gauges.

Idle curiosity leads me to ask, where is the curvature? In the top of the neck and a flat fretboard is formed onto it or is the top of the neck and bottom of the fretboard flat and the curvature is carved into the top of the board? I'm guessing the latter.

[neatomic]

radius is curve of top of fretboard (& frets)

when the radius at different fret positions changes, it's called a compound radius

otherwise you can measure where the neck meets the body for a good (average) measurement

the bottom of the gauges go over the fretboard...like a fret...match the closest

then the top of gauge (which is matched to bottom) equals the bridge saddle radius

cheers

[TedBPhx]

Thanks!

[Max405]

For me personally I like a relatively flat feeling neck and 12 radius hits the spot when everything else feels good. My source is the late great Johnny Smith who like the 12 inch radius and felt it is was the one that did it all. Johnny was a very good repairman himself and fantastic at setting up guitars...............he told Gibson how he wanted them to do it. If you get a real good Gibson John Smith Guitar set up perfect I think that for me says it all about how a fingerboard should feel. The wider 1 3/4 neck and 12 radius is the best I think for what I do.

D'angelico's are all over the place with necks and widths and I can tell you this much. I played Johnny Smith's D'angelico New Yorker many years ago at his store, ( I posted a story about this once on RMMJG). Let me tell you it was magical in the feel of the neck and play-ability. For me that was a lesson in................if it is not broke don't fix it.

At the risk of redundancy I would post my visit to visiting Johnny at his store in Colorado in 1979....if anyone wants to hear it.

I for one would love to see that article.
And thanks for speaking so kindly about my hero.
Joe D

[jzucker]

it's all personal taste. For me, i can't stand vintage frets and a vintage (7.25) radius. I just cannot get around on the neck and feel like it requires so much more work. I actually prefer a flat or 16" radius board but 12" or flatter is the minimum for me and 6105 frets. I just can't play a 10" or less. It's too much work.

If you do any bending, the flatter radius makes it much more easy and makes the strings feel lighter. I find it interesting that gibsons have almost always had 12" radius fingerboards (at least from the '60s onward) while fender had the rounder boards. For folks that played with their thumb around the neck and just played chords here and there, the curved fingerboard matched the scrunched up position of their fingers.

But, I think the classical guitarists have it right. They almost all use a flat fingerboard.