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I love my 175 and would love it more if the neck was a bit thinner, maybe not as D shaped.
I played a 275 in Japan oh my, perfection, they really did design them for little fellas/s,all hands.
There is a p90 version for sale but even if I achieved top dollar for my 175 it would be a $2,000 change over cost. Plus, a big plus, I feel embarrassed and disloyal to my beautiful guitar. I am one of those one guitar people.
Anyone had experience having their neck shaved. I know many pros do it.
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07-25-2017 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gggomez
In the old days people would reshape necks and make other mod's, but I haven't heard of someone re-shaping a neck since then. Today people just seem to buy and trade till they are happy. Plus todays used market people aren't as accepting of modded bodies and necks, so you'd pretty much be killing the value of the guitar.
I'd think long and hard before re-shaping the neck.
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shaving back of neck is not a big deal...just make sure that's what's really bothering you...not the fingerboard width (string spacing) or the neck feel...some necks feel tacky...and just removing that outer layer of "stickiness" makes the neck feel much better
if its definitely a "mass" problem, then yes easily cured by competent luthier...and depending on how exacting you want it- refinished (or not), the cost will vary
many new "relics" come with the back of the neck sanded of finish..some prefer it worn
luck
cheersLast edited by neatomic; 07-25-2017 at 05:35 PM. Reason: sp-
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Make sure you're luthier is experienced with this operation and doesn't take too much off. Truss rod depth varies from model to model and sometimes with neck thickness.
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Are you wearing Bad Idea Jeans? Don't do it, it's a bad idea.
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Originally Posted by MaxTwang
Myself, I'd rather leave the guitar intact and either learn to live with the neck, or sell it off to someone who can. It's been my experience that adjusting to different neck-shapes has been to my benefit, anyway. After all the many shapes I've owned, of course I have my favorite, but I'm also comfortable on many others precisely because I worked at adjusting.
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I personally would suggest adapting to the the neck. I do believe it can happen but shaving the neck is not something I would recommend. The body adapts, ask me, I have numerous examples but they do not fit the forum.
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just to clarify..not recommending neck shave...just saying it's relatively easy mod when done by competent luthier...who understands neck thickness -truss rod specs
these days it's easier to move on/replace, when a guitar doesnt exactly match your specific expectations...in different/older times, modding or tweaking the guitar you loved, was a more viable option...and sometimes your only option!...
but out of those courageous mods (and modders) came what we have now..huge choice!!
cheers
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I get a little worried shaving my own neck sometimes. Even that doesn't always go as planned.
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I was tempted to have Mike Lull shave the neck of an ES125 a few years ago. He said it was not uncommon, expensive or difficult if you know what you're doing but in the end I decided against it. Jump ahead a few years and I still have the 125 but now I love the neck and I'm glad I didn't alter it. My needs changed as my style developed. For years I wanted my guitars to have a very similar neck. Now I like different neck shapes, depending on what I'm doing... some better lend themselves to different styles.
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Besides, you run the risk of having it come back from a shave sounding...different. Tinny 175?
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Oh Jabberwocky the hairs are standing up in the back of my neck.
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I do it all the time. I customize guitars for players, from the cheapest stock to the exotic customs. That, and electronics replacements are the two changes that people feel.
If it bothers you as an idea, don't do it.
If you think there's something sacred about a guitar the moment it rolls off the factory floor, don't do it.
It you can see yourself selling it again, don't do it.
If you're really not sure and you've never played an instrument set up EXACTLY the way you want, then don't do it.
If, however, you have an instrument that's a keeper and your hands just can't handle the neck, and you're a real player, then it can be done.
It's always been my belief that everyone's hands are different, and I customize neck contours to fit a player. Properly done, it can fit your hand to the instrument, the neck to your hand.
I look at hand size, finger size, playing style, and I have lots of examples in the shop so a player can try something and feel if it's right.
A player who plays thumb on the back of the neck might get a slight flat on the treble side, an asymmetrical D that allows the greatest support plus movement flexibility. Thumb over the bass strings requires a different neck.
Long ago I realized this kind of customization was something that made a handbuilt guitar a real "fit" for a player. After I worked with a lot of instruments coming out of my factory experience, I saw a lot of necks that were chunkier than they needed to be. It doesn't take a lot to customize a neck for a real player. AND it doesn't take a lot to ruin an instrument forever.
That's the bottom line.
David
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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
Fast forward 10 years, I'm working with a group of acoustical engineer/luthiers and there's a LOT of work being done on neck, body and air resonances. And the luther I was working with at the time did a lot of work with acoustics. He built a really nice guitar, but it didn't carry. Something in the sound was weak on the decay envelope. We could see it on the scope. We could hear it, and we could feel it in the guitar.
Alan (the luthier) checked the resonance of the neck and sure enough it was just a few HZ off of a crucial peak in the body resonance. It was stealing resonant energy.
He drilled a hole in the headstock top, melted lead and ballast loaded the headstock with a tiny amount of weight, crafted the end grain plug so it was invisible and yah. The guitar sounded like somebody turned the amp up 3 notches and it felt absolutely rock solid to play... and it projected across the room like a rifle.
Got to be careful when getting to a crucially close proximity to a mass/stiffness curve crossing. The mass goes a long way before it changes anything, but the moment it touches the stiffness curve, the change is exponential.
Just another thing to think about. Yeah, find a luthier that knows his business.
David
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Interesting post. Not much this simpleton can add. Except his opinion.
The 175 has been legendary for over 60 years. And, no one can really figure out why..
My theory is: the guitar is what it is, because of the sum of all its parts.
Your guitar is your guitar and you can do whatever you want with it. I happen to think it is really cool that you want to make your 175 fit you, instead of offing it and buying something else. 175's are special goto guitars that attach themselves to your heart.
I sincerely hope that any modification you wish to make doesn't alter the guitar in a negative way.
Please report back to us and let us know if anything else was affected after you shave the neck (other than the neck profile, duh..)
Joe D
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Has anyone mentioned that if you have the neck reshaped, then it also has to be refinished? I've seen it done and we've did few for customers as well but because of the refinishing it was always a lot more expensive than people anticipated. I would add that it rarely seemed to make anyone happy so they would then have to sell the guitar anyway but with a modified neck. It can be done and it gets done fairly often but I think it's not a very good idea. Among other things, how can anyone possibly know if a guitar really is a "keeper" if they can't even get comfortable with the neck.
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Different direction but somewhat related. I have roasted maple necks on my Strat and Tele. No finish. They are both medium vee profiles and on the thick side. I could easily reshape them and not have to do any finishing. I know that it doesn't pertain to a 175, but if anyone wants to experiment with neck profiling, a partscaster with a roasted maple neck is an alternative.
Last edited by lammie200; 07-26-2017 at 12:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
But over time, on a clear original coat, they've come from really close to convincingly matched. Even indistinguishable. On a coloured original, uh uh, it's really tricky. Aniline dye matching on a fresh finish changes over time as it ages.
I do respect what you're saying about the reluctance to make that modification. I guess only the owner can know how much it matters. I'll say I've owned many guitars and most of them I've done neck work, and in all those cases, the comfort of the "new" neck was what attracted subsequent owners to the guitar. A really comfortable neck is a joy to play.
You know when someone picks up just the right neck, and says "Whoa! This NECK!".
David
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Well, I don't think a guitar is untouchable once it leaves the factory. That's nonsense.
But the 175 is such an icon, plus it has resale value... I wouldn't do anything to the guitar except reversible changes (parts, nuts, strings, etc.) I'm not a collector, but I have a love and admiration for what has come before.
Also, I don't think you mentioned the year of the guitar. I'm assuming it's a fairly late model, which admittedly mitigates the issue a bit. However, I just wouldn't do it! You risk turning a guitar you say you love into something that's "never been quite the same."
There are a million 175s out there. One is perfect for you. Find that one, sell this one to someone who it's perfect for! Everybody wins.
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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Thanks guys we are getting deep, love it. Terrific responses and all on point. Interesting none from someone that has done it.
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I almost made it done. Bought a Custom Shop 1956 Reissue Les Paul Goldtop about a decade ago and boy its THICK neck was a surprise. After year or two I called to most experienced luthier in the city and asked him to shave the neck thinner.
He refused. He said all the arguments that has been here: shaving destroys the sound and the resale value etc. "Get used to it" he said.
I did. Now I love big necks. And now I understand that in the neck hides a great part of the guitar's personal sound. Less wood, less sound!
Millions of guitarists have cried over the pencil necks of certain decades of ES-175s' (Norlin era?). Get one of them!
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Originally Posted by gggomezOriginally Posted by gggomez
From Post #13
I do it all the time. I customize guitars for players, from the cheapest stock to the exotic customs. That, and electronics replacements are the two changes that people feel.
I've shaved necks and recontoured the curve. When I'm building a custom guitar from scratch, it's what you do. When you have a guitar that has a really beefy neck, it's something you can do.
But then again, I don't see a guitar as a "classic" but as a piece of wood some musician might play. Maybe that builder on that day decided to build the neck a bit fatter than the luthier at the other end of the shop. Maybe the guitar is really nice aside from that factour. Anyway, an interesting discussion and I hope there's a wide enough spectrum of responses that the OP can shut it off and make a decision that will make him happy.
gggomez, best of luck. ' hope you find the magic one way or another and for you and the instrument you find, play long and keep growing.
David
The Epiphone Zephyr Regent I had was almost perfect. I changed the machines, dropped a Duncan pickup in and carved the neck to my hand. If it were for a customer, I'd have black lacquered the neck. It was mine and I happen to love mahogany.
For me, it's perfect now.
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Don't do it. It will almost certainly change the tone of the guitar and likely not in a good way.
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Originally Posted by rolijen
I've got over a dozen of these alterations that have been done, and it doesn't mean going at it with a chainsaw. Sometimes just changing the shape from a heavy C shape to a contoured D shape or something like on the back of a JP-20, is going to make a difference. It doesn't take a lot to make a huge change in the feel.
There are reasons to do it, and reasons not to. There are degrees of removal and there are horror stories, I'm sure. Done right, and if the neck is really beefy to begin with, and the grain is true and on the quarter, changing the tone is not the thing you should fear.
Do ES-175's with beefy necks sound better than ones with a more moderate amount of wood? If so, it's news to me.
Just to be straight, I am NOT saying you should. That's your decision. I'm saying know the consequences and know the experience I've had. Just so you can make an informed decision.
David
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