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Here is my problem: I enjoy playing my Guild x-175 (1980) but I have a surgically repaired right shoulder and playing it makes the shoulder ache and tighten up. One thing I wish was better on the Guild is its acoustic tone. Given that, does anyone have thoughts on how much less deep (shallower?) an archtop can be than the Guild (which I believe is 3-3/8" deep) and still have a pretty good acoustic sound?
And I wouldn't object to suggestions on makes and models that might fit the bill assuming a budget of ~$5k or thereabouts.
Thanks.
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06-14-2017 02:15 PM
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If you go full hollow like an Epiphone Casino you might be surprised how much you get out of the acoustic sound. Anything with a block or sound post at the bridge like a 335 is not going to sound very acoustic IMHO.
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I like my D'Angelico Excel. I am not sure how deep it is but I could play that thing all day
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There have been two excellent recommendations so far, and they are the same ones I would recommend.
The MIJ Epiphone Elitist Casinos are excellent instruments, although you could buy a vintage 60s one in that price range. They have skinny necks though. The usual nut width is 1 9/16", so keep that in mind.
The Johnny Smith is a truly great instrument. My 1968 is my number one guitar at home. It might be hard to find one for 5k though. I have two for sale, a 1976 and a 1980. I'm asking 6k for the 1980.
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Great suggestions. Thanks. The Heritage Johnny Smith looks nice though I'd likely be looking for a shortish scale and 1-11/16" nut. I've never played an Epi Casino - I'll try to hunt one down.
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If you are looking on the lower end Epi also offers a Casino Coupe which has an even smaller body than the Casino. Same depth I think.
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Those Johnny Smiths you have listed are real beauts, by the way.
Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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Have you tried positioning it like a classical guitar? Check out Steve Herberman and John Stowell.
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I have and - while it is hard to isolate cause and effect (and I've been playing in an acoustic band lately as well) - I am sore afterwards. Will try again. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Gibson L4? Heritage Sweet 16?
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With a budget of 5k, you'll get 10 Epi Casino at least ! but I'm not sure you'll be convinced by the acoustic sound, it just depends on what you're after.
Regarding your shoulder, have you been able to determine if this is the width or the depth of the guitar body that makes you hurt ? This will help you to narrow the field.
As for archtops with nice acoustic sound, my Heritage Sweet 16 is lovely (2-3/4" body depth). Just beside is my Eastman AR503CE (something like 2-9/16" body depth, but 1-3/4" nut) Both have spruce carved tops.
If you want to go further in decreasing body depth, you may consider Eastman T146 (1-3/4" body depth but 1-3/4" nut)(no personal experience though), it's a kind of a shallow AR503.
These can be found for much less than 5k.
Happy hunting ! and keep us informed
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I missed the part about the $5k. The OP can find something much nicer than those Epi's for that kind of scratch. My bad.
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The Heritage looks nice. I haven't figured out if it is depth or width. Probably a lot of it is age (mine)! Originally Posted by 339 in june
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BTW, I screwed up my fret arm shoulder twice in 6 months with bike accidents. I can still feel discomfort, but I use a 20 lb. dumbell to keep it as strong as possible. I mimic throwing a football slowly with it. Seems to help a lot.
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Samsondale,
Please double-check that it is the width , and not the bout width that is giving you trouble.
I get the same (sore shoulder) playing my HUGE 18" Epi Emperor, however, when I switch to
a smaller bout 17" (with same body depth) i have no issues..
However, since a 175 is the culprit, this point may be rendered moot.
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Many, many choices!
Heritage Sweet 16 and H-575 both are 2 3/4" deep and 16" wide. You'll get a good carved wood sound in a smaller package.
The Casino is thinner but a real winner also.
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Agree. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
Another good option is the early version of the Hofner Thin President - these are 2 1/2" deep and 15 7/8" wide, with carved tops, and laminated backs and sides.
- Sweet Sixteen scale is typically 25 1/2"
- H-575 scale is typically 24 3/4"
- Thin President scale is 25 1/4"
Other options, more expensive than the three listed above:
- L-5CT - thinline version of the L-5C -2 5/16" deep, 17" wide, scale is typically 25 1/2"
- Campellone - Mark would be happy to build you a fully-carved thinline 16" or 17" - his options and pricing are listed on his site.
Many options with carved wood/floating pickups, 3" deep rims and 17" wide, all a bit smaller and more huggable than a classic 17" with deeper rims from Gibson or Guild:
- Heritage Johnny Smith
- Heritage Golden Eagle
- Gibson Legrand
- Gibson Johnny Smith
- Hofner Chancellor
and more
Of course, trying them for fit and comfort makes sense.Last edited by Hammertone; 06-15-2017 at 10:13 AM.
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Lower than your price range, but the Eastman T146 is a choice. I have a T145, which is the older, now discontinued 15" bout version. It's 1.75" in depth, and with the carved spruce top it's surprisingly loud. There isn't as much bass response as you'd get in a full depth carved top guitar, but it's acceptable to me. I think it sounds better than my flat tops, and is actually louder. Eastman is making some very nice guitars, at a reasonable price. For $5K, a Benedetto Bravo is available, although it's a laminate top. I've never played one, but audio examples sound pretty good. I'd like one, but it's over the CFO's budget.
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You need what we cyclist call a professional fit. I would suggest you get a good physical therapist and have them check you out. Let them see how you play and what muscles and tendons your are stressing. This will be all on your dime but if you can get a really good one that knows the body and how is functions based on loads and stress it will be the gold mine you need. Sounds crazy but these things I know from my background in sports medicine and medical. Doctors will deal with pain and diagnosis but PT will be looking to get you in line for painless playing.
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samsondale,
Nice to meet you.
I agree with deacon Mark.
Learned about this from personal experience.
Of course you have to do the exercises, whatever they may be.
Don't interpret this as encouraging you not to buy another guitar!
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Thank you for the excellent suggestion. The sad part is that I am counsel for a health system. My shoulder doc says that my subscapularis is the culprit (my surgery was for a torn labrum). I have the PT scrip - just have to fill it. I will have to look hard for someone who can do what you suggest (which sounds like it would indeed be a gold mine). Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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I would strive for budget neutrality and net negative in total instruments. CEO would have no objections to that (I hope). I will check out the Eastman and the Bravo clips. I wonder if something like a Campellone might be the ticket once funds are in place. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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At least for me, the size of the lower bout is at least as important as the depth. I'd suggest taking a look at some 15" guitars as a possible alternative. They're not common but there's more of them all the time. The Sadowsky SS-15 might be a really nice option and it's right at your price point.
Last edited by Jim Soloway; 06-15-2017 at 11:36 AM.
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I was talking about MY CFO, also known as SWMBO. The Benedetto is over her budget.I would strive for budget neutrality and net negative in total instruments. CEO would have no objections to that (I hope).
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For ~$5K you can get almost anything you want! Too many great builders to list here!
For arm/shoulder problems, though, I'd highly recommend a "klein-style" ergonomic guitar; makers like Chris Forshage, Victor Baker, etc. (there's a small group of them) can make a comfortable, light guitar that sits perfectly in your lap, and sounds great!
Here's a recent Forshage "hollowbody archtop" example:
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