What is a pre-amp?

**pmgnut** · 08-26-2009, 03:20 PM

Can someone explain to me exactly what a pre-amp is, and what it does?

Jazzarian · 08-26-2009, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by pmgnut

Can someone explain to me exactly what a pre-amp is, and what it does?

It boosts the guitar signal to "Line Out" voltage, suitable for recording.

I have an all tube Boogie Formula Pre (amp) and TC Electronics G Major processor (reverb) I use for recording. It features "speaker emulation", as if an amp were being mic-ed. Stereo outputs!

Mesa Boogie Formula Preamp Closeup

**pmgnut** · 08-26-2009, 04:10 PM

So, if I am not doing any recording, is a pre-amp not needed, or do some still use one even though they are not recording?

Jazzarian · 08-26-2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by pmgnut

So, if I am not doing any recording, is a pre-amp not needed, or do some still use one even though they are not recording?

Another use of a preamp is to be used with a power amp and speakers.

If I have no need of amplification, I don't use any amps or preamps. I often use my archtops in acoustic mode.

**pmgnut** · 08-26-2009, 04:16 PM

Basically, my set up is a hollow body Ibanez, marshall valvestate 100w amp and a lexicon effects unit hooked up in the loop in back of the amp.Would a preamp improve on the sound in this kind of setup ?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-26-2009, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by pmgnut

Basically, my set up is a hollow body Ibanez, marshall valvestate 100w amp and a lexicon effects unit hooked up in the loop in back of the amp.Would a preamp improve on the sound in this kind of setup ?

What's wrong with the sound now?

Anyway:

1. Don't all guitar amps have a preamp and a power amp? Am I missing something here?
2. The ValveState (just like its name) is a hybrid amp, right? With a tube preamp and a SS power amp? Is it clean enough for Jazz?

**derek** · 08-26-2009, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

What's wrong with the sound now?

Anyway:

1. Don't all guitar amps have a preamp and a power amp? Am I missing something here?
2. The ValveState (just like its name) is a hybrid amp, right? With a tube preamp and a SS power amp? Is it clean enough for Jazz?

Right. Preamps are used for recording without an amp as Jazzarian pointed out, and to get the sound you want if you are using just a nonspecific power amp. So theoretically you could go into a good tube based guitar preamp, and out to the board directly. Then either use an in ear system or regular monitors for stage volume.

That is basically what a POD and other modelers are doing.

Jazzarian · 08-26-2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by pmgnut

Can someone explain to me exactly what a pre-amp is, and what it does?

Some pedals are true preamps. Some actually have tubes, like the Boogie V-Twin.

You could use such if you wanted a Boogie distortion sound.

Jazzarian · 08-26-2009, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by derek

Right. Preamps are used for recording without an amp as Jazzarian pointed out, and to get the sound you want if you are using just a nonspecific power amp. So theoretically you could go into a good tube based guitar preamp, and out to the board directly. Then either use an in ear system or regular monitors for stage volume.

That is basically what a POD and other modelers are doing.

Modelers do weird things with clean tones. My POD X3 Live being a perfect example. It's like the DSP processing needs a few milliseconds to decide what to do with the note. Its vintage Fender models all seemed to do the same.

Modelers work great for emulating big distortion amps. The X3 Live has fine Soldano SLO100 and Boogie Mark IIC+ patches.

**pmgnut** · 08-27-2009, 08:23 AM

Nothing is wrong with the sound now, I actually like it very much. I am just trying to learn what a preamp is, what it does and if adding it to my setup would make things sound any different.

**pmgnut** · 08-27-2009, 08:26 AM

Posted by bigdaddy :"The ValveState (just like its name) is a hybrid amp, right? With a tube preamp and a SS power amp? Is it clean enough for Jazz"

Yes, it has a tube preamp and I can manage to get a nice clean sound out of it for jazz. I tried many amps in the store and decided on this one, as it had a nice rich, warm sound, unlike some of the line 6 amps I tried which in my humble opinion sounded a bit tinny.

**derek** · 08-27-2009, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Modelers do weird things with clean tones. My POD X3 Live being a perfect example. It's like the DSP processing needs a few milliseconds to decide what to do with the note. Its vintage Fender models all seemed to do the same.

Modelers work great for emulating big distortion amps. The X3 Live has fine Soldano SLO100 and Boogie Mark IIC+ patches.

I never graduated past the POD 2.0, and the blackface and JC120 settings are both passable. I agree though, they seem to shine doing the distortion thing.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-27-2009, 03:09 PM

pmgnut, we seem to be going off on tangents here. Have we answered your question? Do you still think you need another preamp, besides the one in your amp?

And you say the ValveState had the best jazz tone in the music store. Did they have any primarily jazz amps: Polytone, Acoustic Image, Evans, Phil Jones, Henriksen, JazzKat?

Jazzarian · 08-27-2009, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by derek

I never graduated past the POD 2.0, and the blackface and JC120 settings are both passable. I agree though, they seem to shine doing the distortion thing.

Did you notice the funnies I mentioned with the clean settings? Something about the initial "pling", the leading edge of the waveform, whatever. It drives me nuts with an archtop.

Not bad for clean Strat rhythm use, but for serious archtop work...........

Jazzarian · 08-27-2009, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by pmgnut

Posted by bigdaddy :"The ValveState (just like its name) is a hybrid amp, right? With a tube preamp and a SS power amp? Is it clean enough for Jazz"

Yes, it has a tube preamp and I can manage to get a nice clean sound out of it for jazz. I tried many amps in the store and decided on this one, as it had a nice rich, warm sound, unlike some of the line 6 amps I tried which in my humble opinion sounded a bit tinny.

Were there any Fender (all tube amps) in the store? They're kind of the old school standard for jazz guitar.

Marshall has never been known to make good jazz amps.

You might want to look into those tube pedals. That might suffice. Or someday maybe you'll want to save up for a Fender Deluxe Reverb or something along those lines.

Jazzarian · 08-27-2009, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

pmgnut, we seem to be going off on tangents here. Have we answered your question? Do you still think you need another preamp, besides the one in your amp?

And you say the ValveState had the best jazz tone in the music store. Did they have any primarily jazz amps: Polytone, Acoustic Image, Evans, Phil Jones, Henriksen, JazzKat?

Doesn't EVERY Guitar Center have those?

**pmgnut** · 08-27-2009, 03:21 PM

Well, my budget forced me to buy something used. Most amps in their used section were Marshall, Fender and Line 6. I tried all three and several models of each. The valvestate seemed to have a much warmer, richer sound, and the price was right for my budget at the time.

Jazzarian · 08-27-2009, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by pmgnut

Well, my budget forced me to buy something used. Most amps in their used section were Marshall, Fender and Line 6. I tried all three and several models of each. The valvestate seemed to have a much warmer, richer sound, and the price was right for my budget at the time.

Fender has a lineup of modeling type amps to compete with Line 6. I'm sure they're equally crappy.

Real Fenders, with tubes should sound really good for jazz. I don't know which models you listened to.

Hey, use what ya got now, save up some dough. Who knows, you might like transistor jazz amps like Polytone, Evans and the like.

**Anandbhat** · 08-29-2009, 07:06 AM

My acoustic has a 'piezo' pick up that has a harsh,tinny sound when played directly through the PA. I have an old BBE 386 acoustic pre amp that makes a world of a difference. The main problem with the pick ups that come with acoustic guitars is that they emphasize the mid range frequencies. I see that BBE has come out with a new pre amp specially meant for acoustic guitars.

**Fidelcaster** · 08-29-2009, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Anandbhat

My acoustic has a 'piezo' pick up that has a harsh,tinny sound when played directly through the PA. I have an old BBE 386 acoustic pre amp that makes a world of a difference. The main problem with the pick ups that come with acoustic guitars is that they emphasize the mid range frequencies. I see that BBE has come out with a new pre amp specially meant for acoustic guitars.

In another (Italian) forum, a person wrote that he got an excellent amplified sound, adding a magnetic pick up (just an underwound stratocaster pick up) to his acoustic, which already had a piezo. The guitar now has two distinct outputs, which are amplified differently.
I've read that many builders combine piezoelectric and magnetic pick up.

**derek** · 08-29-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Did you notice the funnies I mentioned with the clean settings? Something about the initial "pling", the leading edge of the waveform, whatever. It drives me nuts with an archtop.

Not bad for clean Strat rhythm use, but for serious archtop work...........

No I haven't. However, it seemed to take infinite tweaking to get a sound I did like for jazz. Here is a buddy of mine who gets a very nice jazz tone with a more recent POD.

YouTube - Kanaal van dutchbopper

**Anandbhat** · 08-29-2009, 01:00 PM

Fishman makes nice products for acoutic guitars. I have a fishman 'acoustic blend' on one of my guitars.It's a combination of an active pick up with an internal mic. I was at a fingerstyle guitar performance once and the guy had a little Ibanez amp for acoustic guitar.I was so impressed that I picked one up ( It's pretty inexpensive).The only effect it has is chorus.Nice sound though.It gets rid of a lot of the brittle sound on the piezo pick up.Carvin AGD 100 is also a good choice since you can also add a mic and base guitar or keyboard.