L-5 and Gibson metal cleaner

[skittles]

The underside of the offending pickguard. Cannot say I ever examined it before so I don't know what affect time has had: just sharing for collective benefit. Thankfully, the finish underneath looks fine.


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[vinnyv1k]

Parts is Parts sells very nice 5 ply beveled edge black pickguards for L5's for $38.00. They are made for Wesmo's so you would need to route it for the rear pickup. They also have the mounting hardware. Black guards don't gas out.
The part no. is PG501-19.

[ThatRhythmMan]

This is a Johnny Smith. You can see the damage to the pickup, top left. I think at least some of finish damage this is from the old pickguard.

[Max405]

RhythmMan, You just broke my heart.
JD

[wintermoon]

The underside of the offending pickguard. Cannot say I ever examined it before so I don't know what affect time has had: just sharing for collective benefit. Thankfully, the finish underneath looks fine.


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it looks like someone glued another piece of plastic on the bottom.
no idea what's going on there.

[lawson-stone]

Yeah, that's off-gassing from the pickguard. The pickguard may not be obviously deteriorating, either. What's happening is that the plastic in the guard is giving off esters that are interacting chemically with the pickup cover (and the screw) and producing a reaction of the brass in the parts. Brass has copper and zinc in it. The copper is producing the green copper sulphate from this reaction. It looks like the patina on the Statue of Liberty.

The pickguard is probably perfectly usable, but if the guitar is left in the case for long periods of time, the production of a patina on the pickguard edges of the pickups will continue.

One thing is certain: the gold plating on the pickup covers and other parts is super thin. Using a cleaning product, or even repeated rubbing with a cloth, will remove the plating. I always figured that over time owning a guitar with gold-plated parts would result in a guitar with nickel-covered parts (with a few traces of gold).

Heritage Guitars uses wooden pickguards to avoid this problem. The gold-plated pickups on my 2001 Super Eagle still look basically new.

How significant is keeping the guitar in the case for aggravating this? Am I correct that the guitar in the open air is not as likely to show the metal deteriorating because the gasses are escaping into he larger atmosphere?

[Frank67]

I have a 70s Super 400 that had a badly gassing pickguard. Eventually, it drove me crazy and I had a luthier make me an ebony one. I keep the original if I ever want to sell the guitar, but the ebony one not only looks much better but also leaves the hardware alone.

[ThatRhythmMan]

RhythmMan, You just broke my heart.
JD

You can't see it with the new pickguard on though.

[rio]

if it's the orig guard and dying I'd seriously recommend replacing it.

Why's that, just to save the headache or is there a potential that it could hurt the guitar even out of the case? My L5 is from '70 and it does look like it is 47 years old haha... it is very far from mint. I am afraid that a shiny new guard would look out of place.


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[wintermoon]

it'll corrode the parts whether it's in the case or not, just more slowly than if it's kept in a closed case.
you'll notice greening/tarnish/rust on the strings and upper frets, toggle and pickups.
I bet if you look inside the case lid you'll see the plush burned by the offgassing.

no good can come by leaving it on there, it's caustic stuff.
a new guard will look fine, other than pick marks it'll look about the same age wise.

[rio]

Oh ok - that's good to know. Thanks a lot. The case I got it with (the original case) definitely shows the outgassing.


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[Greentone]

wintermoon is correct. Outgassing is going to corrode the _proximate_ parts, i.e., the parts near the pickguard. FWIW, old Kluson tulip tipped tuning gears (the ones on Gibson Les Pauls, ES-335s, ES-175s, etc.) will also outgas in some instances. You will notice that they will darken, get smaller, and start tarnishing stuff up in that area of the guitar.

As wintermoon notes the outgassing is going to occur in or out of the case. Leaving the guitar in the case is going to make matters much, much worse.

Remedy: change pickguards. Don't put the old pickguard back in the case.

[Max405]

Ok, my heart is better now..

You can't see it with the new pickguard on though. Er

[icr]

I'd not lose any sleep over a pickup cover. Not any more than over tarnished strings. Just get a new cover.

[oldane]

FWIW, old Kluson tulip tipped tuning gears (the ones on Gibson Les Pauls, ES-335s, ES-175s, etc.) will also outgas in some instances. You will notice that they will darken, get smaller, and start tarnishing stuff up in that area of the guitar.

That happened to the original tuners of my 1961 ES175 which was kept in a plastic bag after they were replaced with Schaller tuners many years ago. A metal saxophone mouthpiece which was kept in the same drawer next to the bag with the tuners became seriously decolorated. DON'T take outgassing lightly! Get rotting pickguards and other celluloid items away from the guitars and out of the cases.

"Guaranteed against faulty workmanship and

materials?"
What is Gibson's "Lifetime Warranty" position on this ?.

I don't think it will be covered under warranty. Decomposing and outgassing is how celluloid behaves though the speed of visible onset seems to vary. It's by nature an unstable material. One can see the same on some old wood slide rules which had the scales engraved on a thin top ply of white celluloid as well as on a lot of other items made of celluloid.

In this case, I'm with the others recommending a replacement pickguard made of ebony.

[Marty Grass]

I guess that is well past the "mojo" point, whatever mojo is.

Great pic.

if a guitar gets stored for a long time you'll end up w/this....

[ArtWerk Orange]

So that green beauty is a Guild? I love the overall look. Heritage is where you had the pickguard made? I am checking them out not. Thanks.

[Jimmy Mack]

Yeah, it sucks. Back when, before the internet, I had a Johnny Smith, stored it in the case. Hell, isn't that the safest place for it????

Every time I went to play it, the strings were rusted. Not fun - you can't clean and salvage rusted Flatwound ($$$) strings.

Didn't know anything about off-gassing. Then I read that the case , and the glue they used, could have been off-gassing.

Now I have an L5, that I picked up at a discount because the P/G was gone. OK, but the p/up covers are a mess. AT least the tailpiece is still very attractive. Picked up a replacement P/G on Ebay for $100.00, but it lacks some of the beauty of the original.

Moving on.