Jazz Guitar Amps: Lost in the SS Desert for 40 years

**mattymel** · 08-22-2009, 04:12 PM

im sorry. im an admitted gear head and i also love jazz guitar. i just have to rant here that i cant stand SS amps...period. not for jazz, not for anything. i have had plenty. polytones, rolands, all the "jazzer" amps.

its hard enough playing jazz on guitar. one of the reasons i feel like horn players dont get into guitarist as much is their sounds are lifeless. i think that alot of this has to do with SS amps.

once you learn how to make a hollowbody work with the right tube amp, there is no comparison. it can take a while and a number of different amps to find the right one.

of course this is admittedly personal opinion. but i listen to all the old records and there is something groovy about a good tube amp. i think that many jazz guitarist just get lazy when it comes to amps. doesnt make any sense to me.

for me, its all about a blackface princeton reverb. there...

**Andy Perri** · 08-22-2009, 04:28 PM

I hear what you are saying and we all get in different "moods" in terms of sound that we want to hear come from our rig. For a real jazzy "woody" sound, I like the polytone style..for a more soulful/Grant Green sound, a tube amp get us there. We all have different guitars for different gigs.

Jazzarian · 08-23-2009, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by mattymel

im sorry. im an admitted gear head and i also love jazz guitar. i just have to rant here that i cant stand SS amps...period. not for jazz, not for anything. i have had plenty. polytones, rolands, all the "jazzer" amps.

its hard enough playing jazz on guitar. one of the reasons i feel like horn players dont get into guitarist as much is their sounds are lifeless. i think that alot of this has to do with SS amps.

once you learn how to make a hollowbody work with the right tube amp, there is no comparison. it can take a while and a number of different amps to find the right one.

of course this is admittedly personal opinion. but i listen to all the old records and there is something groovy about a good tube amp. i think that many jazz guitarist just get lazy when it comes to amps. doesnt make any sense to me.

for me, its all about a blackface princeton reverb. there...

I tend to agree about tubes. Their inherent natural compression really helps for guitar. I highly recommend tube preamps for recording. Best way to go when teamed up with a first rate processor-reverb unit.

I tend to like the classic Fender Deluxe/Princeton/Twin/Bassman sounds.

I own a Polytone and an old Acoustic450, and have played thru a few Evans, probably a JC120 too. They're nice enough, but.....

Geez, my Boogie Mark IIC+ sounds better than the Polytone!

**derek** · 08-24-2009, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by mattymel

im sorry. im an admitted gear head and i also love jazz guitar. i just have to rant here that i cant stand SS amps...period. not for jazz, not for anything. i have had plenty. polytones, rolands, all the "jazzer" amps.

its hard enough playing jazz on guitar. one of the reasons i feel like horn players dont get into guitarist as much is their sounds are lifeless. i think that alot of this has to do with SS amps.

once you learn how to make a hollowbody work with the right tube amp, there is no comparison. it can take a while and a number of different amps to find the right one.

of course this is admittedly personal opinion. but i listen to all the old records and there is something groovy about a good tube amp. i think that many jazz guitarist just get lazy when it comes to amps. doesnt make any sense to me.

for me, its all about a blackface princeton reverb. there...

I certainly understand your preference to tube amps. I like'em too. However, in the past several years, I can only think of two pro jazz players I have seen live who played tubes. Steve Cardness and John Scofield. Everyone else is playing ss.

As far as horn players not getting into guitarists because of their tone, that is a stretch. Jim Hall, Jimmy Bruno, Pat Martino, John Pizzarelli, John Stowell, Bucky Pizzarelli, Jack Wilkins, Joe Diorio, Joe Pass, Frank Vignola, etc, are (were) all ss players.

The reality is, when you are traveling, you either bring something very light like a AI/RE combo, or you use what the club has available, which is probably gonna be a Roland JC or the like.

**mattymel** · 08-24-2009, 01:02 PM

of all the players you listed, jim hall is the only one that any horn horn players i know dig. it goes beyond his tone though. to be fair, his phrasing is way better as well.

**derek** · 08-24-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by mattymel

of all the players you listed, jim hall is the only one that any horn horn players i know dig. it goes beyond his tone though. to be fair, his phrasing is way better as well.

??? You speaking for all horn players? If Pat Martino wanted a horn player, you think guys wouldn't line up for that gig?

Jazzarian · 08-24-2009, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by derek

??? You speaking for all horn players? If Pat Martino wanted a horn player, you think guys wouldn't line up for that gig?

Not to mention Benson, Rosenwinkel, Malone, Bernstein, Bruno, Alden, Burrell, Pizzarelli.............

**mattymel** · 08-26-2009, 05:29 PM

sure they would line up to get paid bu martino. then they would go home and listen to rosenwinkel because he has all the modern harmonic approach of any horn player. but pretty much any other guitarist isnt getting that much listening time from horn players. face the facts. i know way more horn players that are into wes and benson (good phrasing) than anybody else on that list. not saying they arent good players. but sax and trumpet players want to hear phrasing, not alternate picking. anyway, tube amps...benson and wes played them on their best records.

**mr. beaumont** · 08-27-2009, 03:55 AM

mattymel, with all due respect, i don't think you've played with too many horn players...what they want to hear is a cat who knows how to comp and stay out of their way! they could give a shit if your approach is similar to theirs!

**guavajelly** · 08-27-2009, 07:19 AM

oups, where is it going. I also like tube amps and a lot of jazz cats are using them, a twin seems to be more the standard gear in the clubs than the jazz chorus. anyway I can't imagine two horn players discussing a guitarist.
"did you hear so and so, he's good."
"yeah his choice of notes and timing is excellent, but he plays a solid state amp."
"oh, well, then ..."
"let's find someone with a real tube amp"

:-)

**mattymel** · 08-27-2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

mattymel, with all due respect, i don't think you've played with too many horn players...what they want to hear is a cat who knows how to comp and stay out of their way! they could give a shit if your approach is similar to theirs!

ha. point taken. but, i make it a point of playing with other instrument and not just other guitarists. every city i have lived in there are always the jazz guitar societies. and yeah, they all use SS amps. its silly. half of them have never played with a sax player.

**mr. beaumont** · 08-27-2009, 12:56 PM

do you think it's a matter of "gotta have solid state cuz that's whats cool now" or a matter of "what's convenient?"

i am a solid state player--tube amps just aren't for me anymore, but i got into them not really because i knew they were the "de rigeur" amp but for the weight and reliability issues...tube amps aren't as fragile as some people make them out to be, but clunking around a fifty pounder on the subway is a pretty easy way to damage one (not to mention damage your back!)

i played in rock groups for years, at places where you could pull your car up behind the club and unload mountains of gear, if you so chose...in the 6 or so years i've been gigging jazz almost exclusively, those kind of places aren't around...i'm literally hopping off the train or parking 6 blocks away (if i'm lucky) and walking right thru the front door with my guitar on my back and an amp in hand. right now, there just isn't a tube amp out there that i know without a doubt can be loud enough and clean enough for any room i walk into that doesn't weigh too much for me to consider (for me, walking a half mile with anything over 30lbs is out of the question...heck, now i'm even bringing my zt lunchbox and a redstone cab (18 lbs.) to some gigs where i know i'm going to have to hike it to...

over this time, i've actually grown to really like the SS clean sound. I just don't see me ever going back to tubes! (i'm like bizzaro you)

just sayin.' truth be told, if i was recording in a nice studio tomorrow, i'd probably want a tube amp there as well.

Jazzarian · 08-27-2009, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

do you think it's a matter of "gotta have solid state cuz that's whats cool now" or a matter of "what's convenient?"

i am a solid state player--tube amps just aren't for me anymore, but i got into them not really because i knew they were the "de rigeur" amp but for the weight and reliability issues...tube amps aren't as fragile as some people make them out to be, but clunking around a fifty pounder on the subway is a pretty easy way to damage one (not to mention damage your back!)

i played in rock groups for years, at places where you could pull your car up behind the club and unload mountains of gear, if you so chose...in the 6 or so years i've been gigging jazz almost exclusively, those kind of places aren't around...i'm literally hopping off the train or parking 6 blocks away (if i'm lucky) and walking right thru the front door with my guitar on my back and an amp in hand. right now, there just isn't a tube amp out there that i know without a doubt can be loud enough and clean enough for any room i walk into that doesn't weigh too much for me to consider (for me, walking a half mile with anything over 30lbs is out of the question...heck, now i'm even bringing my zt lunchbox and a redstone cab (18 lbs.) to some gigs where i know i'm going to have to hike it to...

over this time, i've actually grown to really like the SS clean sound. I just don't see me ever going back to tubes! (i'm like bizzaro you)

just sayin.' truth be told, if i was recording in a nice studio tomorrow, i'd probably want a tube amp there as well.

Oh yeah? Back in the day we used to walk 5 miles to a gig in the snow, carrying a Fender Twin Reverb.........

Jazzarian · 08-27-2009, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

mattymel, with all due respect, i don't think you've played with too many horn players...what they want to hear is a cat who knows how to comp and stay out of their way! they could give a shit if your approach is similar to theirs!

Indeed.

Amazing how those single note instrument players can demand so much of everyone else. How dare they. They tend to be a self-centered bunch.

Meanwhile guitarists and pianists struggle with inversions, parallel 5ths/octaves, substitutions etc.

**mattymel** · 08-27-2009, 05:45 PM

im not into twins either. im a one speaker kind of guy. ive got a headstrong lil king (boutique BF princeton reverb clone) on the way that is perfect for gigs. plenty loud and like 23 pounds or something. i'll put it up in an alley against a SS amp anyday. in all seriousness, i think dudes are just too mad about having to pay $3000+ for decent guitar to shell out another $$$G or 2 for a decent sounding tube amp. i dont blame you. i'll just have better tone (smiley face).

**ES350** · 08-29-2009, 10:50 AM

Whatever works---if you need to shlep a SS on the subway, that's what you are going to make work for ya. If you can get a Twin, that's great too...
Guitar players in general spend way too much time fussing over this stuff...

Archie · 08-29-2009, 11:14 AM

... when we should be practicing. Mea culpa.

**nick gagg** · 09-17-2009, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Oh yeah? Back in the day we used to walk 5 miles to a gig in the snow, carrying a Fender Twin Reverb.........

it displaced the earths crust under our feet as we slowly moved along....

Jazzarian · 09-17-2009, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by nick gagg

it displaced the earths crust under our feet as we slowly moved along....

That's how Yellowstone was created. Early settlers strapped Twin Reverbs to the backs to bison.

**ES350** · 09-17-2009, 02:47 PM

I do remember a gig someplace on the road where my ride was leaving without me (thinking I was in another car)...I had to run across a football field carrrying my guitar and a Pro Reverb with Altecs in it to catch them...that was enough for me.