Single Pickup Gibson ES-175 vs. ES-165 Herb Ellis

**helios** · 04-16-2017, 05:15 PM

In this video, Joe pass gets some great tone from an (I presume older) single pickup version of an ES-175 while being accompanied by the talented Bob Magnusson on upright bass.
How would this guitar differ from an ES-165 Herb Ellis?

**docbop** · 04-16-2017, 05:24 PM

That guitar was custom made for Joe by Gibson towards the end of his life. It's a 175 with a thin body, and single PUP mounted by the neck instead of down a little like a normal 175. It's a one of kind not a production model. He's also going direct no amp, I like the sound others don't.

**Ray175** · 04-16-2017, 05:28 PM

Very little difference
The single pickuo 175 was discontinued in 1971 and the 165 more or less relpaced it when it came out in1991
other than the HE name on the headstock,and a floating BJB pickup from 2004 onwards it's essentially the same instrument

**helios** · 04-16-2017, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

That guitar was custom made for Joe by Gibson towards the end of his life. It's a 175 with a thin body, and single PUP mounted by the neck instead of down a little like a normal 175. It's a one of kind not a production model. He's also going direct no amp, I like the sound others don't.

"He's also going direct no amp"

Hi,
His guitar sounds amplified to me (and I see a cable plugged into it). Am I not understanding what you are saying? Thanks for the details about the guitar BTW!

**docbop** · 04-16-2017, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by helios

"He's also going direct no amp"

Hi,
His guitar sounds amplified to me (and I see a cable plugged into it). Am I not understanding what you are saying? Thanks for the details about the guitar BTW!

The guitar is going into a DI and staight into the house PA system so it not and mic'd amp.

That video is from the A Night With Joe Pass DVD and he talks about the guitar and that he likes going direct at the time. That video was done not long before he died.

Amazon.com: An Evening With Joe Pass: Joe Pass: Movies & TV

**pubylakeg** · 04-16-2017, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by helios

In this video, Joe pass gets some great tone from an (I presume older) single pickup version of an ES-175 while being accompanied by the talented Bob Magnusson on upright bass.
How would this guitar differ from an ES-165 Herb Ellis?

Originally Posted by docbop

That guitar was custom made for Joe by Gibson towards the end of his life. It's a 175 with a thin body, and single PUP mounted by the neck instead of down a little like a normal 175. It's a one of kind not a production model. He's also going direct no amp, I like the sound others don't.

Anyone know if this instrument had a maple neck ?

**lawson-stone** · 04-16-2017, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ray175

Very little difference
The single pickuo 175 was discontinued in 1971 and the 165 more or less relpaced it when it came out in1991
other than the HE name on the headstock,and a floating BJB pickup from 2004 onwards it's essentially the same instrument

That's not the case with this particular guitar. Joe talks about it in the interview on that particular DVD. Gibson made for him custom. It's thinner than the usual 175/165. The one pickup is mounted right at the end of the fingerboard, not closer to the bridge as with the neck position on the 175/165.

That was a one-off guitar, not ever a production model.

**vinlander** · 04-16-2017, 06:52 PM

also looks like it could have an ebony finger board or at least a dark shiny rosewood

**Stringswinger** · 04-16-2017, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

That's not the case with this particular guitar. Joe talks about it in the interview on that particular DVD. Gibson made for him custom. It's thinner than the usual 175/165. The one pickup is mounted right at the end of the fingerboard, not closer to the bridge as with the neck position on the 175/165.

That was a one-off guitar, not ever a production model.

Lawson,

John Pisano told me that Gibson made two of these and sent them to Joe. When Joe Died, Gibson told Ellen Pass (Joe's widow) to send one back and keep one. I presume that Henry J. or some Gibson exec has the one that was sent back. The one Ellen Pass kept was in the possession of John Pisano when I spoke to him (about 10 years ago or so).

I think that if Gibson could ever get the estate to agree on royalties and make a special run of this guitar as the Joe Pass signature Gibson, a lot of us would buy one. It looks like a very cool electric archtop.

**vinnyv1k** · 04-16-2017, 07:47 PM

5 piece maple neck and gold hardware also. Ebony fingerboard. I was ten feet away from it. Joe removed the pickguard.

**Greentone** · 04-17-2017, 06:06 AM

I hope that Gibson wouldn't pin the bridge if they made it now.

**lawson-stone** · 04-17-2017, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Stringswinger

Lawson,

John Pisano told me that Gibson made two of these and sent them to Joe. When Joe Died, Gibson told Ellen Pass (Joe's widow) to send one back and keep one. I presume that Henry J. or some Gibson exec has the one that was sent back. The one Ellen Pass kept was in the possession of John Pisano when I spoke to him (about 10 years ago or so).

I think that if Gibson could ever get the estate to agree on royalties and make a special run of this guitar as the Joe Pass signature Gibson, a lot of us would buy one. It looks like a very cool electric archtop.

Thanks for that! I love the lore and back-story on Joe Pass.

**lawson-stone** · 04-17-2017, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

5 piece maple neck and gold hardware also. Ebony fingerboard. I was ten feet away from it. Joe removed the pickguard.

Wow! That really is a unique guitar.

joaopaz · 04-17-2017, 08:59 AM

..also the later ES-165 has no tone knob and the volume knob was mounted on the pickguard.

**Herbie** · 04-17-2017, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by docbop

That guitar was custom made for Joe by Gibson towards the end of his life. It's a 175 with a thin body, and single PUP mounted by the neck instead of down a little like a normal 175. It's a one of kind not a production model. (...)

Does somebody know how deep is the body? It does not seem to be so much thinner.

Is this something like a rare bird ES-175T?

**lawson-stone** · 04-17-2017, 11:29 PM

Joe says in an interview that he asked for the guitar to be thinner. I think I've heard 3" as the rim depth. Others here might know more concretely, but it also looks about right for 3" when I've seen it on video.

**vinlander** · 04-18-2017, 06:13 AM

The size of that 175 seems to share similarities to the Epi Emperor 2 Joe Pass but with a Florentine cutaway.
In any case, it is probably very comfortable to play, it is one of the thing I love about the Tal its 2.9/3inches rim thickness which makes 17 inches not feel so big.

**lawson-stone** · 04-18-2017, 08:35 AM

I really love the "full" depth archtops, but it's also very clear that 3 inches is a sweet spot for a lot of players and builders. I love my Peerless Monarch (17"x3") and my MiK Epi Broadway, also a 3" depth. Bob Benedetto and Heritage also seem to think 3" is a very optimal depth. So even though I dig the deeper build, clearly a ton of players and builders see great virtue in the 3" rim.

**ronjazz** · 04-18-2017, 08:13 PM

In any case, he sounded great on that, and was clearly having fun. Sometimes he fought with his guitars, once trying some kind of oil treatment for the fretboard, and he ended up playing a whole solo tour on a sticky guitar. On this he looked very comfortable and played some really great stuff, with ease. Very nice, indeed.