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03-13-2017, 08:59 AM #51joaopaz Guest
About the electronics:
Hi guys,
I recorded this video yesterday with my Epiphone (it's a written solo for Matt Warnock's place, not an improv although I "edited" on a few places).
I've been chasing a certain tone I hear on some Gibson ES-175 recordings; while I like my tone now, that's not it, yet (not really worried if I don't get there but I might swap a few things along the way).
Usually I play with the pickups fairly close to the strings; so here I backed the neck PU a bit (more on the treble side), adjusted the height of the polepieces, etc.
On the video I'm playing with the volume at 7 and the tone at 3.
That's where problems start. As soon as I roll the volume back, a lot of noise comes in, I need to have the hands on the strings all the time, and still...
There are other reported things about the bridge volume and tone knobs popping in suddenly, say, from 2 to 3.
I've watched this on some of my other guitars with pots of less quality so I'm assuming it's the case here.
So I'm going to change everything but the pickups.
Question about the pots (perhaps I should post this elsewhere):
Do you guys know what pots are the correct ones for a Gibson ES-175? I heard something about all Gibsons having 300K... is this for the whole 175 line or may be other pots on different models?
(I must say I know very little about electronics)
The thing is, this guitar is a sweet! It deserves the best
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03-13-2017 08:59 AM
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Gibson usually uses 300k ohm pots, or has traditionally. I'm not sure about recent production, but it's probably the same. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Adding a treble bleed circuit helps with the abrupt rolloff, and tames the tone change from the volume control. That's one of the first things I did to mine, and I do it to most of my guitars. Some people like using the volume control for tone changes, though. If you want finer control of the volume, get audio taper pots instead of linear taper. I generally keep my tone control at 10, and the volume at around 7 or so, but that's just me.
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03-13-2017, 09:17 PM #53joaopaz GuestOriginally Posted by sgosnell
Do you confirm the noise/hum coming in as soon as reducing the volume from 10 to any other value? Or did your changes erradicate that?
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No, I've had no hum or noise at all. Hum when not touching the strings usually means a poor or no ground. Either a wire has broken inside, or the ground wire to the tailpiece isn't making good contact.
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03-13-2017, 09:50 PM #55joaopaz GuestOriginally Posted by sgosnell
Thanks!
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I don't know. I've never seen that happen on any guitar. It could be a faulty pot, that's about all I can think of for a cause.
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Have always wanted a blond ES-175 type box ever since I decided to pursue jazz guitar, but didn't want to spend $750+ on some nicer lower level non-Gibson ones. Saw the threads about the Epi ES-175 Premium with the Gibson PUs too late to get a natural one, but decided to go ahead on the black one (which was on clearance) figuring it would match my black tele. Happily the "E" logo came off easily and is no longer there. Everything else remains stock for now.
On a side note, as another poster also experienced with the clearance priced epos, I sadly got one of the unboxed (just jammed in a box with bubble wrap) ones that must have been a display guitar, but since there was no damage other than some hand/finger prints on the body and the price was so great I decided to keep her...great sound and now just need to pair her up to a worthy amp.
Last edited by Sundeep; 03-15-2017 at 03:43 AM. Reason: grammatical errors
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Sundeep
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03-19-2017, 08:34 PM #60joaopaz GuestOriginally Posted by Sundeep
I haven't stopped playing mine.. it's feeling tight and better. The acoustic sound is pretty amazing! It's not the volume itself but the quality of the tone. I always love when that happens; you may end up mic'ingg both the guitar and the amp for some recordings and it will hold great I'm sure.
As for the amp, I'm on that same quest - check this thread I started a few days ago, lots of great info there!
New SS amp for an ES-175 "classic" tone - your choice is?
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03-19-2017, 08:46 PM #61joaopaz GuestOriginally Posted by mrblues
I also have a Dot Studio. Did some minor cosmetic changes to it and it's an amazing guitar, really... I like it better than the regular Dot. And it has the unmarked fingerboard... I wish there were a lot more guitars like that.. not dots, no inlays.
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I agree the more I play it the better it is.
I would like however to hear from the owners concerning how the bridge base sits on the top?
On mine it's very sloppy work.. it touches the body top on the extreme ends, and it looks almost twisted.. I suspect that what really makes the contact and connection is NOT the bridge base, but the pins.
Has anyone tried to sand the bridge flush to the top?
In a way the Epi sounds just great with that really lightely made, horribly adjusted, bridge base.
I want to sand it, keeping the pins (you can use an allen wrench to back them and do the work)
But will this be an improvement on the sound?
Does the sound come from that very light contact on the top, with the pins transfering most of the vibrations, letting the top freely resonnate?
I'm very curious to hear from some of you who might have sanded the bridge base flush?
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03-20-2017, 09:33 AM #63joaopaz GuestOriginally Posted by Jx30510
I'm also a violinist and on violins that can be a major issue for sound loss/tone change. When buying violins for my young students who aren't on a 4/4 size yet the bridges always need a fix (or a total replacement) done by a local luthier. Usually we buy chinese instruments for those stages; lately they are producing very nice instruments, really, but things like the bridge or the pegs always need work.
I reckon that while not as dramatic on a violin the same sound/tone loss may occur, at least on an acoustic level - there for sure. The easy way to fix it would be to put a sheet of sandpaper on the guitar body to follow the belly curve and do the sanding of the bridge on top of that. Just be careful not to round the edges. Violin luthiers never use sandpaper though they always do it with a sharp knife x-acto style.
If you think that may be one of the pins doing the contact with the guitar's top, check that asap as it would be putting a lot of pressure on a small spot, most surely doing some damage... but you many check that also, I think, just with an allen wrench to raise the pins as you said, and see if the bridge goes down.
I'd correct that, for sure. You'll gaing in sound, perhaps reduce some vibrations, even some tuning stability...
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Thanks for the advice.
I'm going to sand it correctly flush with the top, and see if it's better..
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Fitting a bridge base is precision work, and factories don't always have time to do it well. The production line has to keep moving, at least metaphorically. Having a perfectly fitting bridge base should affect the sound for the better. Stew-Mac sells a jig for doing this, but I don't think it's worth the money for one-time use. It is worth it if you do this often. For one time, just make sure to keep the base straight and don't let it tilt. I may be playing Captain Obvious with this, but I wanted to mention it.
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Well I just did it today. It was quite easy, the classic technique with a piece of sandpaper fitted on the top. It's now perfectly flush on the top.
I had to open up a bit the holes because the pins wouldn't fit in it. I must have slightly changed the angles of the pins, but it was also pretty easy, because I had the small round file to do the job.
As a result, there are obvious improvments :
* playability > a more solid feel and better action.
I'm feeling this is because the bridge is better aligned to the neck radius. With a lower action the notes ring better and feel less chocked at certain places on the neck (from fret 9 to 12).
* sound> again a more tight feeling instrument, especially on the E and A strings. More sustain and precision, just better. And the note definition and separation when playing chords is enhanced.
The acoustic sound is also more solid, like if there was a compressor.
I don't know if my guitar was especially badly finished in that area, but this quick job really improved the overall impression. It was very good before, but now it's better. I suggest doing it if you observe a gap beetween the bridge plate and the body top.Last edited by Jx30510; 03-20-2017 at 04:04 PM.
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03-20-2017, 08:40 PM #67joaopaz GuestOriginally Posted by Jx30510
Now enjoy it !
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Sounds like the pins just never made it all the way through the holes. That's just poor setup, but not unexpected for a (relatively) cheap factory output. My solution was to back the pins out so that the bridge is no longer pinned, but whatever works...
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Sounds like the pins just never made it all the way through the holes. That's just poor setup, but not unexpected for a (relatively) cheap factory output. My solution was to back the pins out so that the bridge is no longer pinned, but whatever works... Actually, it's now not pinned because I removed the TOM and replaced the entire bridge with an ebony one, with a split base. That made a big difference in the tone. It's now probably the darkest guitar I have, no longer bright at all.
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03-25-2017, 10:51 PM #70joaopaz Guest
Today I finally took the Epiphone to the guitar tech. We're going to replace the electronics, all but the pickups.
I took some photos to share here with you guys.
As expected, aside the pickups, everything inside is what you'd expect on a budget guitar... though we may argue if a close to $900 is still a budget guitar.
The pots are 500K MIK, the capacitors are average (ceramic?), the wires aren't the best either and the jack input follow the same lines... it didn't even have a dented washer (not sure about the english term for this) so the input jack would get loose and spin easily all the time.
In spite of that the craftsmanship with those components looked ok.
The pickups as you'll see are the 57 Classic and have credible stickers and the "patent applied for logo". I'm just mentioning this because there was a bit of a warning sign for me.. the cables coming from the inside of the pickup are the same as used on the rest of the guitar. Perhaps the Gibson USA 57 Classic are all like that... I don't know, perhaps some of you may confirm?
Also... the bridge pickup is a 57 "plus" Classic; there's no word about it one the Epiphone product page.
Having said that, I love the sound of the guitar and am anxiously awaiting for its comeback
I looked into the Gibson website and on both ES-175 models I could find there was no mention of 300K pots...
ES-175 Figured
So I'm going these same components on the Epiphone. Only exception will be that I'll use Audio pots on the volumes as well, and not linear ones.
I'm going also for a bone nut.
As for the bridge and the tuners for now I'll leave them as is, as I have no complaints. As for the bridge I really like how the guitar resonates and its acoustic tone; and as for the tuners, I want to try these ones first with e proper nut.
Ok, here's the photos!
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Very instructive, thanks for the pictures.
That's what I thought, the electronics are far from top notch. The selector on mine is almost ruined, and I can hear the less quality effect on the tone knob. While usable, an upgrade is in my opinion a really good idea
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One thing that is strange is that normally Gibson 57 Classics have a metal wrapped wire (don't know how you call it in english? "tressé" in french)?
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Originally Posted by Jx30510
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Oh, and I know that I am a freak, but I replace all chrome/silver nickel pickup ring screws with black ones..... all Asian guitars come with chrome/silver nickel pickup ring screws and to me it just looks cheap. Changing those makes a guitar look much more expensive
Vs
Last edited by Little Jay; 03-26-2017 at 07:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jx30510
Starting a phrase late
Yesterday, 11:19 PM in Improvisation