Small guitar amp for jazz and rock

**squeally dan** · 08-13-2009, 12:35 PM

I am looking for an amp that I could do chord/melody solo gigs with, but something that would also work as a back-up to my Fender amps for my wedding band gig. I was thinking a Roland Cube 60 might work well for both. I also thought that would work for my church gigs. I'd love to have an amp that was lighter than my fender tube amps. Is the cube 60 fairly light? Also I saw some polytone stuff on ebay but are those amps more suited for jazz?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-13-2009, 12:38 PM

Cube 60 -- 32lb

Polytone -- one trick pony: that dark, muffled sound.

You might want to check out the ZF Lunchbox.

What's you price range?

**mr. beaumont** · 08-13-2009, 12:44 PM

polytones are jazz amps, pretty much. they're extremely good at it, but i'd never bring my minibrute to a rock gig--the sounds just ain't in there. the cube is more versatile. my final take on the cube is that it doesn't do anything perfectly, but it does pretty much everything more than adequately.

but as far as portabiity goes, zt is the winner...i'm loving my lunchbox...gonna gig it this weekend, i'l let you all know how it turns out. the lunchbox's tone is pretty much a "clean slate"--add whatever pedals/effects you want (i'm cool with just a little reverb for jazz, you'd definitely want some kind of drive pedal for rock...i'm thinking it'd be a perfect mate for a sansamp.)

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-13-2009, 01:02 PM

I want to check out the 1x12" ZT: ZT Amplifiers - Products - Club 12

**SuperB23** · 08-13-2009, 01:21 PM

I really like the Peavey Classic 30 amps all hand wired built in the US 30 tube watts 1 12" speaker and awesome tone!! They can be had on the used market for cheap!

Jazzarian · 08-13-2009, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by squeally dan

I am looking for an amp that I could do chord/melody solo gigs with, but something that would also work as a back-up to my Fender amps for my wedding band gig. I was thinking a Roland Cube 60 might work well for both. I also thought that would work for my church gigs. I'd love to have an amp that was lighter than my fender tube amps. Is the cube 60 fairly light? Also I saw some polytone stuff on ebay but are those amps more suited for jazz?

Ya know Squeally, what might really work is a decent transistor amp (Polytone, Evans etc) with a nice tube distortion pedal, e.g. Boogie V-Twin or Duncan Twin Tube Classic or Badcat etc. They all feature a real bypass so the setup is simple. Most transistor amps are quite powerful and provide tons of "headroom" for clean playing.

You might also want to look into a SansAmp.

Jazzarian · 08-13-2009, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I want to check out the 1x12" ZT: ZT Amplifiers - Products - Club 12

Isn't that just the cutest?

I've got a Polytone Mega-Brute laying around gathering dust. It's tiny.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-13-2009, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Isn't that just the cutest?

I've got a Polytone Mega-Brute laying around gathering dust. It's tiny.

Er, the picture isn't actual size. It's a 1x12" combo.

**derek** · 08-13-2009, 04:41 PM

For me, the best amp I have run across for both is a Tweed Deluxe clone. There are lots of makers, I bought a used Lil Dawg on TGP. 22 watts, 6L6, 12" Weber speaker. Stays pretty clean, and you can use a hot plate to push it, or your fav dirt pedals, which is what I do.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-13-2009, 05:04 PM

I'll bite. What's a hot plate? Also, Squeally already has more that one Fender amp, as mentioned in the OP, so he may well have a Deluxe Reverb. What have you got, comrade?
Also, the Deluxe Reverb weighs 42lbs, so I don't think that qualifies as a "small amp". But then, I'm not a Marshall Stack guy...

Jazzarian · 08-13-2009, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I'll bite. What's a hot plate?

Something forbidden in most college dorms.

Actually the act as a progressive current shunt such that the power output section of an amp thinks it's being overdriven. Some people think output tube overdrive (Duane Allman-Plexi) sounds better than preamp (Boogie-Santana) type overdrive.

**squeally dan** · 08-13-2009, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I'll bite. What's a hot plate?

I think its just an attenuator like the Dr. Z air brake. It allows you to get some dirt going at a lower volume. I could be wrong.

Jazzarian · 08-13-2009, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by squeally dan

I think its just an attenuator like the Dr. Z air brake. It allows you to get some dirt going at a lower volume. I could be wrong.

You are correct.

Keep in mind, they only work with tube amps.

**squeally dan** · 08-13-2009, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I'll bite. What's a hot plate? Also, Squeally already has more that one Fender amp, as mentioned in the OP, so he may well have a Deluxe Reverb. What have you got, comrade?
Also, the Deluxe Reverb weighs 42lbs, so I don't think that qualifies as a "small amp". But then, I'm not a Marshall Stack guy...

My 2 amps are a silver face super reverb, and a silver-face Deluxe reverb.

I thought the cube 60 would be at least a bit lighter.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-13-2009, 06:55 PM

At 32lbs, the Cube 60 isn't as light as one might hope. Its replacement, the Cube 80x, at 35lbs is as heavy as a Evans SE200 (which boasts 200 watts and a 15" speaker -- a Polytone on steroids).

I assume this must be because the Cubes, being inexpensive amps, have cabinets made not from solid wood but from that sawdust + glue stuff that weighs a ton.

**GodinFan** · 08-13-2009, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

At 32lbs, the Cube 60 isn't as light as one might hope. Its replacement, the Cube 80x, at 35lbs is as heavy as a Evans SE200 (which boasts 200 watts and a 15" speaker -- a Polytone on steroids).

I assume this must be because the Cubes, being inexpensive amps, have cabinets made not from solid wood but from that sawdust + glue stuff that weighs a ton.

I thought it might be the speaker that was the weight culprit, but after pulling it and weighing it, you really wouldn't lighten things up too much with a neo magnet.

I've often thought building a new cab for an old Cube amp might be an interesting project...

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-13-2009, 11:18 PM

For a funky enclosure, consider Acoustic Image's stuff. For example, the Coda+:

features their standard curvy polymer material holding three speakers (woofer, midrange and tweeter), a docking head putting out 800 watts @ 4 ohms and together weighs only 20 pounds.

**gravyTrain** · 08-13-2009, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I assume this must be because the Cubes, being inexpensive amps, have cabinets made not from solid wood but from that sawdust + glue stuff that weighs a ton.

Yeah, that particle-board is heaaaavy! But I am fairly certain that most amp cabinets are made of this regardless of brand, then covered in that knobby vinyl stuff.

**Russ Kapp** · 08-13-2009, 11:53 PM

Got my vote on the ZT Lunchbox amp. Been gigging with this tone beast for a couple of months now. It's unbelievable how good this little monster can sound through ALL my gear.....Worth the checking out.....at NINE pounds no less....my back has been GRATEFUL, too !

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-14-2009, 12:00 AM

W-e-l-l, I just gave a counter example with Acoustic Image, and Henriksen (checking quickly) uses "11 ply Finland Birch.

The Cubes are definitely in a cheaper league. Their speakers are generic "Roland/China", for example. A standard mod to the Cubes is to swap in a better speaker.

**P.J.** · 08-14-2009, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by squeally dan

I am looking for an amp that I could do chord/melody solo gigs with, but something that would also work as a back-up to my Fender amps for my wedding band gig. I was thinking a Roland Cube 60 might work well for both. I also thought that would work for my church gigs. I'd love to have an amp that was lighter than my fender tube amps. Is the cube 60 fairly light? Also I saw some polytone stuff on ebay but are those amps more suited for jazz?

A Tech 21 Trademark 60 is a lightweight amp that is extremely versatile. Can do rock, jazz and country and the clean channel takes to pedals really well if you want to ramp up the distortion.

=-) PJ

**squeally dan** · 08-14-2009, 08:57 AM

Can someone tell me more about the Lunchbox? Is it 200 watts? Does that 6" speaker sound kinda tine in a big room? Does it have an external speaker jack? How much do they cost?

**JohnRosett** · 08-14-2009, 09:27 AM

I got a ZT Lunchbox a couple of weeks ago, and I'm a believer. We played an outdoor wedding with about 250 people last weekend (6-piece band with drums), and I used the ZT for my guitar, and a blackface Fender Bandmaster for my steel. The ZT had no problem keeping up with the Fender. Everybody in the band was amazed. Not only did it have plenty of volume, but it sounded good all by itself, with no pedals or an extension cabinet. In addition, the headphone/line out, with it's volume control was a delight for the soundman. I'm getting another one as soon as I can afford it.
The only thing was, it seemed so tiny and vulnerable in the van with all the gear. I went out to the thrift stores last week and got one of those over the shoulder, soft-sided six-pack coolers, and the amp fits in it perfectly. It even has outside pockets for cords, etc.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-14-2009, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by squeally dan

Can someone tell me more about the Lunchbox? Is it 200 watts? Does that 6" speaker sound kinda tine in a big room? Does it have an external speaker jack? How much do they cost?

We went through this in another thread (search for it) but the 200 watts rating is some sort of peak music power. It's about 120 watts RMS. But it's still surprisingly loud for such a small amp.

Some people have said the sound from the 6.5"" speaker could use more bottom. This isn't so bad in a group, where midrange is what you want with a guitar to cut through, but with solo chord melody, I think you want more of a hifi sound with as much range as possible. This is where that 1x12" ZT amp could come in. I'd don't know if it's available yet...

I've seen the lunchbox sold at Sam Ash for $260, and a press release giving the list price of the 1x12 as $400.

**squeally dan** · 08-14-2009, 12:25 PM

For those of you who use the lunchbox, would you agree with this guy's assessement:

I've heard a few of these lately, friends picking them up out of curiosity. Heard one at a medium loud gig a while back, and tried one myself at a little gig recently.
My impression is that many reactions are based on the tiny size and cuteness, for lack of a better word. I have a very small Polytone, not really all that much bigger in practical terms, and it sounds worlds better and just as loud, so I'm a hard sell.
This Lunchbox amp is so unusual, I don't think it is being held to the normal standards of other small combos. The 6" speaker is impressive, and as a combo it sounds better than you'd expect, but ignoring the novelty factor, the amp sounds dry, sterile, and exhibits all the deficits of a mediocre Solid State amp, plus a weird sounding non-reverb that would get panned in any other amp or as a pedal.
Volume-wise, a Blues Jr. walks all over it until you plug it into a larger speaker, and then you have an average SS amp with no usable reverb.
If you need something tiny and loud, it fits the bill. Size (or rather lack thereof) is what it has going for it. Sound ... not as good as a PowerBlock. It would be a good backup, I guess, but honestly, the sound is really ... meh.
That said, if I didn't have a Baby Brute and a PowerBlock, I'd consider one just as a back up or after hours jam amp.
Can't really compare it to other amps, since it's so minuscule. It's alone in it's own category, world's strongest midget. Next to nearly any decent small tube amp, objectively, sounds not so great. But real cute.