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I have an interesting option available to me regarding a new guitar. Briefly
- I am a classical guitar/fingerstyle guitarist of moderate ability
- All my playing is on a pretty good (but not a Robert Ruck) Jesus Marzal classical and/or a amplified ES-175D
- While I play some jazz arrangements, I do not improvise (beyond tweaking existing arrangements)
- I don't own a pick (that I can find)
- I play strictly solo stuff - no Band in a Box/etc (at least for now)
- My playing is split probably 70% classical guitar and the rest on the Gibson through a modeling amp. My repertoire is split kind of 50/50 (where some pieces play fine on both)
- When I am doing exercises and working on technique it tends to be on the classical
My problem is both GAS and the fact that a good bit of my repertoire can only be played through an amplifier (the ES-175D just is not an acoustic instrument). Some of my blues stuff and jazz arrangements just don't render well on nylon strings - complicated by the fact that notes above the 12th fret are somewhat problematic.
The deal that I have with my wife is fair (and complicated) but the net is I have $2500 to spend on a new archtop (with acoustic playability) if I choose. I would be keeping the ES-175D. And BTW adding $2500 to the trade-in and/or personal sale value of the ES-175D for something like a used L5/whatever is not an option as part of the deal is that the ES-175D becomes 'wall art' (that I can easily access for playing when I choose). See attached pic ...
So given this the question becomes "what should I look for?". While this NG does not absolutely need a pickup, I just don't see a downside (beyond a few hundred bucks) for some kind of floating pickup. However the idea of a purely acoustic archtop with bronze strings and some kind of piezo-electric pickup is an interesting thought (and would certainly be less of a duplication of what I already have in the ES-175D). BTW, I play strictly for myself and/or tolerant friends so feedback management is a low priority.
Comments or thoughts on any of this? My 'first place to look' thoughts are used Heritage Eagle instruments or used (or even new) Eastman.
Thanks.
daveLast edited by DaveLeeNC; 02-05-2017 at 01:10 PM.
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02-05-2017 01:07 PM
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Good luck in your search. I don't know about the hanging angle of that 175, I would think it may cause a problem long term.
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I would be very surprised if a shallow angle like that is a problem. But I'd be interested in other opinions. Thx.
dave
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not an eastman. poor sound quality.
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i'd look for a used heritage eagle with a floating pickup. $2500 or less is a fair price on one and they come up often at that price. I recently sold my eagle for much less and it played and sounded gorgeous. Much nicer than the middy, nasally tones of the other instrument you mentioned...
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Heritage Sweet 16 with a floating pickup. 25.5" scale length. Familiar 16" size. Solid carved spruce and maple. 3" rim depth. $2000 to $2400 used.
What's not to like? Duh, the headstock mebbe but we shall ignore that, shan't we?Last edited by Jabberwocky; 02-05-2017 at 01:48 PM.
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My vote goes for hunting down an old Gibson L7 or something like that.
My '34 was less than $3K and it has a gorgeous tone.
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Dude, get that guitar hanging straight down. There's your 2nd opinion. Geez
Your dilemma could easily be solved by a Heritage Sweet 16 or an Eagle with floater or set pickup. And the headstock shape is wonderful on the Heritages, that's just the old G-brand bug a boo being jealous.
So enjoy deciding, but after you place that 175 at a safe angle. Unless you like the idea of hearing a loud crash at 3 am and find your baby BROKEN... Gibson headstocks aren't very forgiving when dropped.
Big
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I don't personally prefer Eastmans' feel but this is flat out false
Originally Posted by agentsmith
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Also consider Peerless Martin Taylor Maestro. And maybe a used oval hole archtop (like a Campellone)
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Keep the 175 and find a used Sweet 16 with a floater. Shouldn't be a problem to find one under $2500 and you'll be pleased (and your wife)
And if you want to make your wife happier, try an Eastman AR503, carved top set in pick up, and make your own opinion, for half the price.
In the end that's what counts ! (your OWN opinion)
Don't ask about my wife, I own both !
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For $2500 I would be looking in the used market to maximize the instrument-per-dollar ratio. Unless you are looking at older Gibsons (1960 or earlier) I'd stay away from those- the older ones tend IMHO to sound better acoustically. As others have said, Heritage are worth a close look. There are a lot of other options, of course. I have a Matt Cushman archtop which is a wonderful instrument. New his guitars are very, very reasonable at $3600; there is one on eBay for $2150 (no connection to me).
Cushman Archtop Jazz Guitar | eBay
But for strictly fingerstyle I would suggest also looking at a steel string flattop- a Martin OM model or something based on that design to be specific. They are great fingerstyle guitars.
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+1 for the used Heritage Eagle. I bought a used spruce over mahogany for $2,500 and sent the pickguard assembly up to Kent Armstrong in Vermont to have him wind me a new paf floater. A superb acoustic quality in the amplified tone. I've since bought a vintage 175 and have had thoughts of selling the Eagle, then I take it out and play a few chords and say to myself: "No way... never!"
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Lots of helpful comments here - thanks a bunch.
The Peerless is of particular interest because of the size of the body (more like my classical) and slightly wider nut/string spacing. I had kind of ruled out 15 inch bodies as not being 'enough' for that type of top (acoustically). But maybe I am wrong. Since I am not trying to fill an auditorium acoustically, 'loud' is not important. But "doesn't sound like cardboard is", of course.
Anyone out there have experience with this instrument acoustically?
Regarding the hanging 175D, it isn't really hanging. It is resting on what was designed to be 'wall mount plate holders' at the bottom (actually sitting on four furniture footies and the things have a one inch lip). That point (bottom of the vertical line in the attached pic) bears 99% of the weight. Just for grins I put this guitar in that position on a (carpeted) floor and wrapped a single piece of Charmin bathroom tissue around the headstock and held it in place with that. And when on the wall it is clamped in at the top so it cannot slide out. Do people still see a problem here? I just don't get it and it IS important as this goes into decorating-land and could well nix the whole deal.
Thanks.
dave
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I'm not familiar with the brand, but there is a really nice cushman on the bay right now. Beautiful wood. 17 X 3 with a floating pickup. For the price, it's a U.S. Made beautiful hunk of maple, spruce and ebony. Same specs and About the same price as the Eastman ar810. Again, don't know the brand or the sound, but it's pretty and a great price.
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If it makes any difference I'm a classical guitarist of many years ( since I was a youth ) learning jazz ( been learning for a few years now ). I find the ES-175 the closest thing in electric archtop land to a classical in terms of feel. The closest thing to an ES-175 is an L4C. The older ones have no pickups or a floating pickup and possibly a very similar feel to an ES-175. I've played a newer L4-CES ( well own one actually ) and it's pretty much the 175 but the newer ones have 2 pickups are not acoustically as rich as the older ones with floating or no pickups I surmise. If you like the Es-175 then an older L4C might be an option providing you can get your hands on one. Of course I don't know the Heritage so it's possible it's also exactly what you are looking for.
Last edited by seaguitar; 02-06-2017 at 07:47 AM.
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Plus one for a Cushman. Matt does exemplary work and is a forum member. Why not PM him and have a chat?
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Agentsmith is totally wrong on Eastman. I've owned many 810CE,805CE,803CE,JP880CE(2) all solid wood carved instruments w/1&3/4" nut width which would be easier for you as opposed to the narrower Gibson 175 you currently have.
Eastmans are based on more of a modern archtop sound (Benedetto thinner tops) as opposed to the Gibson or Vintage Epiphone thicker tops and backs. This translates to a more scooped sound like a flat top vs the more pronounce mids of the Gibson.
It really comes down to which you prefer tonally as well as have the $$$ to buy.
Which brings us to your budget. Unfortunately L-5C, Johnny Smiths,vintage Epiphones, as well as many fine current luthier archtops are north of $5K mostly. Good deals can be had say on a used Campellone, Hopkins, Nickerson, Elferink, Heritage,etc. more in the $3-5k range. And these are definitely better than the Eastmans , but how much better? Again we're talking about solid carved guitars vs. plywood or laminate constuction like a 175,Barney Kessel,Tal Farlow,etc.
My advice to you is get a used 2008 or newer Eastman 810CE and replace the p/up w/ an American Kent Armstrong. This guitar for around $1200-1400 will be 90% of te best out there. And I say this from actual gigging experience. Later on if you want to upgrade you won't lose $ and can decide if you want to upgrade to a more expensive archtop!
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Resale could be tough, but that Cushman looks very nice.
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Great choice regarding an Eagle. Can't go wrong there. Another great option was recently posted. A heritage h175 custom with great appointments
1. Non Cutaway
2. Solid Spruce Top, fret board binding
3. Floating pickup.
4. Great finish in Old Style Burst.
I don't think you could go wrong and might be able to haggle down to $2000 to leave you room to add a piezo (already has a floater).
Keep us posted (but I do love the idea of an Eagle or used Golden Eagle with a floater. They are out there in your price range. Best bang for the buck
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I can't believe it's still available. I'd have bought it if I didn't already own 4 acoustic archtops. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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Thanks to everyone for some really helpful input. I do have another question.
"All other things being equal", is the acoustic sound of an archtop with a single built-in neck pickup going to be affected in a significant way vs. what it would be with a floating pickup?
Thanks.
dave
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Have you considered an electric classical? The Godin Multiac Nylon is under 2K has a cutaway, and is comfortable both finger and plectrum style. It sounds great amplified as well.
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The electric classical doesn't really get into 'the problem' that I have made up so I can buy a new guitar
While a Multiac does improve the higher frets thing, the larger issue (that I have made up) is that some of the stuff that I play just doesn't seem to render well on nylon (acoustically) and I really do want to be able to play this stuff without an amplifier. And for some reason flattop steel string sound isn't appealing to me.
So please don't convince me that I am wrong or I am liable to just trade up my darn good 1996 Bianchi EL/OS steel road bike (with serious wheel and gearing upgrades) for some carbon fiber monstrosity.
dave
ps. If you think it is hard to sell an archtop guitar, you should try the market for 'high end in its day' steel framed bikes.
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Was re-reading this useful thread and have a question. What is special about 2008 WRT Eastman? Thanks. Originally Posted by jads57
dave
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