Ibanez PM2 vs Godin 5th Ave CW Kingpin

**johnzias** · 01-13-2017, 10:48 AM

Trying to decide on a good value Jazz guitar with a mounted pickup. I waded through a number of youtubes till I found players who had the skills for me to get a good read on these guitars. That said, I would welcome some opinions from people who either own or have played these guitars.

My take is that the PM2 has the humbucker and a little more low end oomph, and has more traditional Jazz guitar character, while the Godin may be more versatile with 2 P90's. I have a dynamite CS335 and an SG with P90's so I am leaning toward the former aesthetic.

Opinions on build quality would be welcome as well.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-13-2017, 11:16 AM

They also make a Godin with two humbuckers (maybe exclusively through musiciansfriend? someone will now) and there's the single humbucker pickup Composer model.

I don't really think you can go wrong with either. The Ibanez is a little more traditionally "pretty," i suppose.

I really like Godin's quality in general, but Ibanez makes great guitars too. I'd probably lean PM2 or the Composer model, seeing the other guitars you have.

**johnzias** · 01-13-2017, 11:28 AM

Thanks Jeff. Every time I view the Godin, I fall in love with its looks, but I come away thinking "Rockabilly" for some reason!

I'm mostly a Fender player from a gigging perspective, and even though a P90 sounds way different from a Strat pup, I have enough single coils in my life!

I had a L-5 Wes for a number of years that I loved, and currently a 17" carved top by Tom DeVoe, but it has an extremely thin top which while resonant, squeals a bit too much if there's a drummer involved.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-13-2017, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by johnzias

Thanks Jeff. Every time I view the Godin, I fall in love with its looks, but I come away thinking "Rockabilly" for some reason!
.

Yeah, I think you can easily visualize a Bigsby on the Godin CW model with the P90's.

Have you checked out the Composer model? Price new is just about the same as the PM2...Philip Catherine is using one now. I haven't seen one in person, but they interest me a lot.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 01-13-2017, 12:05 PM

For some reason, the "Uptown" (The Bigsby equipped model) only comes with HBs. P-90s would have been a nice option.

(I went with the orange one on purpose!)

**mr. beaumont** · 01-13-2017, 12:12 PM

I always felt they mixed that up a bit, too. Godin is one of those companies that gets "so close, but not quite" sometimes.

**lammie200** · 01-13-2017, 12:37 PM

Amazon.com: Godin 036516 5th Avenue Jazz Natural Flame AAA HG: Musical Instruments

This one is floater, but the price keeps dropping by $50 everyday. Compared to another link at Amazon that offers it for $1895 this is a steal of a deal IMHO.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 01-13-2017, 12:46 PM

I still don't get floaters on non-carved tops. The Composer (single mounted HB) is the one that gets my attention.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-13-2017, 12:53 PM

I have played a "jazz," and that floater is really good, actually. Sounds quite a bit like a set in humbucker (I'm generally not a fan of the tone of floating pickups.) The 5th Av. Jazz is an outstanding instrument.

But I still think, do a set single pickup with all the "jazz" appointments (flame, all gloss) and they would be in a lot more jazz players hands.

**medblues** · 01-13-2017, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I still don't get floaters on non-carved tops. The Composer (single mounted HB) is the one that gets my attention.

My Godin Jazz has an exceptional acoustic volume which I believe would have decreased considerably with a routed-in pickup.

There are quite a few laminated acoustics with impressive acoustic sound and volume.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-13-2017, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by medblues

My Godin Jazz has an exceptional acoustic volume which I believe would have decreased considerably with a routed-in pickup.

There are quite a few laminated acoustics with impressive acoustic sound and volume.

Yeah, they definitely are out there, and I agree, the Godin Jazz does have an impressive acoustic voice. I won't even add the tag "for a laminate," it's just plain nice. Heck, even the much cheaper Kingpins sound great unplugged.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-13-2017, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by medblues

My Godin Jazz has an exceptional acoustic volume which I believe would have decreased considerably with a routed-in pickup.

There are quite a few laminated acoustics with impressive acoustic sound and volume.

You're almost certainly right about the loss in volume from a top mounted pickup but I'm sitting here practicing on my unplugged Composer and while it's not a really loud guitar, it does have (at least for me) a pleasing and sufficiently loud acoustic tone that I'm able to focus on the response to my pick hand attack. Godin have really done a nice job of getting a lot of acoustic response in their archtops, better than I would have expected from a laminate guitar in this price range.

**lammie200** · 01-13-2017, 01:20 PM

My own feeling is that acoustic volume from the Godins has to do with the neck joint and the way the fingerboard cantilevers over the top. Really frees up the top to vibrate. I could be mistaken but I think that all their hollows are built like that. Unfortunately the necks (profile, nut width, radius, fret size, all of the above, etc.) don't click for me on the Godins. That goes all the way back to the Seagull acoustics that I had, although I do like the Godin hollows much more than I liked the Seagulls. I have only played the Godins in stores though. If I didn't have too many guitars (and always want to pick up my Tele!) I would jump on this deal for the Godin Jazz though. If I couldn't get used to the neck I would sell it and probably not lose a lot of $'s.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-13-2017, 01:22 PM

They're generally pretty thin laminates as well, makes for lightweight, vibrant guitars.

**johnzias** · 01-13-2017, 01:24 PM

So where does this leave the PM2 if one is primarily looking for a Jazz guitar for around $1000?

**medblues** · 01-13-2017, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Yeah, they definitely are out there, and I agree, the Godin Jazz does have an impressive acoustic voice. I won't even add the tag "for a laminate," it's just plain nice. Heck, even the much cheaper Kingpins sound great unplugged.

I went to Chicago Music Exchange on a very quiet day and checked out the two Godin Jazz they had. They had different fretboard markers and the acoustic sound was less loud (still pretty good). I suspect Godin changed the pickups and the fretboards of these guitars over the course of the brand. My fretboard "hangs over" the body fully. I think other models have less of a "free area" under the fretboard which I believe affect the volume.

see this vs this vs this.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-13-2017, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by medblues

I went to Chicago Music Exchange on a very quiet day and checked out the two Godin Jazz they had. They had different fretboard markers and the acoustic sound was less loud (still pretty good). I suspect Godin changed the pickups and the fretboards of these guitars over the course of the brand. My fretboard "hangs over" the body fully. I think other models have less of a "free area" under the fretboard which I believe affect the volume.

see this vs this vs this.

I think that's mostly an illusion from the angle of the photos. On my Composer and Kingpin the body only makes contact with the underside of the neck from the 14th fret to half way between the 15th and 16th frets.

**Jim Soloway** · 01-13-2017, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by johnzias

[QUOTE
Have you checked out the Composer model? Price new is just about the same as the PM2...Philip Catherine is using one now. I haven't seen one in person, but they interest me a lot.

They are a special order with Sweetwater, and are listed at $1195. They only list natural as a finish choice.[/QUOTE]

If you can wait a couple months I'll probably be selling mine when my Montreal Premiere arrives. It's a burst.

**johnzias** · 01-13-2017, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Have you checked out the Composer model? Price new is just about the same as the PM2...Philip Catherine is using one now. I haven't seen one in person, but they interest me a lot.

They are a special order with Sweetwater, and are listed at $1195. They only list natural as a finish choice.

**johnzias** · 01-13-2017, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

They are a special order with Sweetwater, and are listed at $1195. They only list natural as a finish choice.

If you can wait a couple months I'll probably be selling mine when my Montreal Premiere arrives. It's a burst.[/QUOTE]

I almost bought one of your solid bodies a few years back Jim when I was active on TGP. I did get a chance to try Kimock's. Very nice guitar!

Thanks for the offer. I'll see if my patience can hold out! :-)

**Jim Soloway** · 01-13-2017, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by johnzias

If you can wait a couple months I'll probably be selling mine when my Montreal Premiere arrives. It's a burst.

I almost bought one of your solid bodies a few years back Jim when I was active on TGP. I did get a chance to try Kimock's. Very nice guitar!

Thanks for the offer. I'll see if my patience can hold out! :-)[/QUOTE]

I thought I recognized the name.