-
Saw a couple huge multi-year threads on other forums concerning the ol' 50's versus modern wiring debate.
Fascinating part was late in the thread where someone finally put outputs directly into his computer and looked at tone eq graphs.
What he found was that except at the bottom the two graphs were only slightly different ... but accidentally found that the cord out of the guitar made more difference than the internal wiring.
20 footer really changed the tone response graphs from the standard 10 footer, and a better quality low- capacitance cord had a slightly different shape.
His moral: forget the 50's/modern and get a good cord whatever your wiring.
Not that the "scientific" data changed many minds of course.
So ... what cord experience do you guys & gal have? Preferences, wisdom, hunches ...
And of course I've seen a few comments on plectrum preferences ... I'd love a description of the shapes, styles, and particular picks that work. And mods to them of course!
I'm mainly using a standard Gibson heavy, medium size, and used a few passes of 40 grit sandpaper over the held part of it for a better grip.
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
-
01-11-2017 06:51 PM
-
i like 20ft cloth covered cables..was gifted a fender custom shop 18ft cloth cord for the holidays..i'm liking it...transparent...and it looks like the cable from an old steam iron..hah
difficult to judge solely on cable lengths, as the gauge and copper content % of inner core are equally important...(plus many other factors!)..i've had great 20 ft cords that were clear and transparent and others that detracted from the tone
i picked up a few felt picks in different sizes..i've been integrating felt picks more and more into my guitar playing time these days...an old jazzman trick...saunders king an old west coast jump jazz guitarist swore by them..and he hung with charlie christian...
i like'm too
cheers
-
If anything makes an audible difference then it is an audible difference. Otherwise it is an inaudible difference. What would anyone 'debate.'
-
I can hear an audible difference between cheap high-capacitance cables and quality low-capacitance ones. The general run of cables in Guitar Center et al is pretty crappy, Monster in particular. I use George L cable, and have for several years, and don't plan to change. But if you like a dark sound with very little in the way of high frequency response, then you may prefer the cheap cables, because they cut the highs a lot. It's easy to hear by just swapping cables, keeping everything else the same. I prefer to keep all the frequencies, and adjust the tone myself using knobs or an EQ pedal. YMMV.
And picks make a big difference in tone, maybe more than any other single piece of the puzzle. There are so many available, you just have to try lots of them and find the one you like. Fortunately, this is generally affordable, unless you get into the really expensive models.
-
Although I'm a "warm" or dark sound preference guy, like you I'd rather have the control choice as wide as possible. George L cables ... I'll look 'em up.
Originally Posted by sgosnell
When I practice at night after the family is in bed I use a felt pic, nice sounds from it. Same general size as the Gibson heavy I typically use.
From doing a good deal of high end audio speaker design/building I've been around very heated discussions as to the wiring for a sound system inter-component, let alone for speaker runs.
And doing pro video ... cable for mics is another hot topic.
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
-
I've tried many cables, and keep coming back to: Death Valley Cable Company, the world's best guitar cable, handmade one at a time
For picks, I've been using these for a while: SharkTooth & Kodiak Custom Flat Picks [I prefer the Kodiak over the Shark]
-
With guitar leads, I have found the low capacitance thing is worth pursuing - I generally make my own these days, and I like Sommer SC Spirit cable or the new Sommer LLX cable, as these are both low capacitance and well-made. I like the Neutrik or Amphenol brand jacks.
I once bought some cheap (although decent-looking) guitar cable to make some leads - it was described as "low capacitance" so I thought I'd be alright. But it must have been anything but low capacitance, as I just couldn't believe the dulling effect it had on the guitar tone, even with a ten foot lead. It just destroyed all the life and vibrancy of my guitar tone. So now, I won't use any cable unless it has a quoted capacitance per metre of 90pF or less - perhaps an overreaction on my part, but that's how it is.
As to picks, I make my own from horn and other materials, such as delrin plastic - they are about 4 or 5 mm thick, and I have to shape them in a very specific way. I guess I'm one of those fussy guitarists!
-
I like 20' cloth-covered cables - cloth covered, because they look cool and coil (loosely) up neatly, without snagging, as do softer rubber-coated cables; and 20' precisely for the tone-darkening effect. YMMV.
I recently picked up a couple of 20' coil cords, which are just cool.
-
I've got a very orange coily-cable and it only 'likes' one of my guitars, but they're a loving' pair.
As a teen I painted my motorcycle rattle-can orange and my pals named it "Helen Keller."
I am actually not color-blind. Just like orange.
Equally ,some bits & pieces go together better than others, musically.
Especially this 'lectronic stuff. I keep relearning to see with my ears.
-
The cable is very important. Or, the total capacitance, that is. What works best depends on your guitar, amp and preferences. If someone says this or that cable sounds good, pay no attention to it unless he has the exact same preferences and equipment as you
Here's an example of two different cables, low and high capacitance respectively:
In this instance I'd prefer the high capacitance cable. Usually it's the other way around for me.
A good idea would be to find out what total capacitance you prefer in your setup. Then you may shop types and lengths based on this knowledge. No magic or guesswork
A handy capacitance chart
-
Nice link. Lunch time reading sorted! Originally Posted by Runepune
The cable is very important. Or, the total capacitance, that is. What works best depends on your guitar, amp and preferences. If someone says this or that cable sounds good, pay no attention to it unless he has the exact same preferences and equipment as you
Here's an example of two different cables, low and high capacitance respectively:
In this instance I'd prefer the high capacitance cable. Usually it's the other way around for me.
A good idea would be to find out what total capacitance you prefer in your setup. Then you may shop types and lengths based on this knowledge. No magic or guesswork
A handy capacitance chart
-
That's a handy reference. Originally Posted by Runepune
The cable is very important. Or, the total capacitance, that is. What works best depends on your guitar, amp and preferences. If someone says this or that cable sounds good, pay no attention to it unless he has the exact same preferences and equipment as you
Here's an example of two different cables, low and high capacitance respectively:
In this instance I'd prefer the high capacitance cable. Usually it's the other way around for me.
A good idea would be to find out what total capacitance you prefer in your setup. Then you may shop types and lengths based on this knowledge. No magic or guesswork
A handy capacitance chart
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
-
This is real guitar tone-nerd stuff isn't it?
One must be careful not to spend more time watching videos like this than playing the guitar. But it does make a difference.
-
Long ago I read an article about Les Paul bemoaning his selection of High Z cables and if he were to do it over again Low Z would have been a better choice. Considering the fact that Low Z cables can run longer than git cables without noisy artifacts or signal losses I think that we may have gone the wrong way with high impedance cables and pups / amps.
Anyway, here's a link to some cablebabble.
The great cable myth. | SF Guitarworks
-
IMHO - Cables... relatively small factor. Picks... relatively significant factor. Explore... experiment... but make more beautiful music.
-
In that video, there's very little difference over some nice earplugs on my phone that do operatic music (voice and instruments) quite nicely. So ... cheap coax cable is low capacitance and sounds fine ... I've got a couple hundred feet roll boxes of that sitting around. Lol Originally Posted by Meggy
This is real guitar tone-nerd stuff isn't it? One must be careful not to spend more time watching videos like this than playing the guitar. But it does make a difference.
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
-
Well, personally I wouldn't like to vouch for all cheap coax cable out there, but on that video it certainly seems to do the job. Of course there may be other reasons (durability, protection against noise etc.) why it might not be the best thing to go for, but I admit I've never tried it - give it a go and see what you think I guess! Originally Posted by R Neil
And absolutely fair enough if the differences you hear don't seem much - it's how it sounds to you that's the important thing. For myself, I have the philosophy that I don't like any kind of unnecessary signal loss, and I like to preserve as much high end as I can on the way to the amp.
Although saying that, I do use my guitar's tone control a lot for subtle changes - I play gigs in various (usually small) venues, and it's amazing how different the sound can be from place to place. Just having the simple ability to take a bit of "edge" off the sound with the tone control can sometimes be very handy in the heat of the moment.
At other times, it can be the opposite thing, and the environment seems to soak up too much high-end and I'm struggling to get a nice sound with good clarity - I suppose these are the times I don't want to be losing any more treble than I need to. You might think just turning the treble up on the amp a bit extra would work - and it sort of does, but in a less than ideal way. To my ears doing that cannot put back something from the original guitar signal that's been lost - when it's gone, it's gone.
Anyhow, I digress, and I just thought I'd put that video up as more "grist to the mill" really, hope it was useful.
-
Years ago, the Planet Waves (now a DiMarzio company) Classic and Custom series cables received high marks from a Guitar Player Magazine shoot-out. They are priced reasonably and work great so I've stuck with them. Also, their Black Ice jazz picks are my favorite (also reasonably priced).
-
Performance spaces make such a huge change in sound, no lie! At least with an electrical instrument we can change a tone pot or eq section. Originally Posted by Meggy
Well, personally I wouldn't like to vouch for all cheap coax cable out there, but on that video it certainly seems to do the job. Of course there may be other reasons (durability, protection against noise etc.) why it might not be the best thing to go for, but I admit I've never tried it - give it a go and see what you think I guess!
And absolutely fair enough if the differences you hear don't seem much - it's how it sounds to you that's the important thing. For myself, I have the philosophy that I don't like any kind of unnecessary signal loss, and I like to preserve as much high end as I can on the way to the amp.
Although saying that, I do use my guitar's tone control a lot for subtle changes - I play gigs in various (usually small) venues, and it's amazing how different the sound can be from place to place. Just having the simple ability to take a bit of "edge" off the sound with the tone control can sometimes be very handy in the heat of the moment.
At other times, it can be the opposite thing, and the environment seems to soak up too much high-end and I'm struggling to get a nice sound with good clarity - I suppose these are the times I don't want to be losing any more treble than I need to. You might think just turning the treble up on the amp a bit extra would work - and it sort of does, but in a less than ideal way. To my ears doing that cannot put back something from the original guitar signal that's been lost - when it's gone, it's gone.
Anyhow, I digress, and I just thought I'd put that video up as more "grist to the mill" really, hope it was useful.
I took classical voice for several years recently. My "instrument" is an unusual one, in operatic terms a dramatic tenor. That's determined by where the passagio points are ... the two notes where your larynx naturally stretches to go from chest to mixed, and a fourth later to head voice.
Dramatic tenors aren't used a lot, and typically are a lot bigger and less facile than the "lighter" tenors. Mine's big even in a professional space, but sadly .... my teacher's nickname for me was "chords of steel". Ahem.
I could do high range drills and passages from arias two hours straight. Her husband was a pro lyric tenor for many years and if he could make a high C in a night, it was only one. He could do two or three B's. (He was jealous of my upper range extension; I was envious of his whole instrument!)
Jackie took me to several vocal competitions and wow ... the rooms were so important. One I sang in was a 20 foot box of hard floors and wall with a 7 foot ceiling of acoustic tile. Dead on some frequencies and totally "feeding back" on others.
No room for an instrument my size to open up without just sounding blaring. She saw the room ahead of me and just groaned. Might as well head home, that was just a disaster coming.
Next competition ... a theater of 800 seats, full stage and rows of wood theater seating, beautifully uneven walls to vary sound patterns and decay, ceiling 30 foot or better. Wow ... that was a joy.
Was able to just open and let it pour out and drive the room's acoustics. Only competition I did with a room suitable for my instrument and even ol' Chords of Steel had a chance. Judges went and argued a long time before the judge who couldn't stand my French prevailed and I got 2nd. Still, that was the only time I was in the top five. (French ain't my best language ... sigh.)
Good friend sings everywhere from the Met (a big barn) to the Vienna Staatsoper (incredible stage/room for singers). Every different venue affects his sound and takes perhaps slight mods to his technique. And vocal technical master that he is, there's some theaters he just tells his agent to reject.
With electrical instruments we can adjust tone pots & amp & pedal settings. Although some rooms I've set up sounds for a band ... there just wasn't any "good" setting available. Only less worse ones.
Too much flat hard reflective surfaces. Massive echo and feedback issues. Painful to my ears at any volume.
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
-
That pick looks good ... hmmm. Originally Posted by helios
Years ago, the Planet Waves (now a DiMarzio company) Classic and Custom series cables received high marks from a Guitar Player Magazine shoot-out. They are priced reasonably and work great so I've stuck with them. Also, their Black Ice jazz picks are my favorite (also reasonably priced).
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
-
why not both? Originally Posted by R Neil
-
Sometimes the unexpected replies to thread posts are the best ones - thanks for this one, I found it really interesting, and a very apt comparison. I have sung in choirs in the past myself - I've always ended up singing tenor, not that I'm all that brilliant with the highest notes, but I'm definitely not a bass, and choirs always seem to be short of tenors. That's just been a bit of an enjoyable pastime for me in the past though (sadly don't have the time for it these days) and I certainly don't have the voice for solo recitals of the sort you've done, that's impressive stuff. Originally Posted by R Neil
-
Would be more impressive if these were Chords of Silk ... Gold ... heck, I'd take platinum! Originally Posted by Meggy
Sometimes the unexpected replies to thread posts are the best ones - thanks for this one, I found it really interesting, and a very apt comparison. I have sung in choirs in the past myself - I've always ended up singing tenor, not that I'm all that brilliant with the highest notes, but I'm definitely not a bass, and choirs always seem to be short of tenors. That's just been a bit of an enjoyable pastime for me in the past though (sadly don't have the time for it these days) and I certainly don't have the voice for solo recitals of the sort you've done, that's impressive stuff.
Supposedly size is a quality all its own. Right. The best you can say about my beast is it can do BIG at high altitude with the right vocal lines. All night. You don't really want to hear me all that much though. So ... best use? A professional Opera company's "expanded" chorus when they're doing a Grand Opera ... one with a 105 piece orchestra and 60 voice chorus and they need high tenor chorus just LOUD to be heard.
Wish it were otherwise ...
Stumbling fingers still need love ...
Reply With Quote
What's happening at the end of this song?
Today, 07:55 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading