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These hit my sweet spot; early postwar Gibson laminate P90 noncut 17 inches. Basically, an electric L7 or a noncut ES-350, depending on how you look at it. Very briefly the Gibson electric TOTL.
I have been looking for a clean one for $2500 for quite some time, but have found that folks have crazy ideas about the prices on these. Talked this one down to $2650 shipped.
Pretty sure the tuners are not the original klusons; should be open back or single line for this model; looks like gotoh replicas. I am guessing that the keystones rotted, and someone replaced the set. The job is so neat that one suspects a refinish of at least the headstock. Makes me suspect other parts issues, but I'll have to look at it to know for sure. If it is original finish, it hasn't been played much.
Anybody spot any other issues?
If you shop for uncommon models on ebay you take your chances, so I just bought it on impulse. I have an ES-150 from the same era, and one of these will be the "survivor."
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12-21-2016 11:38 AM
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I'd wonder about the tailpiece.
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Beautiful looking guitar! Tuners seem replaced indeed. Tailpiece looks like a replacement too, it's not the correct model to my knowledge, but I have seen early 125s with the same, so who knows. But -as far as I can see from the pics - the pu cover looks to be clear plastic painted black on the inside and that would be correct. There is probably a FON on the inside that should allow you to date it.
The finish almost looks too good to be original, but it might be. If it's a refin they did a good job.
*edit: after a better look, I see some craquelee in the finish and some wear. Looks to be the original finish!Last edited by Little Jay; 12-21-2016 at 01:11 PM.
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the top finish looks legit, most of the ones I've seen were sunburst all over.
the stinger is missing from back of peghead so I suspect there might be an older refin to the back sides and neck, but I'm not certain. Gibson was doing a lot of mixing and matching around this time.
tuners would be open back Klusons.
the early ones usually had the L-7 type trapeze tailpiece which appeared on the period ES-350.
some had the taipiece w/cuttouts
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Looks like a nice guitar.
It should be easy to check the hole pattern at the butt of the guitar to see if that's an original Kluson tailpiece. It wouldn't surprise me if it is.
Another thing to check is the bridge - it should have a continuous base, not a two-footed base. The two-footed base was re-introduced to Gibson archtops @1952.
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She looks original to me,except for the tuners. Think you've got a winner there nopedals. Hell of a guitar for that money!
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I didn't see the others photos. The back does look to clean to match the top. Still she's a beauty.
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I think the tailpiece is correct; seeGibson ES300 - 1946. Not common for that model, though. But kluson is still making that tailpiece, so who knows.
The logo and p90 with pole pieces indicates it was made right around 1947, correct?
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Congrats NP!
Originally Posted by nopedals
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The pickguard outgassing took its toll on the upper frets.
They could be polished out though. Just be sure to look under the pg and make sure the wood is ok under there.
other than that, the big girl is BEAUTIFUL! Congratulations and that seems to be a very good price for a guitar like that.
Good Luck. It's really nice.
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It has a script logo pointing to '46 or '47. Many of these early ES-300s had the heavier Kluson tailpiece, but I think I may have only seen that on the natural finish examples of which there are very few. Like this:
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If it is the current pickguard that is outgassing then replacing it is recommended! (Mandatory actually.)
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> The pickguard outgassing took its toll on the upper frets
> If it is the current pickguard that is outgassing then replacing it is recommended
The first thing I do with archtops is to take the pickguard off, outgassing or not. One less thing to rattle. But that is a good point! I actually have one from a 1940 L7 in the freezer right now, thinking that it might stop the process (more likely it poisons the food, but I have my priorities).
Thanks for all the good feedback, guys.
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Awesome, That is one nice axe! I love it. You will too!
Merry Christmas Nopedals.
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And FWIW, the case appears to be early 70s.
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I have seen both the Kluson and Grover tailpieces on the ES-300...examples that I have played. The pickup looks original, too. The guitar appears to be a winner.
My experiences with the ES-300 make it one of my very favorite guitars for jazz. The 300 sounds and plays just super for jazz. My playing style puts me extensively between the 4th and 15th frets, so I don't really miss a cutaway when I play. Consequently, the difference between the price of an ES-300 and an early ES-350 doesn't yield much benefit to me.
Enjoy.
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Delivered today. I snuck home during the noon hour to unpack it. The seller is a music store, but I don't think they handle a lot of vintage archtops. Lots of packing material in the box, but it was just stuck in the case without any padding, strung up to pitch. Yikes! But no damage.
Beautiful guitar, in ridiculously fine shape for a 70 year old instrument. It feels ... expensive. The neck profile is very thin for a 1940s guitar, with a wide board. More like a late 50s gretsch than a 1940s Gibson. Frets have minimal wear, and appear larger than vintage; could be a refret. This is all from five minutes of playing the guitar, no measurements. It has stiff dull flatwounds on it that might have been there for a long time. The knobs and electronics seem fine, but it will probably sound better with new strings. Playability is fine up and down the neck, but of course it will get a proper setup. Needless to say for a 1940s laminate, it's feather light with decent acoustic tone.
In addition to the notes above, the bridge is not continuous, so per hammer it can't be original. The tailpiece definitely appears original. I have not taken it off, but there is no outward sign that another was ever there, and the patina on the nickel looks right. The pickguard might not be original; as noted earlier in the thread the nearby frets are tarnished, which suggests damage from an outgassing pickguard. But this guard shows no signs of outgassing.
Very excited, definitely keeping it.
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Great! Am I correct in assuming it is much like an up-scaled, more ornamented ES-125 with a bigger body? Or does it have a 25.5" scale? Do they sound alike? (Both being laminated archtops with a P90.)
Anyway, it looks great! Enjoy it! (I'm sure you will.)
(*Edit: looked in my Duchossoir book and saw it has a 25.5 scale indeed....)Last edited by Little Jay; 12-27-2016 at 05:50 PM.
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More like an upscale ES-150. Originally Posted by Little Jay
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It is pretty easy to categorize; an ES-150 with L7 level bling. Or a laminate L7 with a P90.
You could also say an ES-350 without the cutaway, and with nickel, not gold, hardware.
I have an ES-150 from about the same year (same logo), and will spend some quality time comparing the two. It has been my theory that all of these early postwar laminates -- ES-125, 135, 150, 175, 300, 350 -- have the same body wood and electronics. I will weigh them both and take some closeups of the F holes, etc.
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I'm very relieved the instrument arrived in good order. Now you can get down to taking care of details, and playing that beauty. Congratulations, and play it in good health!
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Hi!!
I just bought a VERY similar ES-300 a couple of months ago. The seller said it was a 1946 model (one of the few made with Honduras mahogany instead of maple). I've been searching a lot about it and here's what I can say:
- I would say yours is from 1946 cause the script logo is horizontal (it doesn't have any angle). All Gibson archtops I've seen from 1947 have the logo with a certain angle.
1947
1947 Gibson L-7
1947 Gibson L-7
c. 1947 Gibson ES-300
1947 Gibson L-5
1946
1946 Gibson L-7
https://www.archtop.com/ac_46L5_208.html
- My guitar has the same tailpiece as you. Mine is repaired on the bottom part, that makes me think it could be original (otherwise, why repair a tailpiece that's not original?). Plus I've seen some others "all original" with the same tailpiece.
https://reverb.com/item/58535-gibson-es-300-1946-1948-sunburst-flame-top-price-drop
http://endsongs.com/es300-1946.htm
- My guitar has the earliest version of closed-back Kluson Deluxe tuners (without any hole on the cover). This is checked with some other guitars from the same era on Archtop.com.
- Yours is in very good condition (mine has some finish issues on the back, the rest is great).
- Those years, specially right after WWII, Gibson made the same model with very different features (which is logical by the way...).
- I don't know you...but I love these one :-P
- One question, does your guitar have any label or serial number? Mine hasn't any :-( ... But I've read that this was usual on the early post-war models...
Enjoy it!!!Last edited by Guillemlt; 01-09-2017 at 07:50 AM.
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I wish I knew the back story on my guitar. As you observe, the headstock logo is really early. But the tuners do not look like klusons from that era (they look like gotoh repros). There is no wear on the back of the neck. Very mild fret wear. The neck profile is shallow, not clubby; like a late 50s/early 60s Gibson rather than something out of the 40s, although the fretboard is absolutely correct. Frets are tarnished near the pickguard, but there is no sign of outgassing. The pickguard looks original, and is a little bit warped (i.e., unlikely to be a repro). No visible numbers or labels inside the F holes.
The tone control does not work. The pickup screws are not tarnished at all, but the bottom of the pickup has the appropriate patina and 40s wiring. There is a green .02 mf paper capacitor visible through F hole that looks in good shape (looks too new). I did not remove the pots, but I am having someone else pull them to fix the tone control, and, of course, look at the pot dates. Hopefully the guy doing the work will have a little bit of detective in him.
The guitar is gorgeous, and sounds and plays great, so I don't care much; just curious.
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What a cool guitar !!!
Nothing beats a vintage Gibson NGD
Congrats & enjoy
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