Gibson L-7 alternative

**jim777** · 12-13-2016, 01:07 AM

Guys and gals, I'm thinking about getting an acoustic archtop, no floater no pickup at all, and would really like something similar in look and feel to a 50's Gibson L7. My budget has a very hard ceiling of $2K US. Is there anything out there in that ballpark? Basically, I am looking (who isn't?) for something nearly impossible to put down, just like a real L7

Used is fine of course, but I want a cutaway. I don't care where it's made as long as it is worth the money.

Thoughts?

EDIT - something like this maybe?
Eastman AR810C-SB Acoustic Archtop Guitar w/ HSC, Sunburst, | Reverb

**dconeill** · 12-13-2016, 03:23 AM

Eastman is close, but there are some important differences. The Eastman cited has a 17" lower bout, but 25" scale, and 1.75" neck width at nut. L7, iirc, has 17" lower bout, 25.5" scale, and 1.6875" nut.

**campusfive** · 12-13-2016, 04:55 AM

It seems to me that you want a 17" cutaway acoustic archtop. Since you want an acoustic guitar, the only really choices in that price range are Loar and Eastman. NO ONE else is making a real, carved top, acoustic archtop guitar for that kind of money.

That said, for over 10 years I played a 16" non-cutaway Eastman that is better than most of the vintage archtops I've played. And I've played many, many Loar LH-600's which are also 16" guitars. I actually just played a friend's LH-700, and that was a nice upgrade.

Eastman does make a 17" cutaway acoustic archtop, the AR810CE. However, be aware that it has both different bracing AND a different scale length than a 50's L-7. Eastmans are X-braced and shorter scale, more like a 30's Gibson than a post-war one. But then again, NO ONE is making a parallel-braced, long scale 17" acoustic archtop, like a 50's L-7 except if you have a luthier or custom shop make one, and that is clearly going to cost more than $2k.

I'm bullish on both Eastman and Loar because no one is making acoustic archtops except them. Every else is faking it - those new Epiphones? Ugh, I wished they were good, but they're pressed tops not carved. That's a non-starter for an acoustic archtop. And lastly, both Eastman and Loar do have quality issues, so try before you buy, or at least get an approval period. Or alternatively, factor in that you may well need to have to set up and the frets dressed to make it play like a million bucks. Still, if you want an acoustic archtop under $2k, outside of finding a beater L-7 or Epi Triumph, you're not going to do better than an Eastman or a Loar.

**Hammertone** · 12-13-2016, 07:58 AM

In terms of vintage American 17" cutaway archtops, you can probably find a cheap-o pressed-top '50s Kay in that range, but I am not a big fan of Kay archtops. A Heritage Eagle Classic configured with a floating pickup (which is removable) will get you what you want, but the likelihood of finding one for $2,000 or less is slim. Maybe an Epiphone Triumph, if you are lucky - great guitars.

You can order a Chinese archtop with the specification you want for under $2,000 - several members here have done it and are pleased with the results.

Then there are vintage German-made archtop guitars.

Between the end of the war and the late 1960s, German builders produced many acoustic archtop guitars. It's a parallel world of archtop instruments, thoroughly confusing for Americans, but over the past few years, a few interested folks have taken the time to sort it out. It's split between West German and East German makers. It's split between larger and smaller shops. It's split between laminated/pressed and carved-top instruments. It's split between instruments that look "normal" to American eyes and instruments that look very strange indeed. And it's split between so-so and great guitars.

In your case, because your ideal model is a '50's L-7C and your budget does not exceed USD 2,000, there's no point in exploring anything other than instruments that get reasonably close to what you want. One caveat is that most of these guitars have shorter scales - usually a bit under 25" - similar to the Gibson ES-175, or the pre-war Advanced Gibson L-5/L-7/L-10/L-12 guitars.

Lang
-The best of the best. Out of the question - way too expensive. Here's a late Lang:

A. Hoyer
-Specials (@17 1/2-18") and Solists (@16 1/2") are possible, but look VERY strange to Americans. Solists sell for under USD 2,000. Fabulous acoustic archtop guitars at laughably low prices. Here's a Special and a Solist:

Glassl/Hopf
-Gustav Glassl built the high-end archtops for the Hopf company. His later instruments look very American. Here's a 17 1/2" acoustic archtop built by him. Hard to find. Typically with carved tops/laminated backs:

Hofner
-they built their archtops with a 25 1/4" scale. Their 17" acoustic archtops (Models 468, 470, Committee) are comparatively easy to find, but ones with carved tops are very hard to find - most had laminated tops after a point. Very inconsistent - some great-sounding ones, some no-so-much. Backs are laminated, never carved, on older ones. Worth investigating. Here's a '60s 18" Hofner "New Committee", to give you a sense of the look of these guitars:

Roger
-Roger archtops span several distinct production periods, but from 1955 onward they produced guitars that will get you the closest to what you are seeking, IMO. The size and shape of the Roger archtops is specifically based on the Gibson L-7C/L-5C. They produced a few model variants (Junior, Standard, Luxus, Super) that are all the same except for trim levels. Most of them are Juniors - 17" lower bout, cutaway, 3" rims, carved spruce top, carved maple back, solid maple rims. Necks are laminated maple/other hardwoods. Fingerboards are rosewood. The distinguishing design feature is the "German Carve" used on the tops and backs - I think it's gorgeous, but some find it strange.

I'd be happy to help you with this is you are interested. I have a few of these guitars available, and know a few people who have them as well, all in North America. IMO, these are the best value in acoustic, carved 17" archtops.

Here's a Roger Junior that sold a couple of years back for under USD 1,500. I've done some restoration on it and it's for sale:

**christianm77** · 12-13-2016, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by campusfive

It seems to me that you want a 17" cutaway acoustic archtop. Since you want an acoustic guitar, the only really choices in that price range are Loar and Eastman. NO ONE else is making a real, carved top, acoustic archtop guitar for that kind of money.

That said, for over 10 years I played a 16" non-cutaway Eastman that is better than most of the vintage archtops I've played. And I've played many, many Loar LH-600's which are also 16" guitars. I actually just played a friend's LH-700, and that was a nice upgrade.

Eastman does make a 17" cutaway acoustic archtop, the AR810CE. However, be aware that it has both different bracing AND a different scale length than a 50's L-7. Eastmans are X-braced and shorter scale, more like a 30's Gibson than a post-war one. But then again, NO ONE is making a parallel-braced, long scale 17" acoustic archtop, like a 50's L-7 except if you have a luthier or custom shop make one, and that is clearly going to cost more than $2k.

I'm bullish on both Eastman and Loar because no one is making acoustic archtops except them. Every else is faking it - those new Epiphones? Ugh, I wished they were good, but they're pressed tops not carved. That's a non-starter for an acoustic archtop. And lastly, both Eastman and Loar do have quality issues, so try before you buy, or at least get an approval period. Or alternatively, factor in that you may well need to have to set up and the frets dressed to make it play like a million bucks. Still, if you want an acoustic archtop under $2k, outside of finding a beater L-7 or Epi Triumph, you're not going to do better than an Eastman or a Loar.

Amen to that. I play a Loar LH600. It's LOUD. See my thread.

**christianm77** · 12-13-2016, 08:58 AM

I didn't bother playing my laminate Hofner on that recording, but my impression is that's it's quite a bit quieter, so I didn't bother.

Funky guitar though! Some of those old German boxes look amazing, and they do sound good, esp. when mic'ed.

I haven't tried any of the carved ones. They do look absolutely stunning to my eyes.

**christianm77** · 12-13-2016, 09:29 AM

BTW I presume you aren't gigging. Is sheer volume that important?

I like the way that Godin 5th Avenues sound for example, and I think they'd record well, but I can't take them seriously as a real acoustic guitar... But this may not matter...

In any case I love playing my Loar unplugged... Lovely sound... But then I also like playing my old ES 175 unplugged (it's pretty resonant actually, but nothing like as loud as a real archtop.)

Even some of the old L50s can be nice and are within your price bracket.

Also sheer volume will work against you in amplified live situations. Loud guitars feedback more, obviously. Some people such as Jonathon (campusfive) and Julian Lage seem prepared to deal with that :-)

But the dream of playing like Eddie Lang, unplugged in a group that plays sensitively with a considerate audience in a nice room hasn't died exactly. It's just that for me it doesn't happen very often.

I'm playing three unplugged gigs this week BTW. The biggest factor is not the sheer volume of your guitar beyond a certain point, but the sheer volume of the audience.

**Woody Sound** · 12-13-2016, 09:30 AM

How about an older Epiphone?

**Max405** · 12-13-2016, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

In terms of vintage American 17" cutaway archtops.....

Hammer that was amazing. You always get me to step out of my little cocoon here in the US and see guitars I didn't know existed. Thanks buddy.

Ok, back into my cocoon..

Jim777, Its a shame you couldn't stretch it just lil bit and wait to get an L7c. They are really incredible guitars. Sound to die for, Featherweight, but still maintains that "bank vault" Gibson feel. The skinny frets take a little time to get comfortable with. But when I had mine, it was my goto guitar, hands down. It was great.

JD

**Hammertone** · 12-13-2016, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Max405

Hammer that was amazing. You always get me to step out of my little cocoon here in the US and see guitars I didn't know existed. Thanks buddy. Ok, back into my cocoon.. Jim777, Its a shame you couldn't stretch it just lil bit and wait to get an L7c. They are really incredible guitars. Sound to die for, Featherweight, but still maintains that "bank vault" Gibson feel. The skinny frets take a little time to get comfortable with. But when I had mine, it was my goto guitar, hands down. It was great. JD

Twelfth Fret has a Bozeman L-7C in on consignment right now, if anyone is interested.
I'd grab it, but I already have one. UPDATE: Sold right after being listed on their site.

**nopedals** · 12-13-2016, 11:16 AM

"acoustic archtop, no floater no pickup at all ... but I want a cutaway"

I see a disconnect here. On a noncut you have pretty good access to 15 frets. The notes above that are like the last half octave on a piano. Plus noncuts have more body volume, so they sound better. I sort of understand paying the noncut premium (probably an extra $500) for an electric guitar, but why let a feature like that deprive you of the guitar you want?

That being said, if you are patient you can probably get an epiphone triumph in that price range. I had a museum quality '51 triumph cutaway that I could not move here a year ago. Put it on ebay with an excellent description and photos, and it topped out in the high teens.

**Woody Sound** · 12-13-2016, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by nopedals

That being said, if you are patient you can probably get an epiphone triumph in that price range. I had a museum quality '51 triumph cutaway that I could not move here a year ago. Put it on ebay with an excellent description and photos, and it topped out in the high teens.

I too had an acoustic Triumph cutaway, awesome guitar.

**rabbit** · 12-13-2016, 12:08 PM

Be "irresponsible."

Sign up for the debt, pay it off in bits, keep your cash & Get What You Want.

I am an Enablement Engineer.

Click the image for more & larger images. This guy Schoenberg is a Prince.

Good luck, whatever you choose!
Gibson L-7 Acoustic Archtop Guitar, Vintage 1936 | om28.com

**jim777** · 12-13-2016, 12:27 PM

Thanks guys for all the replies. I didn't see the Bozeman on 12fret.com, but I may call them later. Lots to think about here, which I really appreciate

I could live with a floating pickup, I just don't want one or the hassle of removing it but certainly would.

**christianm77** · 12-13-2016, 12:44 PM

Get a L7. Unless you intend to gig the stuffing out of your guitar, I would get the real thing. You won't regret it, and you won't in the long run lose money if you are careful with it

**Papawooly** · 12-13-2016, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

Hammer that was amazing. You always get me to step out of my little cocoon here in the US and see guitars I didn't know existed. Thanks buddy.

Ok, back into my cocoon..

Jim777, Its a shame you couldn't stretch it just lil bit and wait to get an L7c. They are really incredible guitars. Sound to die for, Featherweight, but still maintains that "bank vault" Gibson feel. The skinny frets take a little time to get comfortable with. But when I had mine, it was my goto guitar, hands down. It was great.

JD

Joe is correct... I bought his Bozeman L7C (fromArchtopGuy) a few months ago and its the only thing I play!
Cost was $2600 so not much over your number... The 1st guitar you mentioned (Eastman)
I would consider but it would have to have "the sound" to be in the competition,
specs are very much inline with the L7C (X-braced, 24 3/4 scale etc...) but this Bozeman has "IT" it IS a great guitar

**Hammertone** · 12-13-2016, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

They are very slow to put up photos of incoming consignment guitars.
And very slow removing sold consignment guitars.
Call them. All good guys.
It's a nice guitar, in excellent shape, sounds wonderful, but needs to be cleaned.
I'll check to see if it's still there.

Bozeman L-7C at the Twelfth Fret - asking price:
CAD - 3,750
USD - @2,800 (moves with the exchange rate from CAD to USD)
UPDATE: Sold right after being listed on their site.

I played this guitar and it has the Hammertone Family-Friendly Seal of Approval.

**jim777** · 12-13-2016, 04:19 PM

Thanks so much

I will definitely seriously consider it. I think I will hold out for an actual L7, either a Bozeman model or a 50's. I am indeed seeing the logic in all of the "hold out for an L7" threads.

**christianm77** · 12-13-2016, 06:27 PM

**Max405** · 12-13-2016, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by jim777

Thanks so much

I will definitely seriously consider it. I think I will hold out for an actual L7, either a Bozeman model or a 50's. I am indeed seeing the logic in all of the "hold out for an L7" threads.

You wont regret it. And you wont lose a penny.
And you will remember that guitar for the rest of your days..
JD

**Longways to Go** · 12-13-2016, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by rabbit

Be "irresponsible."

Sign up for the debt, pay it off in bits, keep your cash & Get What You Want.

I am an Enablement Engineer.

Click the image for more & larger images. This guy Schoenberg is a Prince.

Good luck, whatever you choose!
Gibson L-7 Acoustic Archtop Guitar, Vintage 1936 | om28.com

As a recent member of the L7 club -- in my case, the really early no cutaway L7 club --
all I can say is Hell Yaah!

My '34 (now nick-named "the Queen") is the beez kneez.

IMO I've been lucky on this guitar, as it was obviously a player's guitar, as opposed to a collector item.
Bill Lawrence pickup sounds great, and no tiny frets here!, nice action, some careful bridge work done in the past . . .
Good replacement tuners . . . somebody in the past already did all the work!

and Oh the sound . . . . (gasp with micro-orgasm)
I repeat. Oh . . . the . . . sound