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I've A/B'd a ceramic vs AlNiCo speaker before (Weber Blue Dogs) and found a warmer (less bright) sound with a AlNiCo magnet (all other factors being equal) than a ceramic magnet. I recognize I'm wading into subjective territory here, but I'm bias toward an AlNiCo magnet.
Any suggestions for a warm but clean AlNiCo speaker? (be specific please with brand/model)
The speaker shoot-outs I've heard on YouTube are rock centered, but I did like the Celestion Gold in that arena.
Any experiences are much appreciated!Last edited by helios; 11-22-2016 at 05:57 PM.
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11-22-2016 05:52 PM
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Ive got a Weber ALNICO Blue Pup 10" in my Rivera Clubster 25 and its the sweetest sound Ive heard for Jazz as long as the volume doesnt get too high. Depending on the wattage your amp is pushing, try getting one rated for much higher volume levels. That "should" give you a bit more headroom before break up. I tried a JBL K series ALNICO 10 " in the same Rivera amp and it was way too clean for me. The amp is rated at 25 watts and the JBL at 150 watts, way too much of a difference there. The JBL would be good for a 100 watt amp to get the clean smooth Jazz tone I get from the Webber at 25 watts, the Webber is rated at 30 watts but it works for me as I do some blues too with that amp. Your milage may vary. Bob
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I had a Jensen Jet Blackbird AlNiCo in an Allen Sweet Spot (Princeton clone) that I just sold. Very warm sound and the amp buyer (a jazz guitarist) is similarly very happy with it. Worth checking out as another option.
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I like my old Altecs. I have a 15" and a 10". They have a wider frequency response than most guitar speakers, but the high end is in no way brittle, biting, or harsh.
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Celestion Gold is a great speaker. Has a little bit of a upper-mid range honk the more you push it.
Scumback Scumnico - little more low-mids than the Gold but otherwise similar
ASW - most balanced of the 3, imo - way more expensive as well
My favorite for clarity would be a JBL D120. Works nice with fat treble strings as the aluminum cone kind of shoots out the higher frequency notes. The other alnicos are little too warm, imo. Great when cranked and crunching, but can lack clarity for clean jazz, especially with big strings.
Celestion Blues are amazing, probably my favorite alnico other than the D120, but, obviously, the Blue is low wattage. A pair in a 30w tube amp would be a good combo.
I would stay away from Jensen Reissues. They sound terrible, imo. Old 60s Jensen P12Ns are pretty good but can be a little sterile at low volumes. Old P12Qs are probably too low watt to handle loud cleans.
The Eminence Eric Johnson's are a bit of a P12N with the brightness at low volume taken away. These would be my choice if you don't want to spend $200+. I've tried about 30+ speakers in my blackface Deluxe Reverb and have the EJ in there now.
Ceramics are nice if you want a little more punch. A blackface Vibrolux Reverb with original Jensen's is a wonderful jazz tone. Pre-Rola Celestion G12H30s are up there as some of the best all-around speakers - known for Marshall's but their clean sound is warm and woody.
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After swapping dozens of speakers in my few amps I would say that there is not a 'speaker that is best for jazz'. It all depends on the amp You put the speaker.
Someone has said that "Blackface/Silverface Fenders love ceramics, Tweeds love Alnicos". My experiences says the same. But then there is exceptions.
It is impossible to say that "alnicos are warmer" or "ceramics are brighter". Celestion Alnico Blue is one of the sparkliest speakers, Eminence Cannabis Rex (ceramics) is one of the warmest. There is more parameters than just the magnet. Hemp cone for example makes a speaker 'softer', no matter what the magnet is. Polytones are warmest of all – with ceramic bass-style speakers.
What can be said is that with distorted sounds the alnico is smoother, "more musical". But then: who can deny the sweetness of distorted sound of (ceramic) Celestion Greenback!
Celestion Gold is one of the best all round speakers there is – but in some amps it is just too bass heavy. And dispite "everyone" hates Jensen Reissues, they are brilliant in some amps in some music style.
I mean that helios, I can't answer to Your question if You don't tell what amp are You talking about!
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Hello fellow Finnish person,
Originally Posted by Herbie
Both of my amps are El84 powered. One is a Peavey Delta Blues, and the other is a Mesa Mark V 35. I appreciate all of the comments thus far!
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I've always thought the Cannabis Rex, Hemp cone, and G12-65 as 'dark' speakers, not 'warm'
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Well, of course You are right. But on the other hand, one's 'dark' is 'warm' to next one. Originally Posted by HeyNow
Would the expression 'attenuated in the upper register' be more exact?
(Oh-la-la, first smiley I use in my forum post in internet ever!)
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I just put a Weber 10a150 in my 65 Princeton Reissue and the amp is now downright musical.
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Vautsi, terve vaan terve! Nice to see here people from exotic northern countries too! Originally Posted by helios
I have never had experience with Peavey Delta Blues nor the Mesa Mark V 35 so I cannot give You a straight answer – if there is such.
So my second question is: what is it You do not like in their stock speakers? Is Peavey 15" version? (Ups, two second questions, sorry!)
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I like the Celestion Gold Alnico very much. The Celestion Cream Alnico has much of the same attributes with higher power handling, 90W, if I recall.
I like the Ipswich made Tayden ACE 25, ACE 50 Alnico. Don't have it meself but I know someone who does in a Tweed circuit. But it is hard to find in the US. I find it truer in tone than Celestion's own copies of its traditional Blue.
I will happily stop at the Celestion Gold or Cream Alnico. I would be remiss in not mentioning the Eminence 1028K with a small Alnico magnet. If you do not have a high-powered amp, the Eminence 1028K is worth a listen at its price.
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Dark, to me, means not bright. An amp or speaker can be both bright and warm. Originally Posted by Herbie
Well, of course You are right. But on the other hand, one's 'dark' is 'warm' to next one.
Would the expression 'attenuated in the upper register' be more exact?
(Oh-la-la, first smiley I use in my forum post in internet ever!)
Would you say a Blue is a dark speaker? I think we agree it is not dark? I think it can be bright and can be warm.
A Blue, for example, can be sparkly, as you say, or jangley on some notes (highs) and warm, woody on other notes (mids), to me. It's not a dark speaker, however. Bright rhythm crunch (blizzard of nails, shards of glass)
Early 70s Marshall Super Lead - bright!
Blackface Fender Twin Reverb - warm, chimney, cleans; can be bright cranked
The only dark amp I can think of is a Silver Jubilee.
Of course all my opinion (not a statement of fact)Last edited by HeyNow; 11-23-2016 at 04:29 AM.
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Tone Tubby AlNiCo Hempcone.
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Speakers are one component that, in my experience on the net, two different people can hear polar opposite characteristics. I think you just got try 'em.
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Originally Posted by Herbie
It is a welcome event to speak with you! All of my grandparents on both sides of the family and my father were from Finland, so I'm really an American who only knows a few swears in the Finnish language.
The Peavey Delta Blues has a 15" Weber ceramic Blue Dog speaker. It would be the stock Celestion 12" 90 watt (type MC-90) in the Mesa Mark V 35 that I would change. There is nothing wrong with this speaker necessarily. I'm compulsive about changing things when I should just play my guitar and not be concerned.Last edited by helios; 11-23-2016 at 04:04 PM.
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JBL D or K120 12 or 15" Beautiful Cleans Warm and Round. Downside a bit heavy and no longer made.
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Oh, pirskatti! Say 'terveiset sinivalkoisesta Suomesta' to Your relatives! Originally Posted by helios
There is three Celestion Golds for sale in The Gear Page Buy And Sell pages. If it won't help, You can easily sell it and buy something else instead.
I enjoy Weber 12A125A in my tweed clone. When I still had a SF Princeton, WGS G12C/S was heavenly.
Enjoy the hunt! Make notes, record clips to compare. Good luck!
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Originally Posted by Herbie
Herbie,
kiitos hyvä päivä !
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I own a Celestion Blue Alninco combined with a Blue Weber ceramic in a Headstrong Twin. Never been happier. I did a tube upgrade which really brought the amp to life.
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No one's mentioned yet: Alnicos tend to be 3-4x (or more!) as expensive as ceramic speakers, so it can become a pricey experiment to see how they compare.
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I think there many variables in speaker design that have a stronger influence over tone than AlNiCo vs. ceramic. I think AlNiCo will compress more than ceramic which might also affect tone at high volume levels. This is gut feel based more on reading than experiment.
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I have a few amps, but the prize of the bunch is a 65 Amps Tupelo. To the best of my understanding, it's a Vox-ish preamp into a Fender-ish 6V6 power section and a solid-state rectifier. I really dig the amp. It came stock with one of the Chinese made G12H-30 70th Anniversary speakers.
It sounds great when I jam rock stuff with my buddies...but since I've returned to school, those jam sessions are few and far between. So most of the time I'm just playing at home in my (newly remodeled) music room, working on jazz stuff for my weekly lesson.
At home in my little room, the G12H-30 can sound a bit harsh and stiff. The solid-state rectifier probably adds to this as well.
I swapped that speaker out with the Weber 12A125A from my 5E3 kit build, and like it quite a bit. It definitely softened up some of the harshness I was hearing. But it does take away some headroom....not that I really need it just playing at home. And I can always throw a 609 in front of it if I end up in a situation where I need volume.
The other thing is that I just feel like this amp is worthy of a "better" speaker than a $110 Weber. This is silly thinking, but can't help it.
So I'm thinking maybe Alnico Gold or Tone Tubby Chicago Blue. It's so hard to tell anything from demos and youtube videos.
What speaker do I want? Help!
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Have you considered the Celestion Cream? I've heard nothing but raves about it, and you're already getting close to the price. At 90W, the Cream will certainly have more headroom, and you will also have more flexibility with it down the road. IIRC one reviewer - might have been on Sweetwater or MF - dropped one into his Tupelo and loved it. -- Good luck.
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If you're looking for a boutique speaker take a look at the Austin Speaker Works KTS-70. The KTS-70 sounds incredible at home volumes but can also handle 80 watts. The KTS-70 is based on a G12H-30 but Austin Speaker Works's components and construction bring balance and detail not found in many speakers.
The Gold is also very clear and detailed with a great balance.
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