Some Experiments with Jazz and Dirt Pedals

[PB+J]

Ok here's another example of looking for a dirt pedal jazz tone. I could probably just buy a tweed amp and get the same effect, I know, but what the hell

This time, the comparison is between a Supro Drive and the Mojomojo



The supro drive is hyped as reproducing the power amp section of a Supro amp, which means class A, mid-forward. The pedal doesn't use diodes to get clipping: instead it uses something, probably Jfets, and an actual output transformer.

So heres the head from Midnight Blue, first through the Supro Drive, then through the mojomojo. Listen to Kenny again, you'll be surprised how dirty that tone is


8pm Blue

I think the mojomojo wins again. I like the Supro drive and I only just got it today so it's not dialed in but so far it's too gainey--I can only clean it up by rolling the volume back. In these to clips the guitar volume is back about 1/3 and in the second clip it's on full. its a really nice pedal in terms of "feel."

[omphalopsychos]

PB+J have you tried stacking any of these pedals or placing them before an equalizer? I find that attenuating the high treble frequencies can reduce some of the harshness/raspiness of overdrive pedals.

[MaxTwang]

Have you tried a Catalinbread 5F6? It's a tweed pedal with a full tone stack, designed for clean to driven tweed tones (not a heavy overdrive pedal).

Really nice pedal for clean and light dirt while retaining an amp-like tone and feel.

[PB+J]

I've never tried any pedal stacking--I kind of want to keep it simple. I've never tried any of the "tweed" pedals either--when I look at the demos, as is usual, all you see is guys playing heavily overdriven sounds and I'm a little suspicious. The demos sound raspy and nasty to me--for example (

) .


It's partly why I'm posting this stuff, because so many of the demos out there are kind of generic rock sounding.

The thing that drew me to the Supro was---the supro voice, which is a little more mid forward like an old gibson. But the Catalinbread or the Wampfler tweed 57 are on my list to try, once I sell some pedals!

Here's another clip of the Supro drive with more gain applied. This time a tele with a P90 in the neck. The clip is all P90. In this clip it starts with gain on the lowest setting and guitar volume maybe 1/3 back, and then I gradually bring up the guitar volume

http://spokeshave.net/music/suprohere.mp3

You can hear it's too gainey very quickly, but there's kind of a sweet spot where I like it

[tonyp145]

So I've spent weeks researching this stuff because I play a mix of swing and jump blues. My main amp these days is a Quilter MP200 which has a lot of tone shaping but I can't get it to 40s style sound. I thought about getting the Vintage 47 amp that Jonathan Stout demo'ed so well (I'm a fan brother, I'd love to see your act live someday) and I've looked at some other tube amps too. Anyway I decided to order the Jr Barnyard pedal to use with my Quilter. I'm thinking that could be a reasonable compromise. I'm just wondering what the wait time is going to be for this baby.

Anyway, I know this thread has gone a little cold, but I wanted to post here to thank the OP for his demo. That was very helpful along with other demos out there from the company and from Tommy Harkenrider. I'll post a demo of my own when I get the JB.

[omphalopsychos]

On a related note, I figured I'd post another bit of playing on this Valco amp. My personal and modest opinion, having both a vintage valco and a fender princeton, is that pedals are great and can get you most of the way there, but I'd still recommend finding a vintage Valco in good condition or checking out Vintage 47 amps.

[PB+J]

I'm on the fence. I bought a low wattage tube amp head for home recording/home playing, an ampeg GVT5h, and it gets a really terrific sound at the right volume.

The thing is, as we all know, managing to get that sound at the right volume, consistently, which is IMHO where pedals really shine.

[iainduncan]

This was really helpful, thanks!

[Burrellesque]

I have the Catalinbread Formula 55 and the J. Rockett Blue Note. Both are great pedals for a Blue Note jazz sound.

However I also have an octal tweed Deluxe clone in a larger cabinet with a Weber 12A125A speaker.... which nails that tone.

The pedals are great for a variety of slightly driven tones though, at any volume.

[darkwaters]

The TC Mojomojo is a great, low gain OD. Another pedal that I quite like is the TC Spark. It's a boost, rather than an OD, but it does have a gain knob, so it can do light OD. It also has a Voicing switch for Fat/Clean/Mid and, set to Mid, brings out the tweedier side of a Blackface Fender amp or can be set to Clean to add a little bit of mid-scoop to a tweed amp. It also has a ton of boost on tap for pushing the amp's front end. A very jazz friendly pedal IMO.

[Longways to Go]

Thanks PB+J for the Mojomojo recommendation

I'm using it with a Henriksen 110ER and it sound just great. I would likely never have found this combination without the Forum, as there are a bewildering number of dirt pedals out there and I would never be looking for such great performance from inexpensive gear. I also use a Fulltone fulldrive 3 in a similar manner. It sounds great too, but different -- maybe a bit boostier? The mojomojo is simpler to dail in for sure. Sure gives a bit of extra life to the clean Henriksen sound!

[PB+J]

Glad it worked out! It's an excellent pedal. I've been experimenting with the catalinbread formula 55 and I don't like it as much--it compresses the hell out of the signal--and also the Moog MF drive, which is very cool but much less intuitive to operate.

I've also used the Mojomojo on electric bass gigs and it's as good a bass drive as it is a guitar drive.

[ruger9]

+1 on the Blue Note.. one of the very few ODs I have found that work really well with full hollowbody guitars. Most ODs have too much compression for that application, imo.

The Junior Barnard has always interested me, to get a Charlie Christian sound w/o having to by an amp... I just never got around to buying one, and yes- Tavo (Nocturne) does have long wait times, he's pretty much a 1-man show. The JB isn't really an overdrive tho, right? It's more of a preamp/tone shaper?

[PB+J]

The Junior is interesting. Yes it was pricey and it took way longer than tavo said.

It has two sides. The right side is basically a preamp--it adds BAM the tone of an old octal preamp gibson with some overdrive. Then there are two miniswitches. The one on the face of the pedal voices the preamp for either bass or guitar--basically it rolls off lows when it's engaged. The one on the top (or side) of the pedal is adds more "wool" to the basic tone--a little bit more drive and more lows. It's not a clean preamp--to get a clean tone you need to back the guitar down. Turning up the preamp volume adds gain but not much drive

The left side is the "grits" switch, which adds a good deal of overdrive. Tavo includes a minimal instruction manual that shows how to set it up for a "fat boy rag" tone and yeah it really pretty much nails it.


I've been finding that I can get the octal preamp tone or close to it with my amp and a drive pedal. Where the Jr Barnyard would really shine is if you needed two amp sounds, like a blackface fender sound and a darker, Charlie Christian like sound. Or if you were touring and never knew what kind of backline you'd end up with. I like it better than the Catalinbread Formula55 for getting an old school (40s/50s) jazz tone

[ruger9]

for getting an old school (40s/50s) jazz tone

That's what I was thinking- an EH185 in a box, way cheaper than one of Tavo's Moonshine 39's or one of the Vintage 47s. That's why it's still on my "list" to buy someday...

Some say "why not just use an EQ pedal", but I like SIMPLE, I like the work being done for me (achieving the proper tone, just like buying a good amp), and I like supporting small businesses like Tavo's. I've known him since before he even started the whole "Nocturne Brain preamp" thing, when we were both obsessed with getting Brian Setzer's tone. We both really dig the old-school ES-150 + EH-185 tone as well... Junior, Charlie, etc...

I actually just installed a tone switch on my Grestch Hot Rod, to help achieve some old-school-like tones, and it actually works pretty well! I'd still like to get a Junior pedal tho.

[omphalopsychos]

How long did it end up taking to get the Jr Barnyard? I ordered one about a month ago and am still waiting patiently. His estimate is 10 weeks.

That's what I was thinking- an EH185 in a box, way cheaper than one of Tavo's Moonshine 39's or one of the Vintage 47s. That's why it's still on my "list" to buy someday...

Well, it's not way cheaper than a V47 amp. The pedal is $300. You can usually get really good deals on V47 amps used. I saw their EH 185 clone go for about $700 on ebay.

Two other amp character pedals possible worth looking into are the Bearfoot Honey Bee Overdrive and the Bearfoot Model G, which are designed to emulate vintage Valco and Gibson amps, respectively. In a lot of the demos you find online the presenter puts on way too much gain, but they do well for the early jazz sound with the gain down.

[PB+J]

How long did it end up taking to get the Jr Barnyard? I ordered one about a month ago and am still waiting patiently. His estimate is 10 weeks.



Well, it's not way cheaper than a V47 amp. The pedal is $300. You can usually get really good deals on V47 amps used. I saw their EH 185 clone go for about $700 on ebay.

Two other amp character pedals possible worth looking into are the Bearfoot Honey Bee Overdrive and the Bearfoot Model G, which are designed to emulate vintage Valco and Gibson amps, respectively. In a lot of the demos you find online the presenter puts on way too much gain, but they do well for the early jazz sound with the gain down.

It took fifteen weeks. I wrote to him at ten weeks and said "hey how's it going" and he said he was two weeks behind. Four weeks later he was just getting it done. He told me several times "it says ten weeks on the website" and I'd reply "yeah I know, it's been 14 weeks."

I't s a unique piece of gear and Tavo knows what he's about. I would not say it's the most elegantly wired pedal I've ever seen

[ruger9]

Wired like vintage gear! HA! Mojo! (have you ever seen the inside of some vintage pedals/effects/amps?)

[sgosnell]

To pick nits, that's Junior Barnard, who played guitar for Bob Wills in the mid 40s, and wrote Fat Boy Rag (Bob referred to him as "that fat boy" because he was far from skinny), not Barnyard.

[campusfive]

The pedal IS called a Junior Barnyard. It's a pun. Good times.

[feet]

while it doesn't get any specific sounds like you guys are after, i do like the emerson em-drive for this. its voiced kind of like an ep booster, but not as muddy, and with two separate controls. i run it at 18v and use it to give a little bit of life to the cleans on a 100 watt tube amp. adds a good amount of highs and lows, which in effect scoops some mids and lends itself well to clean archtops. and if you amp is of the low wattage variety, its easier to dial in a little bit of grit when you dig in, but still be warm and cleanish otherwise. it puts your amp in a warm, sort of agitated state, i guess, without really distorting it.

if you have a low watt amp, an eq pedal is a great way to go about it, too. you can hit it with more signal to push the amp, and boost/cut the frequencies to keep it from mushing out.

[sgosnell]

I guess I need to get out more. I've owned a total of two pedals in my life, and don't spend much, if any, time reading about them. Perhaps I should read more.

[Philco]

I'd like to thank the OP because I love the Mojo Mojo and it stopped me from spending way too much money looking for exactly this type of approach.

Before I read this thread I had bought and tried:
• Okko Diablo
• Okko Twin Sonic
• Catalinbread 5F6
• Fuchs Plush Valve Job
• Ethos Overdrive
• Ibanez Tube Screamer with every Mod.
• One other with a fancy name I can't remember.

I won't tell you how many $ that little experiment cost.

The Mojo Mojo did exactly what I was looking for.

[Longways to Go]

I guess I need to get out more. I've owned a total of two pedals in my life, and don't spend much, if any, time reading about them. Perhaps I should read more.

Ha ha! It's a deep rabbit hole . . .

but the Mojomojo is a super easy start

[Longways to Go]

I'd like to thank the OP because I love the Mojo Mojo and it stopped me from spending way too much money looking for exactly this type of approach.

Before I read this thread I had bought and tried:
• Okko Diablo
• Okko Twin Sonic
• Catalinbread 5F6
• Fuchs Plush Valve Job
• Ethos Overdrive
• Ibanez Tube Screamer with every Mod.
• One other with a fancy name I can't remember.

I won't tell you how many $ that little experiment cost.

The Mojo Mojo did exactly what I was looking for.

OD search can be long and deep. I hear ya! I started with a MXR classic overdrive, then a Fulltone Plimsoul, I tested a bunch of others and then later came upon a Fulltone Fulldrive 3 (I still love that one). Also I discovered fuzz along the way -- not driven too hard it can sound really good -- black arts pharaoh is working for me . . .

then I recently picked up a mojomojo. I should stop shopping soon . . .