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Wow! Somebody got unbelievable deals on some very nice guitars in above auction links!
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09-05-2016 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jads57
I reckon it was 2bop incognito ,or one of his scouts
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what's the deal there then - are there 'auctions' where dealers get their guitars and then they double the price and make a living that way?
or are these rare events? - its dead person stuff presumably (so that needn't be rare i suppose)
i always wondered how there could ever be any real margin in selling archtops
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Remind me to never put anything on that auction site. I might keep an eye on auctions as a buyer, though.
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Those pics don't do the guitar any justice Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Geez, that 400 is absolutely gorgeous. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Wow! Cal Collins' "Blues on My Mind" is one of my favorite jazz guitar CDs! Originally Posted by skykomishone
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over 20 years ago (!!!) I was lucky to pass by a (now long gone) Super Music Store in Cologne/Germany and they had a used Benedetto Fratello for sale. The store owner had personally ordered the guitar from Bob a few years earlier and it was sold to a local musician. He fell on hard times and brought the guitar in , I decided on the spot that this is a super rare opportunity and went into hock to buy it. A good move as it turned out , I played her for about 2 years at a few solo gigs and recordings and when I built my house I sold her for a 35% profit. As to the feel etc. I have to say that it beat the 3 Gibson Johnny Smith (a '63, '67 and '69) models I had owned previously in all counts, it had a super comfortable neck carve and the sunburst coloring was the prettiest I have ever seen. However, other than for very low volume Solo or Duo gigs and for playing at home it was not useable on stage. In the past 5 or 6 years I alternate between my Super-400 CES and a Victor Baker custom model (basically a plywood Byrdland with a long scale) when playing a Jazz gig, my recently acquired Andersen 17" Streamline is an indulgence and keeps me happy at home, noodling around on my sofa .... They all feel great and perform , each has it's individual perks, just like us ;-) and yes, just looking at them makes me smile, too ! I'm a lucky devil just to have them .....
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I have a 1997 Fratello made for me by Bob (and maybe Dale Unger who was Bobs apprentice at that time) in the E. Stroudsburg, PA, shop. It's not the guitar I play the most these days - mostly due to its present value and the risk of taking it out of the house but it's a wonderful instrument. When I ordered it, it was expensive, though not as expensive as they are now. It was shortly after Jimmy D'Aquisto's death, and Bob had only been the no. 1 builder for a year or so back then. In the next few years the prices increased steadily.
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Now that is a beautiful Fratello from a special time, Dane. My Cremona gets played out on every gig I do unless there is a reason not to-as I mentioned if it's outside on a super hot day or really cold out. I don't play venues where I'm concerned about a drunk patron crashing into it or theft. To 99% of the public it's just a guitar I guess. Here she is before a Sunday brunch gig at a hotel. A big part of the joy of owning it for me is playing out with it.
Cheers!
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ST, That is a beautiful guitar and I would bet it is as sweet as any. Keep gigging with it. Sharing great instruments with the world is part of the job description of being the custodian of a masterpiece instrument, IMO. Job well done!
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nothing against Benedetto owners, but keep in mind that most of the high profile players using them did not pay for them. Originally Posted by skykomishone
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Some years back, I was introduced to Howard Alden by a mutual friend. Howard came over to me house where we jammed quite a bit and I got to play his Benedetto. It was a superb guitar. Howard told me that he loved it and thought that Bob Benedetto had mastered the art of archtop building to where he was rivaling John D'Angelico and Jimmy D'Aquisto. While it may be true that that guitar was given to Howard (if so, a superb marketing ploy by Bob Benedetto), it is also true that it is a great guitar, made worthy in the hands of Howard's prodigious talent. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Well documented fact that Bob was very savvy about getting his work into the hands of gifted players. One other factor-he was willing to produce a top quality 7 string when there weren't that many being made. So-Bucky, John, Howard, Jimmy, Ron (I write this like they are all pals of mine-not) were out there making incredible music with over the top chops and tone.
I'm very joyful gigging out and privileged to be the custodian of my BC. It's got some music stand dings, some finish imperfections here and there, however this just gives her some soul. It's my voice.
There was a 60 minutes episode on the city of Cremona and all the priceless violins there. A very beautiful, talented young lady had the task of playing the instruments to keep them alive. Now that's a gig!
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Never had the opportunity to see, lest play a Benedetto.The OP's looks gorgeous. If attacked I would better protect it, get out of the frying pan range, and get a restriction.
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Some of them don't even play them anymore professionally, like Frank Vignola and Jimmy Bruno. Originally Posted by wintermoon
I'd love to play one of the archtops, but they're not easily available. The only Benedetto guitars I've played are the cheaper models, which IMHO didn't strike me as anything special.
Some luthiers, like Roger Borys, are strongly opposed to giving away guitars for free. He's told me that he was approached by many players, such as Herb Ellis and others, who usually tell him, "Look, I'll endorse your guitar, but you've got to give me one for free."
He always refuses to do it.
Even Emily Remler, who used to do demos for his guitars, paid for her Borys, which you can hear on "East To Wes".
The problem with the free guitar or amp for endorsement thing is that some people are doing them just to get some free gear.
I bought an amp (used) that was endorsed by a player I admired, and found that it was not as good as I thought it would be. When I contacted the endorser, he called it a 'tin can', and said he gave it away for free.
As I've said, I've never played a Benedetto archtop, and I'm sure they're fine guitars.
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We had a well known photographer here in Denmark who at a point was talked into an endorsement deal by Canon. He recieved two top of the line camera bodies and a nice and generous selection of lenses. However, he was by heart a Leica user and whenever he thought he was out of sight of Canon, he used his beloved Leicas. He never accepted endorsement deals again after that one ran out and often stressed that he paid for his gear himself. I remember him giving a presentation some years later. Someone asked: "Is it true that you use Agfa film?" to which he replied: "Do they say that?" He then went to lengths to explain that there were no bad films on the Danish market and which brand to choose was largely a question of what one was accustomed to and thus knew well. I remember Barney Kessel being quoted for something to the same effect when asked about his preferred string brand - and his conflict filled endorsement relationship with Gibson is well known. It seems that endorsement deals are not always pure happiness for the endorser. Originally Posted by sgcim
Last edited by oldane; 09-19-2016 at 04:10 PM.
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I owned a Benedetto for about a year. It was, as far as I can tell, the third 7-string he built, finished in 1978 not long after the first one he built for Bucky Pizzarelli. He had not mastered the 7-string yet. The neck was 1.75", far too narrow to handle 7 strings comfortably. I didn't play it a lot, mostly because I was so nervous about dinging it. I got it through a Guitar Center auction, of all places. My daughter worked there, and they had an auction of used instruments for employees, a thousand or so of them, mostly rock star types. She asked me if I wanted anything, and looking through the long list, near the bottom, was a 1978 Benedetto, with a minimum bid of just under $4k. I figured it would be worth that even if it was in poor shape, so I had her bid on it. There were no other bidders, remarkably. It turned out to have been bought by a collector, and in dead mint condition, not a ding, not a check, looked brand new although well over 30 years old. I kept it for a year, then doubled my money when I sold it. It wasn't the best guitar I ever played, but it was certainly the prettiest. It hadn't been played enough to really open up. I may eventually regret selling it, but the profit paid for a new roof on my house plus the Eastman I'm playing now, so I have no regrets yet.
BTW, it seems Jimmy Bruno is back with Benedetto, and is playing his now, and appearing at Benedetto sponsored events. I have no insight into the financial aspects of the deal. His Sadowsky was for sale on archtop.com, and looks like it has already sold.Last edited by sgosnell; 09-19-2016 at 09:10 PM.
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Played my Manhattan tonight - agreed...Awesome!
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A few years ago, while attending the Philadelphia Guitar Show, I passed the Benedetto booth. A gentleman asked me if I wanted to play one of the guitars. I declined. He asked me why and I responded "for the same reason I don't want to test drive a Ferrari or have dinner with Christina Aguilera*. It would just give me the Blues." Why make myself crazy.
* I would do Christina Aguilera in front of God, my mother and everybody!
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Don't know if it's the same guitar, however there were three early (1978-ish) Benedettos at the Hollywood GC on Sunset for many moons-I'm talking years. They hung on the upstairs wall overlooking the vintage area. As some SoCal members might remember, that store was a film theater originally. Originally Posted by sgosnell
There was a natural and ice-tea SB 6 string and a 7. I felt sorry for them, they had dust on them and old strings ala most of the archtops up there. Also, not helping the matter was totally unrealistic pricing-like 35K for the natural 6, 30K for the ice-tea and 16K for the 7.
Every time I was in town I stopped by and attempted to play all of them, and quite frankly, they were just OK although very ornate and pretty. The 7 was almost unplayable due to the narrow nut, which is a coincidence-maybe it was the same instrument.
Yes, I read on the Benedetto website that JB was back in the fold. Even though he was not an endorser at the time I heard he had some input on the design of the 16B. Just hearsay.
I did keep a photo the the 7 at the Hollywood GC:
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Yeah, that's the one I got. It has the "Sugar Ray" engraving on the pickguard. Nobody knows where that came from, it was added by an owner somewhere along the line. It was converted to a 6-string by Joe Vinikow's shop, and sold that way. The hole for the 7th string was filled and refinished. It played well as a 7-string, but the spacing was too close. I'm sure it plays great as a 6 string. The only info I got from Guitar Center was that it was acquired via guitar shows somewhere, sometime. $16K is out of line, and it wasn't selling as a 7-string because of the neck width. As a 6-string, it sold for north of $11K.
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Small world-but then again not that many B's out there and even fewer 7's. I do remember the "Sugar Ray" emblem on the pick guard. And I did see it on Joe's site for sale but didn't put 2 and 2 together. Same guitar converted to a 6.
When I stated it was 'almost unplayable" I was just referring to the nut and string spacing-I just meant unplayable by me. It was in outstanding condition. Glad it was able to pay for a new roof and Eastman-win-win. And the new owner has a nice Bob built instrument.
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Yeah, I understood what you meant by unplayable. The string spacing was just too close to be comfortable. I could play it, but it took some concentration. The action was great, straight neck, everything fine, but Bob hadn't completely figured out everything for a 7-string. Or maybe he knew he was making it for a collector, and just didn't care. No idea, other than 1.75" is too narrow to accomodate 7 strings.
The Eastman also came from Guitar Center, used. I got it for $900, which I think is a good value. It showed up filthy, with grungy strings and action way too high to play comfortably, but after some setup attention and fixing the nut, it's a great guitar, and has a very good acoustic tone even though it's a thinline. Like I said, I might regret selling the Benedetto someday, but not today.
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I just got finished listening to and watching the DVD of Howard Alden Live at the Smithsonian Cafe in 2006, where he was playing his 7 string Benedetto through a Raezer's Edge cabinet, and a head that looked like one of the AI amps.
Keeping in mind that sound preference is very subjective, I have mixed feelings about the sound HA got out of the Benedetto. It definitely wasn't that overly bassy, ill-defined, muddy, dark sound that some players get out of their axes.
However, it wasn't that warm, creamy, bell-like tone that other players get out of their guitars.
The sound was kind of a cold, clear, slightly treble sound, which I've found typical of most of the Benedettos I've heard live and on record.
The slightly treble sound of the guitar caused a kind of harsh sound when the plectrum hit the strings, mostly on chords, but sometimes on single string playing, also.
The guitar's intonation sounded perfect, and the board's playability must be extraordinary, based on the ease at which HA executed seemingly impossible passages, both chordally and single-line.
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