The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26
    All guitars, all M7's on the top 4 strings, amp or no amp. There's something about the resonant frequency between the 1 and 7 that results in the flutter as it occurs whenever those notes are played together. Funny that I never noticed this before given my years of playing.

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  3. #27

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    I have been playing around with my 16" laminate guitar, where I have find G notes to be problematic.

    I have two supermagnets under the tailpiece that seem to move the frequency of the offending note. I also have some elastic hair scrunchie wrapped around 3 of the strings, each string individually, 4th, 3rd, and 2nd strings, that seem to dampen things a little. There's about 5 wraps off scrunchie on each string and have them reasonably tight, but loose enough where I can easily slide and re-position the material, between the bridge and tailpiece. I find the 2nd string 8th fret and the 4th string 5th fret to be problematic.

    Although the hair scrunchie material works I am thinking I am still searching for other material that might be heavier and more precise.

    I am trying to force myself to spend more time with this instrument. I like this instrument however, my practice time gets disrupted, because I end up trying to resolve this problem.

    I stopped at a store yesterday and noticed the same response on the G 5th fret on another guitar. Something about G notes?

  4. #28

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    Hi all, I've found recently that Mr Schottmueller uses sth like this:

    Wolf Tones After Changing Strings-20747933_1269695103142881_625214420827376700_o-jpg

    is it a foam? or what do you think?

  5. #29

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    String, yarn, ribbon, foam all work behind the bridge to get rid of wolf tones. My favorite, super cheap method is to get silicone rubber grommets from the hardware store. They have a slit around the diameter that lets it be held between the strings to dampen unwanted vibrations.
    Wolf Tones After Changing Strings-20170814_144104-jpgWolf Tones After Changing Strings-20170814_144116-jpg

  6. #30

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    Looks like Mr. Schottmüller used Velcro.

  7. #31

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    Great idea, rubber grommets. My only concern is reaction with nitrocellulose over a long period. Sometimes, grommets drop off and lie on your guitar without you noticing...

  8. #32

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    there's a fine line with grommets...very hard to get exactly right size...too little and they can rattle (and move!) on their own...two large and they can deaden strings beyond just the bothersome overtones...

    you want to dampen not extinguish!! hah

    cheers

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    Looks like Mr. Schottmüller used Velcro.
    Indeed, it looks so! Thank you

  10. #34

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    Although I say this with some reluctance, I believe I have come up with something that is now working for me. I say reluctance as I find the wolf can be a little bit of a moving target that moves with humidity.

    I took two of those shiny super magnets that are a little bit larger in diameter than a dime and a little bit thicker. I put one inside the guitar next to the brace about 2" away from the bridge (between the bridge and pickup). I put the other one on the guitar top. The magnetic attraction of the two magnets holds both of them in place.

    You cannot see the one that's on top of the guitar as the pickguard hides it from view.

    I rationalized this would be similar to adding a little weight to a brace in that spot.

    My ear tells me this more effective than a lot of other solutions I have tried in the past. (Weight on the tailpiece, damping between the bridge and tailpiece)

    I have heard of people making slight shave to a brace to take care of problems. Anyone else experiment with adding weight to a brace? I am thinking adding weight is a lot less invasive with much less risk than shaving.

    I suppose there are other methods of adding weight that might be better. I am trying to think of a little clip that would fit nicely on the brace. Perhaps a fishing weight and tape?

    I did bring the guitar out last night to a louder bar room open mic and detected none of the problems I had experience in the past. For almost two years I have been debating whether I want to keep the guitar or not.
    Last edited by DanielleOM; 11-20-2017 at 01:10 PM.

  11. #35

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    For a string damper, I mostly use a piece of Velcro, only the loop side, cut to the width of the fingerboard, and slid underneath the strings just in front of the nut. It works well to prevent sympathetic string vibrations, and is easily removable. It does prevent playing open strings, just as any string damper does, but that's not a big concern to me. Some guitars need it worse than others. But I'm not sure that would help in the OP's case. Danielle's magnet trick might work, though. Sometimes just using magnets on the tailpiece can help. It can be time-consuming to find the best location for the weight, but it may be worth the effort.

  12. #36

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    Hey guys, was searching for info on wolf tones and found this thread. Hoping perhaps someone has any more idea about based on how my issue is manifesting.

    I have a guitar generously on loan from a friend and it has taken some getting used to but I think I have both the guitar where I want it and gotten used to it since it felt very different from what I wasn’t used to at first. There is on persistent issue though and that’s the high B on string one and two (frets 7 and 12 respectively) immediately die. There is no sustain, just the note attack accompanied by a faint high sound kind of like a harmonic. I have dealt with wolf tones on bass but I guess have been lucky enough to not have it happen on guitar before this.

    I have tried everything mentioned here so far and had actually gotten to most before reading here coincidentally. A variety of string gauges (as I was setting up the guitar to see what felt best for me), string heights, string break angles at the bridge (adjustable tailpiece), foam between the bridge and tailpiece (needed to eliminate resonance anyway). One thing I can’t adjust is pickup height and it is on the high side. When I tune down those frets ring out fine and where the B moves to due with the alternate tuning still exhibits the problem.

    Of all the notes i think this is one i’d choose (as opposed to Bb or C for example) but still is like to try to see what more I can do since I do it course still play those notes. Any ideas?

    Edit: I should add that while the B is incredibly pronounced with no sustain on both strings, the note immediately disappearing is more pronounced on string 1 and the other notes on that string don’t sustain as much as I would expect. It is a small body archtop with a 24.75” scale so I thought maybe that is why but thought I’d mention it in case it helps with diagnosing things. Trying to describe it, it’s like there’s a very high harmonic along with the fundamental. I was just playing the Song Is You and with all of the Bs it sounds almost like a banjo so the other notes are not at all on the level that B is so while all of that would be nice to address the B is really the main thing. Also further searches make me think I used the wrong name perhaps as it’s a dead spot.
    Last edited by rio; 06-24-2019 at 01:47 AM.

  13. #37

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    Years ago, I had a guitar with some dead notes (which is the opposite problem of wolf notes but is due to the same physical principle), and, as it was an expensive instrument I did some research and I ended up buying this magnetic device, which resulted in a great help.Wolf Tones After Changing Strings-img_20190624_123128-jpg

    As you can see, the maker doesn't produce a specific model for guitar but this one, intended for cello, worked well.

    Modulator - Krentz String WorksKrentz String Works

    BTW, I sold the guitar, but I keep the modulator. Who knows, maybe I'll use it on another instrument one day.

  14. #38

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    Is that a Flux Capacitor?

    Interesting, the Krentz Modulator. I wonder if its neodymium magnet would affect the magnetic pickups should it find an ideal position too close to them. Too, it is a form of mass damping and I wonder if two felt covered neodymium disc magnets would not achieve the same effect on a guitar at lower cost.
    Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-24-2019 at 07:00 AM.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    Maybe you should go back to flats. T-I Jazz Swings?

    I have got this yearning to tune to A432 after hearing Michael Chapdelaine. Not for any mystical reason but man, Michael tears it up. His guitars do sound great tuned to a lower A. There is something to it. I tried it on one guitar. Easier to sing along to and the strings feel softer under the fingers.

    Tune to A432 or any low A and see if the wolf notes go away. The energy that comes from playing stacked notes is causing some bodily resonance and you to got to move it away from that.

    I am going out on a limb here. Other than changing the wooden saddle to a TOM, loath as I am to suggest it, tweak the truss rod a smidge? Move the intrinsic tension in the neck assembly around. I'd back off the truss rod a little to lower the resonant frequency. 1/32nd of a turn. Just what I'd try.
    A430 also works really well for what you described. I also feel like it makes my archtops tone way warmer, but equally as loud, if not louder. I got the idea from Adam Neely.

  16. #40

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    A different tuning might help, but it makes playing with others problematic. I think I would try playing with mass in different locations. I would try the headstock, the tailpiece, different places on the body. The body can be difficult, depending on the guitar, but it might be possible to get some magnets inside through the f holes, and a magnet outside over the internal one. Or just use some Blu-Tack to attach weight in various locations on the top, starting near the bridge. Good luck with it, the top may just have a strong resonant frequency that can't be completely tuned out.

  17. #41

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    Maybe a long shot, but something else to check or eliminate...

    As it is string motion that the pickups detect, all oscillatory motions contribute, including twisting motions (rotations about the longitudinal axis of the string).

    Imagine twisting the string when putting it on so that the tuned string is subjected to a torsion about its axis held in equilibrium by the tuning tension. When the string is displaced by vibration from being played, its length and tension with respect to the scale length are cyclically increased and decreased... causing a similar cycle of rotation about its axis if there is a net torsion. You can see how these rotations are subject to the similar vibration partition elements of nodes and segments (the whole string rotating, two half lengths rotating opposite each other, etc.).

    Since the relationship between the cycles of rotation and tension are complexly related, and different for the various string gauges, winding, etc., but both cycle types change with the common connection between frequency and tension, some notes will be effected more than others... this is a mechanical relation, not a harmonic one, so the effected notes may be peculiar or specific singles or combinations.

    Twisting of strings may happen during string change application, the worst being those who place the string in, on, or through the tail piece/bridge and then proceed to insert the string end through the post hole followed by a few wraps of the string around the post directly by the fingers before beginning to turn the tuning key.

    To avoid twisting, just let the string lay limp through the post hole, pinch it near the bridge, and run that pinch up to the nut a few times to relieve any rotation before tuning up.

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    A different tuning might help, but it makes playing with others problematic. I think I would try playing with mass in different locations. I would try the headstock, the tailpiece, different places on the body. The body can be difficult, depending on the guitar, but it might be possible to get some magnets inside through the f holes, and a magnet outside over the internal one. Or just use some Blu-Tack to attach weight in various locations on the top, starting near the bridge. Good luck with it, the top may just have a strong resonant frequency that can't be completely tuned out.
    The tuning was just to see if it was a fret or the pitch itself, and even tuned differently that B is still dead, just on different frets so it confirmed that it is some resonance issue.

    I tried the blue tack and while interesting to see how it slightly affected the tone it didn’t fix anything. However I was searching more and found another thread here specifically about dead spots. Someone said to stand up and press the headstock against the wall - and it completely fixes the problem to my surprise. I ordered a Fat Finger to see if that will help. I tried everything I could think of around the house to add mass to the headstock and none of it worked so hopefully this will. I feel like at least I’m learning and have found something out. Next time I’m playing out is Friday so hopefully I can get it resolved by then.


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