Nylon guitar model for jazz

**Chev** · 07-10-2009, 10:46 AM

Hi,
anyone to tell anything about the Taylor nylon models?
Are they worth the money - or is there any other brand with similar specs?
Preferly less priced than the Taylors. I´ve been checking out he Godins but from what I´ve been able to hear on YouTube etc the only one that seems to have some body in the sound is the Grand auditoriums, but they don´t have that neck profile I´m looking for (since I mainly play bossajazz).
Glad for any tip
enjoy your day
cheers
chev

**derek** · 07-10-2009, 12:11 PM

You know, I always wanna like Taylor guitars, and I have played tons of them. However, they are always too bright for my ears. Bob Taylor is an amazing craftsman and designer, but I just can't get past the brightness, even though everything else about them is just wonderful.

I am fine if I go to a store and just play Taylors. Problem is, my fav acoustic store also carries Martin, Goodall, Collings, McPherson, Eastman and Huss & Dalton. So the Taylor sounds great until I pick up one of these others. I have only played one of their nylon stringed guitars and frankly wasn't that impressed.

Ken Hatfield and Gene Bertoncini both play Buscarino nylon guitars.

Buscarino Guitars Master Luthier or Archtop Jazz Guitars

**Chev** · 07-10-2009, 12:27 PM

Hi Derek and thanks for your opinion on the Taylors, I have tried some of the dreadnaughts but ended up with a Martin HD28 instead,the Taylors were not up to it for the price.The Buscarinos are way out of my budget.
Sure great guitars I believe. The traditional 2" nut and flat radius is fine for classical/flamenco style, but I´d like a 1 7/8(or a 48mm) nut and a 15-16 radius for my style, not too many affordables around what I have seen.
cheers
Chev

**Stackabones** · 07-10-2009, 12:49 PM

Breedlove Guitars: Performance Packages : Bossa Nova

**Doctor Jeff** · 07-10-2009, 12:55 PM

That Breedlove looks nice. I've never seen one in the flesh though.

I have the Alavarez AC60SC. It's a very good guitar and very versatile. I find the amplified sound to be excellent, even using just the piezo pickup. The nut is a bit wider than 2" as I recall. I previously had an RC20SC, with a radiused fretboard and a very narrow nut width. It was fine for jazz but not suitable for classical repertoire.

**Stackabones** · 07-10-2009, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

I have the Alavarez AC60SC. It's a very good guitar and very versatile. I find the amplified sound to be excellent, even using just the piezo pickup. The nut is a bit wider than 2" as I recall. I previously had an RC20SC, with a radiused fretboard and a very narrow nut width. It was fine for jazz but not suitable for classical repertoire.

I have that Alvie AC and have gigged with it. Good guitar, but I really don't like the heavy gloss finish, which imo restricts responsiveness. The elecronics are great ... I also added the internal mic to add some sound options. Works nicely.

**Chev** · 07-10-2009, 05:14 PM

Great! Now I got some options to check, that breedlove seems nice and will check the alvarez models too.
Thanks a lot for for links Stackabones.
Chev

**Stackabones** · 07-10-2009, 06:31 PM

You're welcome, Chev. Happy hunting.

**Sordello** · 07-11-2009, 12:09 AM

Hello Chev:

I have heard mostly negative reviews for the Taylor nylons. Most remarks are about "lack of mid and low punch" or "not a good acoustic tone" or some such...

I don't know about Swedish import laws/taxes but maybe a guitar from Ireland could fit your budget? I LOVE the look of the Avalon nylon cross-overs!

http://www.avalonguitars.com

Or, stay close to home - maybe this man can build you something special for about the same cost to import a guitar, with all the specs you want?

BENINCASO MICHELE, an italian Luthier in Stockholm op MySpace Music ? Gratis gestreamde MP3?s, foto?s en Videoclips

**Jazzhistory** · 07-14-2009, 05:49 PM

I bought one of the B series cutaway classicals by M. Rodriguez at GC. I have been very happy with it, but I played several of them. A couple of them were HORRIBLE. Play this one first!

**Jazzhistory** · 07-14-2009, 05:51 PM

For a while I had one of thise Alvarez RC20 crossovers. They are great for what they are but it is NOT a classical guitar. Sure was an easy player. (has a built in tuner) I couldn't sell it....gave it to my daughter.

**randalljazz** · 07-14-2009, 07:19 PM

best:

Ramirez 4CWE Cutaway Nylon String Acoustic Electric Guitar | Sam Ash Music 1-800-4-SAMASH

or:

http://www.music123.com/Jose-Ramirez...49838.Music123

**randalljazz** · 07-14-2009, 07:27 PM

lelt field:

Jazz Range (Size 1) | SmoothTalker Guitars

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-14-2009, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

That Breedlove looks nice. I've never seen one in the flesh though.

I have the Alavarez AC60SC. It's a very good guitar and very versatile. I find the amplified sound to be excellent, even using just the piezo pickup. The nut is a bit wider than 2" as I recall. I previously had an RC20SC, with a radiused fretboard and a very narrow nut width. It was fine for jazz but not suitable for classical repertoire.

I've always wondered about classical guitars: I can understand the wide neck, but why is the fretboard flat (radius == infinity)? It seems to make barring more difficult and nothing any easier.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-14-2009, 10:53 PM

Smoothtalkers: I prefer the archtop:

**Chev** · 07-15-2009, 01:27 PM

hi everyone - you´ve all been great tipping me on various models(and prices) of nylons. I´ve haven´t been able to check it all as I´ve just got out of hospital(suspected heartattack- but luckily not)so I will start looking into it tonight.
Get back when I know more.
Have a nice jazzy evening(or morning).
cheers

**Jazzhistory** · 07-16-2009, 08:52 PM

I haven't played a Phoenix, but I have seen their ads in magazines. That might be worth investigating. Take care of yourself!

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 07-16-2009, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I've always wondered about classical guitars: I can understand the wide neck, but why is the fretboard flat (radius == infinity)? It seems to make barring more difficult and nothing any easier.

Anybody? I searched and found this thread in a classical guitar forum: Classical Guitar Forum • View topic - flat fretboard vs. arched

quote:

I really think that the idea of a radiused fingerboard was taken from classical practice in the violin family, where it exists for good reasons because of the need to separate the strings of a bowed instrument from each other in the vertical plane to avoid the bow fouling adjacent strings. I have never been able to see any real reason to copy this practice in the guitar family (and indeed a lot of early steel-strung acoustic guitars have flat or near-flat fingerboards). Making the neck narrower is transparently an adaptation for smaller hands - the guitar was a popular instrument with women. Making the neck much narrower - especially in the lowest or 'open' position - looks like a concession to players who never venture above fret 5 and to players who like to fret bass notes with the thumb. Many guitar players who haven't had a classical training grip the neck with the whole palm, 'thumb-over', rather than placing the ball of the thumb in the centre of the back of the neck for maximum agility.

In other words, it's an example of a commercial product being adapted to the frailties of its mainly amateur and unschooled target market rather than designed from scratch with the needs of a virtuoso in mind. I don't think that it's a coincidence that as the technical skill of the best players of the electric instrument has increased dramatically (from the 1980s), electric guitar manufacturers have responded by producing instruments with necks that are wider, more nearly parallel-edged, and flatter-radiused: more like classical necks, in fact

.

Got that? We're small-handed, unschooled, girlie guitarists.

Edit: I don't have time to compose a reply, but it would raise the rhetorical question: who runs around crying when they break a nail?

**Chev** · 07-17-2009, 07:27 AM

Hi and thanks Jazzhistory!
I will take a look at the Phoenix, seen their ad in some old copy of Acoustic guitar.
Problem is I live in Stockholm,Sweden and even though it´s the capital city
there is not much to choose from in acoustic/archtop quality guitars,pretty much cheap standard stocks.
To buy something online from the US means tax 25% and toll 4-5% on top of purchase cost,shipping and insurance.And you don´t really know what you get then.So I´m searching for items withing the European Union to avoid these extra costs (and for faster delivery and eventual returns).
A lot of US sellers don´t ship to Europe or ask too much for the service.
USA is guitarheaven compared to Europe!

Big Daddy - according to the fretboard quotation - that guy must love pain ...
I´m a lumberjack and I´m so gay in my suspender and a bra... (or something like that from the Monty Pyton live at the Hollywood Bowl)

Ten cuidado con sus manos, guitarristas del mundo!

**rabbit** · 07-17-2009, 08:55 AM

Chev,
Just discover that Taylor is just NOW releasing a new,
low priced Nylon String model(s) with their own
proprietary pick-ups.

Taylor NS24ce & NS24e (cutaway or not)

Worth looking before you buy, good luck.

**Sordello** · 07-17-2009, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Got that? We're small-handed, unschooled, girlie guitarists.

Edit: I don't have time to compose a reply, but it would raise the rhetorical question: who runs around crying when they break a nail?

Yeh, well, everyone knows that jazz guitarists wet their beds more than classical guitarists! And they never do their own tax returns, coz, like, they're stupid, eh?

I actually thought the difference was that classical guitarists were supposed to have their thumbs solidly BEHIND the neck, so a flat neck was beneficial to that, whereas jazz players grasp the neck like whaling harpoons and have their thumbs all over the place. ???

**JohnW400** · 07-17-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Sordello

Yeh, well, everyone knows that jazz guitarists wet their beds more than classical guitarists! And they never do their own tax returns, coz, like, they're stupid, eh?

That's because we don't make any money. So theres nothing to declare

**Chev** · 07-25-2009, 01:35 PM

So I´ve been off for a while due to health issues.

Have checked the suggestions on guitars I recieved here from all nice people and came to the conclusion that most of these guitars are either too expensive(when you add up with tax and toll) or lack something I´m looking for.
Tomorrow I will try an Alhambra 7FcCw-e(it´s a flamenco,solid spruce/solid cypress)from 2001, they´re said to be ok and the price is fair. The guy told me the neck measures 1 7/8 at the nut but at Alhambras site they say it´s 50mm - anyone familiar with this model?
Alhambra also has a crossover model with
solid spruce/solid rosewood/cutaway/Fishman Pro/neck 48mm/ radius
etc.The price in Europe is around 1.700 US$
I have found another make that really seems intresting, fully handmade in Spain(no Korea,no China,no Mars..)at quite good prices.The name is (Hermanos) Camps and they are located in Girona,noth of Barcelona.They have a clean,very nice looking cutaway.
If anyone have experience of these guys, please let me know.
Did I have the money I would most likely go for a Hanika Fusion - they got tone!
Well - end of wishes for today - have a nice weekend and great gigs all of you!
Cheers

**JohnW400** · 07-27-2009, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Chev

So I´ve been off for a while due to health issues.

Have checked the suggestions on guitars I recieved here from all nice people and came to the conclusion that most of these guitars are either too expensive(when you add up with tax and toll) or lack something I´m looking for.
spruce/solid cypress)from 2001, they´re said to be ok and the price is fair. Tomorrow I will try an Alhambra 7FcCw-e(it´s a flamenco,solid The guy told me the neck measures 1 7/8 at the nut but at Alhambras site they say it´s 50mm - anyone familiar with this model?
Alhambra also has a crossover model with
solid spruce/solid rosewood/cutaway/Fishman Pro/neck 48mm/ radius
etc.The price in Europe is around 1.700 US$
I have found another make that really seems intresting, fully handmade in Spain(no Korea,no China,no Mars..)at quite good prices.The name is (Hermanos) Camps and they are located in Girona,noth of Barcelona.They have a clean,very nice looking cutaway.
If anyone have experience of these guys, please let me know.
Cheers

I'm in the same postion as you are. I've done quite a lot of research so far. Here's where I'm at. I've looked at several manufacturers that make cutaway classicals. Most have the 50mm nut which is slightly smaller than the full size box. I'm also looking for an all solid wood guitar and not just a solid top with laminate sides. I want this as I play unplugged 95% of the time so acoustic sound is higher up the priority list for me

Here are the makers I've checked out so far:

Prudencio Saez - Spain (model PS59 and PS90)
Alhambra - Spain (7P CWE)
Almansa - Spain (I'm told they're made by Alhambra) (459)
Lo Prinzi - USA (Cremona Cutaway)
Takamine - Japan (Th90 Hirade)

The Alhambra, Almansa and Takamine are all solid wood.
The Saez and the Lo Prinzi have laminated backs and sides. I'm checking both to see if they have a solid wood option and what the upcharge is.

All come with the Fishman Problend except the Takamine which uses the cool tube and LoPrinzi uses LR Baggs.

Moneywise they're all between $1500-$2000 USD. I've also seen these advertised at several sites in Spain and England.

One more model is a Giambattista G6 which I hear beats all of these models in tone and playability. It sells here for $3000 but it's on the luthiers site for 1500 to 1600 Euros. He's in France

PM me if you need any more info on those European sites

**Chev** · 07-27-2009, 03:48 PM

Hi John and thanks for your input.
I have tried to get hold of the Hermanos Camps, but no answer so far.
Hope they didn´t get caught in the wildfires there in Spain...

Anyway I did check out your tips and certainly the Giambattista looks interesting,could not find any other link than this:The Classical Guitar Store ...since 1967 and they want 2150$ for a G6(no cutaway).No direct link to luthier.

Could not find the Saez PS59/90 but the cutaway 169(spruce/rosewood) might be all solid, they don´t have a whole of tecspecs about anything really, so can´t be sure.

The Almanza 459 is probably cheaper than the Alhambras I guess, but again no details.

Lo Prinzi´s solids start at 3000$, so that is out of my reach(tax&toll is 30% on top of price/shipping/insurance).

So the Takamine could be worth a try if I cand find a dealer around here. It´s around 2000$.Again no real tecspecs.

I tried a Alhambra 7FCW-T yesterday and it was ok for the money, but the guy advertised it as a cw-model instead of the thin body,which doesn´t have the sound I want. Comfortable and good for stage.

If you have better links/info than what I found, please let me know.

A 50mm nut/full solid with cutaway is my preferences(won´t use it for gigs, so feedback´s no issue).

Good hunting!