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Hello all,
Today I purchased a vintage (60's/70's) Kawai hollow body (see pictures) and would appreciate any information and thoughts about this guitar. Please see the pics for best description. I like how it looks, feels and plays and the price was reasonable. It does have a good size neck joint shim which I'd be very interested in your feedback on. Overall I'm very pleased with it.
THANKS!
Rick
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06-01-2016 08:38 PM
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The action looks very high in the pictures. Is that just an optical illusion or is it really that high? Doesn't look like you can lower the action much at all as the bridge appears to be all the way down?
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Shim or not to shim? That is the question!
It looks to me like the pickups have been screwed out to their furthest point and someone has fashioned an ugly shim to avoid the strings rattling on the pole pieces compensate.
Now the question is;
- Whoever done this did they use longer neck screws to take up the depth of the shim?
- Has the screw holes in the neck heel been altered to allow the new screws to seat in place?
- Did they glue the shim in place?
- Did you get the original neck screws as part of the sale? If so do not remove the shim and use the longer screws to re-attach the neck.
- Are you prepared to pay extra cash to put these things right?
The truss rod adjustment nut should be seated within is cut out on the neck pocket. This alone shows that it's FUBAR.
Get your money back, I think this is a major hassle to put right and possibly costly too which will negate its value. Sorry to bring bad news but there it is.
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Bolt on neck, often an indicator of a production technique that is designed for cost effectiveness, over other other considerations. I hope it was cheap because it is cheap. It's not unusual to find guitars of this ilk, but not so common to find them still around. Many owners are not collectors and many instruments are not keepers.
That action is pretty high. The neck angle is really wonky. The top and end block may not be what they once were. The bridge is way down. You will not know how twisted, wavy or uneven the neck/frets are in a real playing configuration is until you lower the action. This means get the neck angle right. Start with neck shimming (one advantage of a bolt on neck). Until you do that, I won't even get into what else may be at play here.
At best, a neck shim brings it all back into perfect alignment, a perfectly straight and tensioned neck yields an amazingly and uncannily low buttery action with great acoustic clarity. Then you simply lower the pickups, raise the bridge and set the world on fire.
At worst... well let's just line up the neck and see what you've got. Luthiers make their careers on the things that could be built into a cost effective production Asian pre lawsuit instrument.
In an unrelated question, do you play slide?
David
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When I was taking guitar lessons as a 12 year old in Honolulu, this guitar model was for sale in the store. No shim, of course.
The shim appears to be a function of the state of the top arch.
The same guitar sold around Asia under the Sheltone and Prestige names, I believe. Very similar to Teisco.
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camj, can I ask you a question for you to check out? I can't see in the pictures but is the action between the 15-19 fret range get a little closer then drop off again? I'm asking if there seems to be a hump in the curve of the fingerboard around the area where the body joins the neck.
That would tell me something useful. I won't say anything more at this point but I am curious.
Thank you.
David
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Looking more closely at the body of the guitar, it would appear that the original setup involved a steeper neck angle, i.e., the neck swooped downwards from the body to the headstock at a more pronounced angle than currently. The shim was setup to substantially flatten this angle--while raising the overall neck height up. Of course, I could be wrong, but that's the way it appears to me.
My Gibson L-50 has a cello-like neck-to-body angle. It plays and sounds great. By comparison, modern Benedetto guitars have an almost Fender-like flat neck to body angle. I talked to Dale Ungar about this. He builds American Archtop guitars and uses the same angle. He was a student of Bob Benedetto's. It's just a design point.
It might be interesting to remove the shim and see what happens when you go back to approximately the original neck-to- body angle. Of course, the pickups would need to be lowered in their rings.
I think I have that _exact_ neck on a mid-60s, Japanese flattop guitar, by the way. It's in storage, so I cannot get it out and photograph it, but from memory I can tell you that the neck, tuners, inlays, and frets look identical. The flattop was sold under the Prestige name and served me well for several years of my early, knockabout playing. Many a beach campfire, etc. I even learned flatpicking on that guitar before discovering the early 70s Yamaha FG guitars. (Great quality for the price)
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David,
I checked guitar very carefully and the answer is NO to both of your questions.
Thanks,
Rick
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David,
Appreciate the feedback and will follow up with the neck. No, I do not play slide.
Best,
Rick
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Greentone,
Appreciate the comments! I'll follow up on your suggestions. My 1st guitar was a new Yamaha FG 110 in the early 70's and I concur - Great quality for the price. I'll have to pick it up and play for old times sake.
Cheers,
Rick
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Great news indeed. The fact that your neck is straight removes one prohibitive obstacle.
Originally Posted by camj
I asked about the slide because your neck is set at a reverse angle than should be on an archtop, any guitar for that matter. This would work quite nicely for slide or playing as lap steel. Different story for conventional playing. It sets the geometry off for everything. Once the neck is lowered (removing or reducing the size of the shim block), carefully use fine small shims to angle the neck downward from the plane of the top. You'll be able to tell at this point whether everything clears on the line between the nut and the bridge.
If you're unclear, a luthier can do it or guide you, or PM me off the forum and I can give you pointers that would get you well into the ballpark. Until then, all else is speculation. Can you play it OK with the action where it's set now?
David
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Hi David,
I really appreciate your efforts and informed guidance! THANKS!! Will be taking it in to a local luthier on Monday and will share your comments. To answer your question, I can play it OK with the action where it's set now up to around the 12th fret. FYI - I'm told it's a 1967/67 Kawai EP200.
Will keep you posted
Gonna go enjoy some sunshine!
Rick
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Congrats on a cool find, Rick! I always like to see Kawai guitars. This detail has no real value other than just a "hey, small world" thing, but my wife grew up basically across the street from the Kawai family in Hamamatsu, Japan. Family friends, kids played together.
I think they make some wonderful pianos, but I've never played one of their guitars. I have long been interested in a Kawai "Hound Dog Taylor" type of guitar that I think sounds great with a bottleneck slide. Certainly not an archtop though...
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Back in the 70's a lot of Japanese companies started their guitar careers with imitative instruments that showed their crafts and tooling infancy. A lot of them had been piano and classical makers from before the war, others were part of a keiretsu, or large conglomerate of many product lines (Yamaha motorcycles, pianos, guns, guitars...) and from the 70's on, their quality either continued to get better through the 80's or they stopped making guitars completely. Originally Posted by Flat
Kawai makes some really nice pianos these days. That's why I thought this one was so interesting.
If you look at Yamahas or Ibanez (Hoshino Gakku) of that era, they're instruments that were still trying to find their footing and they were still outside the arena of world class professional instruments, but they've got a certain funkiness that's all their own.
David
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I feel pretty certain that we must be getting pretty close to the End Times, when I see someone bragging about picking up a Kawai hollow body guitar from the 60s or early 70s.
My father bought one of those for about $20 in a flea market or something, and it was probably the worst guitar on planet earth. It looked just like that one.
The action was unplayable, and when you brought it down enough, it hit the pickups.
The pickups were so bad, they could not produce a usable sound.
The neck was so bent, you could have used it as a bow and arrow.
The volume and tone controls didn't work.
The tuners were always falling apart.
The nut was half in and half out.
The top felt like it was made of plastic.
Maybe you can try to sell it to Marc Ribot?
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sgcim,
Wow! For perspective, think more in terms of an average "Joe" sharing and seeking information & knowledge about his newly acquired guitar as opposed to any notion of "bragging".
Guitars like this Kawai are fun relics of a past age and nothing more. And despite it's flaws, I find it to be a cool, playable instrument which puts a smile on my face.
Life is good!
Cheers,
Rick
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You asked for information and knowledge about it... And this is coming from a man who played a Hondo Strat copy Originally Posted by camj
sgcim,
Wow! For perspective, think more in terms of an average "Joe" sharing and seeking information & knowledge about his newly acquired guitar as opposed to any notion of "bragging". Guitars like this Kawai are fun relics of a past age and nothing more. And despite it's flaws, I find it to be a cool, playable instrument which puts a smile on my face. Life is good!
Cheers,
Rick
professionally as his only electric guitar, until it literally fell apart!
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Cool !
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I found this early 70s acoustic 175 copy on Craigslist. Priced right given it's condition (no pickguard, poor setup, etc.) That said, a little tlc and it's a nice little player.
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C'mon, for a value line git there's a number of innovations that really high end makers could emulate.
The matching faux tortoise PG, removable switch plate and control plates on this one would make all the mods players so often do Sooooo much easier. All those screws holding down the tremolo would surely keep it from rattling. A nice clean head without a truss rod cover on it, zero fret, spruce top and Gibson pay attention here... BOUND F HOLES, head and NECK!
And FINALLY innovative marshmallow profile fret markers. Once you get that little guy setup mods will be a piece of cake for sure :-)
Seriously, the top doesn't look like it is or was sinking. The neck pup looks like it's just sitting cockeyed in its mounting ring. I'll bet the bridge is a replacement and the "tech" that installed the new one got one too high and rather than put the bridge right just shimmed the neck. I'd start by pulling the shim out and if the original screws are gone, cut down the existing ones, fit a proper height bridge first and take it from there. It really doesn't look like a big deal to straighten out to me.
Good luck and have fun with it.
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Start by removing the neck shim, then lower the pickups as close to the body as poss. Start by reshimming the neck with thin shims placed as far back into the neck cavity as poss. Then tighten the neck to see what kind of angle there is from nut to bridge saddle using a straight edge or just an old string tightened so as to be taught. If need be ,add more shims just until the string / straightedge clears the pickups say 1/4". at that point you should be able to reassess the guitar and get a better feel for its usefulness . If youre in the New England area ,Ill be happy to do this for you free of charge, just PM me. Bob
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