View Poll Results: Fender PRRI '68 or PRRI '65
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..mkln
Last edited by Wildcat; 05-03-2021 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Hkki
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05-27-2016 11:43 AM
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I bought a '68 Custom RI and almost immediately exchanged it for a '65 RI. The '68 has a different circuit and speaker from the 65 and from Princetons (and even most Fender amps) in general. For jazz I found the 68 to be way too boomy in the lower frequencies, which was virtually impossible to dial out. The different circuit and speaker has a sound that is aimed more toward the rock crowd as it sounds very good when cranked to the breakup point, beginning with the volume set from 5 on up, getting crunchier as the volume is increased. Although there are some on this forum who do prefer it over the 65 for jazz, this is my experience. I've read that its tone is very close to the Fender Bassman, which may be true, but I found that it has tonal characteristics more similar to a Marshall, most likely due to the stock Celestion speaker.
The 65, when I first got it home and kicked the tires, so to speak, was rather the opposite form the 68. It had a pronounced trebly tone that was difficult to dial out. I say "had" because I replaced the preamp tube in V1 with an nos 5751 and then replaced the stock speaker with a Weber 10F150, both of which warmed it up considerably. Now it's probably very close to an original '65. I still roll the treble knob to 0, but that's just my preference---I like a dark tone. I'm very happy with this amp, and the modifications were approximately $145. Great jazz amp! Versatile enough for other styles as well.Last edited by jbucklin; 05-27-2016 at 12:27 PM.
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The '68 is a nice amp in its own right but it is aimed more at dirty blues playin' which it kicks butt at! I found the reverb to be lacking compared to the '65 RI but the Tremolo is one of the best ever. I have the '65 Reissue LE which has the Alnico Jensen instead of the normal ceramic. It only took a couple of weeks of playing for the speaker to warm up on that one where my other amp with the ceramic Jensen took a year. In the end they both sound great! The alnico is a smoother transition in and out of overdriven tones which is very pleasant but the dirt happens sooner. The ceramic stays cleaner longer, but then falls over the cliff into a less pleasant, overdriven tone. Both speakers are great though but do require a break-in period.
Original Silver Face would be awesome too, however, be prepared to spend a little extra with an amp guy to get it up to snuff and speakers on those can become dry rotted and need to be replaced. However, once sorted, the vintage amp may prove to be a little more robust than the new ones...a little!
In my experience, the push pulls never served much purpose for me. They sound fine but its a superfluous feature for me.
I have ZERO issues with recommending the '65 Reissue. It will bring THE sound!Last edited by Ken Olmstead; 05-27-2016 at 12:49 PM.
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I have a student that has the '65 Princeton LE and it sounds incredible!
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The '65 is a more accurate blackface amp, according to Fender the '68 "Fender went further by reducing the negative feedback for an amp that overdrives faster and has increased touch sensitivity. It houses a 10" Celestion speaker for a distinct rock 'n' roll vibe. Fender's '68 Custom Princeton Reverb gives you tons of vintage vibe with a hot-rodded punch!"
Blackface amps have scooped mids compared to tweed, and also more headroom. The '65 Princeton can seem a bit bright, for Jazz I set bass & treble around 2 and am very happy. I have a '72 stock Princeton and the '65 Reissue with a Weber 10F150 and the '65 w/ the Weber is a bit fuller in the mids (probably the 50 watt Weber speaker rolling off some highs and filling out the mids). Of course a cheap graphic EQ can address the mids and roll off the extreme highs/lows and give you a really, really, really great jazz sound from a Princeton.
Vintage amps can be a headache, and with Princetons I'd be concerned about prior owners cranking them to 10 and abusing the speaker and output transformer. A vintage Princeton will need the electrolytic capacitors replaced (if they haven't been already).
If you want vintage then keep an eye on Craigslist and talk to an amp tech about how much it may cost to give a vintage Princeton a good go-through. I found my '72 a few months ago for $675 from someone who knew the amp had been modded and didn't want to deal with the hassle and expense of restoring the circuit (the amp appears to have original/correct speaker, tubes and transformers). I work on my own amps and took on the challenge, turns out whoever did the mods left the original parts in the amp and it was 5 minutes with a soldering iron to return to stock.
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The circuit of the '68 differs only a couple of caps and resistors from the '65 ($2 worth in parts) and they even use the same circuit board, so a '68 can be turned into a '65 - and vice versa - for very little money. (Except for the speaker of course).
But those minor changes in the circuit have a substantial influence on the sound and behaviour of the amp. I am tempted to say the '65 would be better suited for jazz, with more negative feedback to tame the gain and tighten up the bass, but I have never used either of them.
Just saying that, if you are handy and know your way around in amps (or have acces to someone who does) you don't have to be too afraid to buy the 'wrong' reissue as they can be turned into eachother easily.
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Tried both, went for '65 definititely. I should receive it next week. As explained in other thread the two '68 models I tried had a nasty buzz when playing a Bb on the low E string. I might have been unlucky but my prefered guitar shop says '68 have a lot of issue here in France. Don't know for you guys...
Best of luck.
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I liked the 68 more than the 65 personally, no idea why. But I'm not a fan of RI amps, would save the money and go vintage.
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Oooh, both look pretty sweet. Although for jazz speaker with less breakup might be better. Depends if you like alnico's compression or even will turn it up enough for that to matter.
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Yeah, I agree with Max Twang. Look into a Celestion Alnico Gold. $175 for a 10" at Sweetwater. Best speaker ever by a long shot. Perfect for jazz. You won't believe your ears when it starts getting broken in, which starts after just a couple of weeks.
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The 65 reissue series are better sounding to me and talking to dealer I trust he said people testing the both series are saying the same thing. I would also lean more towards the Deluxe Reverb than the Princeton for Jazz. Of the 68 series the Deluxe Reverb is the best of that series.
If you're patient and look around you can find real Silverface Fenders for a little more.
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That blue Princeton is certainly striking and the Celestion Blue is a great speaker - it is the speaker associated with the iconic Vox sound. Crisp highs and full mids. It is also known for beautiful swirling sounds that cause out of body experiences.
The Celestion Gold mentioned above is a recent attempt to make a 50 watt Blue (the Blue is rated at 15 wonderful watts).Last edited by MaxTwang; 05-28-2016 at 02:30 PM.
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I could make do with either, but I'd be inclined to spend my money on a 70s Silverface Princeton Amp and a reverb pedal. A non-reverb Princeton is about $750 if you shop around. Then, grab a reverb pedal for $125-150. You are ahead of the game, have an amp that will not depreciate over time, and have a wonderful sounding rig.
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Yeah, but the Celestion Gold is....GOLD!!! ;^)
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Eminence 1028K.
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Purple Princeton.
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I'm a big fan of that Celestion Blue Alnico. It came mated with a Weber Blue in a deluxe style Headstrong...I'd recommend TAD Premium 7025's over stock 12AX7's if you prefer an upgraded tube...the audiophile in me found X7's noisy for my tastes... At any rate, great looking amp for anyone desiring something portable!
Originally Posted by Wildcat
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Originally Posted by Greentone
You will not loose money down the road if you buy a vintage Silverface Princeton. Prices are rising, especially on the better ones. Reverb models are priced about $500 - $1,000 higher!!
Most vintage amps need a little maintenance/restoration, so be prepared. But in the end, it will last, sound great, and be trouble free with reasonable care. Toss in quality tubes, and you are set for a great sounding, reliable amp.
As tempting as the limited edition PRRI models are, I recently decided to go vintage, and only considered a non-reverb Princeton. After scouring the market I found a nice used but not abused Silverface Princeton drip edge, advertised as a '69. After it arrived I checked the numbers and discovered it had tranny codes from '68 and chassis serial numbered as a '69, making it a bit more desirable to collectors. Good news when it comes time to sell way down the road.
So there are more options to consider. New vs. Old; 1x10 vs. 1x12 Ltd. Ed., etc.
Let us know what you decide. Happy amp hunting!
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celestion alnico blue is a great speaker...two of them in an ac30 is classic sound...but it's a 15 watt speaker..which means its gonna get hairy, much faster than the celestion gold....the gold was made to emulate the tone of the blue but take 2-3x the power...so it remains cleaner longer..which i think is better for jazz oriented tones...a gold in a 15 watt amp is gonna deliver the true sound of the guitar and amp...not add it's own color/grind
i love'm both...and celestion also have a newer creamback alnico..which does about 80-90 watts...and sounds terrific as well
the op's blue princeton is nice, but for that $$$ you are approaching boutique quality amp builds...lots of great choices at that pricepoint..and remember this prineton is not ptp..its circuitboard...for that kinda scratch you could have a handwired amp
cheers
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The Celestion Gold is very, very close to the Blue - unless you have them side by side in identical rigs you probably won't notice a difference. The Blue will break up earlier but if you've heard a Vox AC-15 then you've heard how loud a Blue can get. Being a 50 watt speaker the Gold is a tad less delicate & detailed in the highs. If you're looking for really sweet highs at moderate volume then the highs in the Blue are ethereal.
Here's a good comparison of the Blue vs. the alnico Silver (which is somewhat like a Greenback). The Blue is a really unique and special speaker.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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tone tubby- purple haze
(blue) cheers
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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