Why Isn't the Original Zigzag Gibson ES-175 Tailpiece Available?

[Greentone]

FWIW, here's the chrome tailpiece on my '68 ES-175:

[ksteijn]

My 2014 1959 got it right, so somewhere along the way Gibson revisited the authenticity factor.

Mine even has the skinny frets. Does the 2006 have those?

No, I would say it does not. Somewhere on the web (via Google search of "Gibson es-175" I came across an interview with the manager of the Nashville factory. In it he said they had tracked down the originals drawings for the '59 tailpiece and began manufacture of them to the original specs. This definitely was in regard to the new re-issue model (2013 or 2014.). So it's not really surprising that the 2006 has some differences.

You can look up pictures of my guitar- I bought it in May from agarcia on this forum, and his post is still up in the for sale section. Also it was on Reverb.com, sold last November (presumably to Mr. Garcia) and if you know how to view old postings in reverb.com (via a search parameter like "ended=true") you can see lots of really good photos there as well. Whatever they got wrong, they got a lot right because it's an excellent guitar, with awesome mellow woody tone and a super neck, and it's also flat-out gorgeous to look at. Couldn't be happier with it.

[acidskiffle]

Hi,

Does anyone know where you can purchase a reproduction tailpiece for a 175 that has the correct spacing. So far I've only come across them with the wide space between the zigzags and centre bar except for one on WD Music but that's in black. Their nickel and chrome modes revert to the wider spacing.

[Herbie]

I don’t know but there is some ES-175 tailpieces for sale in Ebay. They are mostly the zigzag version and usually quite expensive.

Now and then I have searched the basic ES-175 tailpiece, aged or not, but they seem to be one of the rarest things on Earth. Weird.

Good luck for the hunt!

[wimd]

I do have a gold plated one. But there is a guitar attached to it.

[Hammertone]

I think the has the correct spacing.
TP-0420 Fancy Trapeze Tailpiece for ES-175 — Allparts Music

[Crm114]

Finding a zigzag tailpiece like the one you’re describing is a very expensive propositition

I know because I’ve got two 50s vintage ES 175. I have a ‘57 with the factory Bigsby and the seller offered me an array of zigzag tail pieces - two were chrome re-pros some genuine nickel from that era the cheapest one was $160 the vintage correct one was well north of $400.00
you can get a repro from WD parts but it’s probably chrome or you can look around on reverb and eBay for a vintage nickel plated one and they’re not cheap that’s just the way it is man

[Crm114]

A quick search on reverb turned up a number of vintage nickel ES 175 tailpieces like you described but man if they got an expensive
ouch
I get a headache just looking at it
Vintage correct out of Chicago has a nickel one for about 250 bucks I don’t know if it’s exactly the shape you want you’ll have to look but that’s a really good price but really expensive

[acidskiffle]

Would this do the job? I think it has the correct spacing.
TP-0420 Fancy Trapeze Tailpiece for ES-175 — Allparts Music

Thanks for this. Its similar to the one of have already, the curves are more angular (if that even makes sense) and they aren't close enough to the centre bar.

There are plenty vintage ones but they are extremely pricy. I don't understand why the guys that make the repros don't just make them like the vintage ones?

It's OCD I know and at the end of the day the guitar plays great so who cares, but for some reason I keep looking

[acidskiffle]

This is the closest I found that is pretty cheap, but it's black. Maybe it would sand off?




It is a very subtle difference I guess.

[Little Jay]

Perhaps you can have the black one treated by a metal worker. Have it nickeled or chromed in an electrolysis bath. I understand there’s always nickel under chrome and it’s even possible to have the chrome removed that way.

[Hammertone]

.

I recognize that washing machine.

[icr]

This is the Allparts one on my Ibanez "175." My Gibson ES-175 did not come with a zig-zag tailpiece, so I don't have any comparison to the real-deal.
I think the Allparts is more of an Ibanez copy anyway. So very fitting for my Ibanez! (my original Ibanez tailpiece broke by the way.)

[garybaldy]

I know there is a reproduction of the ES175 "zigzag" tailpiece out there, but it's not authentic. The "zigzags" on the tailpiece in the 1950's touched, or almost touched, the center strut (see second pic below). The reproductions out there all have a rather large space and don't touch the central strut (see first pic below).

I'm wondering why nobody has produced a fully authentic reproduction of the original design? It's hard to imagine a patent allowing the whole thing to be reproduced but not letting the zigzags touch the center strut.Attachment 29861Attachment 29860

I love rekindling old threads!
I came across this on ebay for less than 16GBP. Obviously not genuine but if you squint it seems to be the correct shape. I may have bought a pig in a poke but what the hell. It hasn't arrived yet.
Still on the search for the elusive rubber grommet!!

[GuyBoden]

What's wrong with the original 175 tailpiece?

More robust surely?

I have one on my 1949 Gibson L4C.



New reproductions are available here:
ALL PARTS(R) TRAPEZE TAILPIECE PARALLDLOGRAMS FOR GIBSON(R) 175(R) AND L-7(R) NICKEL - Fred's Guitar Parts

[lawson-stone]

What's wrong with the original 175 tailpiece?

More robust surely?

I have one on my 1949 Gibson L4C.



New reproductions are available here:
ALL PARTS(R) TRAPEZE TAILPIECE PARALLDLOGRAMS FOR GIBSON(R) 175(R) AND L-7(R) NICKEL - Fred's Guitar Parts

The zig-zag is the original ES175 tailpiece, and the main distinction between the original and later imitations of it is that the inward bending wires almost touch the center on the originals, and clearly don't extend that far in on the originals. It's just a matter of some people enjoying the historical authenticity of the older tailpiece.

[garybaldy]

What's wrong with the original 175 tailpiece?

More robust surely?

I have one on my 1949 Gibson L4C.



New reproductions are available here:
ALL PARTS(R) TRAPEZE TAILPIECE PARALLDLOGRAMS FOR GIBSON(R) 175(R) AND L-7(R) NICKEL - Fred's Guitar Parts

We like the zigzag on our late '50s/ early '60s 175s. It's just that some are preferred to others. And there's a fundamental difference between the zigzags on the link you give and the zigzags to which the OP is referring.

[GuyBoden]

The zig-zag is the original ES175 tailpiece

Maybe in the 1950-60's, but the original Gibson ES-175 from1949, the first year of issue, didn't have the zig-zag tailpiece.

See this pic of an original 1949 Gibson ES-175:


Edit: I've owned a 1949 Gibson L4C for nearly 20 years, which has the same older style tailpiece as the 1949 Gibson ES-175 I'm referring too.
The zig-zag tailpieces were obviously on later guitars and more expensive.

[lawson-stone]

Maybe in the 1950-60's, but the original Gibson ES-175 from1949, the first year of issue, didn't have the zig-zag tailpiece.

See this pic of an original 1949 Gibson ES-175:

Right you are! I stand corrected. I think the zig-zag came in with the switch to humbucking pickups and the "PAF" era. Maybe 1957? So if someone wants the vibe of that era, they want a zig-zag. Thanks for the correction!

[GuyBoden]

Right you are! I stand corrected. I think the zig-zag came in with the switch to humbucking pickups and the "PAF" era. Maybe 1957? So if someone wants the vibe of that era, they want a zig-zag. Thanks for the correction!

The earliest pics I've seen of a zig-zag tailpiece is a 1951 ES-175 with a single P90 pickup. (Edit: But, the tailpiece could have been upgraded at anytime.)
Thoughts On This Near Immaculate 1951 Gibson ES-175

[Hammertone]

The earliest pics I've seen of a zig-zag tailpiece is a 1951 ES-175 with a single P90 pickup. (Edit: But, the tailpiece have been upgraded at anytime.)Thoughts On This Near Immaculate 1951 Gibson ES-175

100% replaced tailpiece.

I love rekindling old threads!
I came across this on ebay for less than 16GBP. Obviously not genuine but if you squint it seems to be the correct shape. I may have bought a pig in a poke but what the hell. It hasn't arrived yet.
Still on the search for the elusive rubber grommet!!

I just replaced a broken one with a replacement directly from Gibson. That looks exactly correct for a current Gibson zig-zag tailpiece.

[garybaldy]

100% replaced tailpiece.

I just replaced a broken one with a replacement directly from Gibson. That looks exactly correct for a current Gibson zig-zag tailpiece.

That's interesting that Gibson supplied the replacement. It always seems that people struggle with Gibson over replacements. Was it because it was to replace a broken one rather than use it on some other guitar?
I was so surprised to see the one on Ebay UK, and for just over 15GBP BIN! The seller did work on guitars and was clearing his workshop. He said he couldn't remember the guitar it came from but thought it was a 'high end' instrument! It seemed really cheap regardless. It's been posted but I haven't got it yet.
As I said before, I'd like to stumble on some grommets! Perhaps Gibson could supply some. I wouldn't know how to go about that though.

[Hammertone]

That's interesting that Gibson supplied the replacement. It always seems that people struggle with Gibson over replacements. Was it because it was to replace a broken one rather than use it on some other guitar?...

Gibson replaced a broken tailpiece on a Gibson ES-175 '59 Historic Reissue. That guitar was purchased new in the USA, and is covered by a warranty for the original owner, against defects in materials and workmanship. Suitable documentation was provided to make the warranty claim.

[Ol' Fret]

From a purely mechanical and functional point of view: Do these external zigzag wires make any functional sense or do they serve purely as an embellishment? If you look at the direction of the acting forces (string pull), then these wires tend to elongate in a more or less uncontrolled manner due to the spring effect of the zigzag. Maybe a reason to go back to the first, original form, which makes more sense in this regard.

[garybaldy]

From a purely mechanical and functional point of view: Do these external zigzag wires make any functional sense or do they serve purely as an embellishment? If you look at the direction of the acting forces (string pull), then these wires tend to elongate in a more or less uncontrolled manner due to the spring effect of the zigzag. Maybe a reason to go back to the first, original form, which makes more sense in this regard.

Yeah. I would say it's purely decorative. I like the look. The one on my 175 has lasted 61 years so far. And the fake one on my Japanese copy has lasted around 50 years at a guess.