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The perfect jazz guitar..... you make it yourself!
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03-13-2021 04:40 PM
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Hi-What was the 335 type guitar originally? Thanks
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Originally Posted by Doug B
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Originally Posted by Little Jay
Thanks
Doug
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Originally Posted by Doug B
DIY ES-330/Casino kit guitar
Yes, I installed all hardware myself, including the wiring harness!Last edited by Little Jay; 03-15-2021 at 03:53 PM.
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A P90 Les Paul with flatwounds, unless I am playing acoustic, in which case It’s an L50 (also with flatwounds.
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I think it depends on how much versatility you want. If you want to play both jazz and other forms of music, e.g. blues, fusion, it’s hard to beat a semi-hollow, e.g. Gibson es-335 form factor. My personal favorites in this category are the Collings I-35 and the Collings SoCo. If you want a strictly jazz box, you’ll probably want an archtop. If money was no object, I’d say a Benedetto (a Manhattan, Fratello, or Cremona) or a Buscarino (a Virtuouso or Monarch). You can also go for a vintage Gibson such as an L5 CES, Super 400, or es-175. Another archtop alternative that I really love myself is the Collings CL Jazz. It’s a thinline archtop, but the build quality and sound are fantastic.
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Of all the acoustic archtops I've heard over the years, the one that really impressed me was a 1952 L7 belonging to the father of a good friend. It had been fitted with an old Rhythm Chief monkey on a stick, which Ron used when playing with Edmundo Ross's latin jazz orchestra - but when he played at home it was mostly acoustic and he took it off to play. The tone of that guitar was so full and sweet, but it had some bark it it was needed.
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I feel like taking the es-235 (sic), copy it but hollow with PRS 25” neck and a little block under the bridge with through-body strings.
Maybe in a few years when I have time to play daily....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I haven't posted anything on this thread for many years! Life happens! :-) I hope I am not being repetitive!
After playing for many years I have come to the conclusion that the perfect jazz guitar doesn't exist. I mostly played a Telecaster when I was in the Air Force band (or some other solid body). The big bands I played with in the Air Force were louder than the rock, country, and small jazz groups. My hollowbodies were a nightmare to tour with and just got buried in the mix. To be candid, the bands were too loud because they put a mic in front of everyone and often had me sit in front of the drums or trumpets (At least in those bands I was in). There was no way I could play an acoustic on a Count Basie chart in that situation. A solid body was the right tool.
I have heard many players with a great sound on every type of guitar. I have also heard people with a sound I don't care for on practically every type of guitar. Within reason, it ain't the guitar!
I love acoustic guitars. I am very fortunate to own two Andersen archtops (a 2009 17" and a 2011 archie) and an OM style guitar made by John Thayer. The rig I gig with the most is a custom shop Tele and a vintage black face Princeton Reverb (I am 64, so I have accumulated this gear over many years). However, this gear is a luxury, as the expense and value are well above what is necessary. Some of my gear was gifted to me by past mentors who bought it before it was expensive. Absolutely, I am fortunate to own great gear.
But,
In spite of the cost of this gear, I would argue you could get a great guitar and a great amp for very little money if you do your homework and really understand what tools you need. I played an Indonesian "Vintage Vibe" Tele once that was incredible that was only $300. Sure, maybe some hardware upgrades, but the guitar was very resonant. I have also seen great vintage amps, brands that people ignore, because they weren't Fender, Vox or Marshall. I toured for years with a Pearce G2r and it was a killer amp. Lab amps, Aims amps, etc. There are some great brand "X" amps. The solid state Yamaha amps from the early '80s (G112 I believe was the amp I used?) are killer clean amps. And, you will also get a little leg up on developing "your" sound. That may be the most difficult goal to achieve. Having an identifiable sound.
The point of this wordy post is I hope younger players don't get bummed about gear cost. Learn what makes a guitar work and you will come to the conclusion that a 1959 Les Paul is a slab of wood with strings on it. They are not all great. I have a played few and they are just guitars. But, sometimes, in spite of where it was built or price, there is a marriage of materials that surpasses pedigree.
Good luck and have fun on the journey!Last edited by Butch; 06-10-2021 at 05:56 PM.
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Epi Byrdland? I like that!
Last edited by Runegitane; 08-28-2021 at 01:17 PM. Reason: spelling
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I was responding to one of the older posts in this thread that had a photo of an Epiphone Elitist, that appears to be a Byrdland copy.
There's no perfect jazz guitar sound, just what works for your self expression. Even the classic players within various eras had very individual sounds even sometimes playing the same basic gear. I do think it helps if one's guitar choice is informed by a lot of listening to the range of sounds. Not just guitarists.
One thing I have found going back over decades of personal gig tapes is that there is a consistency in tone regardless of the guitar and amp used that generally outweighs the differences in setups. Listening back, I often can't remember what I was playing, but how many times I thought, man if I had such and such instead of this...I would be closer to my imagined sound.Having said that, I always felt that each subsequent instrument had something to teach me. I know that sounds weird, but I only owned 1 guitar at a time back in the day and always had to sell one to get another. And there were some classics that a smarter person would have tried to hang on to. Later when I gave in to a day job and had more money I acquired more, but never felt right about it somehow. I liked having "my" guitar, if that makes sense... now though I have two main ax's, a "purist" and the "all arounder". The first being a Slaman archtop with Loller CC pickup and Vintage 47 amp. This is my idea of perfection based on my traditional guitar influences. It is remarkably versitile in addition. But my go to for just about anything I might need to do is a Reverend PA-1 Pete Anderson signature with either the V47 amp or a DV Mark 12" little jazz depending on the gig. I could easily live with only the Reverend PA-1. On both guitars I am using Rotosound Top Tape monosteel flatwounds 12-52.
Those are about "perfect" for me.
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Originally Posted by Runegitane
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I don't have many to compare but this Fenix FAE8 has certainly loosened up over its life time of nearly 25 years.
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Originally Posted by Butch
You can save on better parts too. Every time I go in a music store, I look in the "sale bin" and buy "shelf stock" for future use. I'd scored a clearance deal on a box of 12 string Gotoh tuners a few years before. So I stuck 7 of them on the Paul. I had a set of EMG actives (bought out of another clearance bin) that I put in with the EMG wiring and hardware that came with them. I inspected the bridge and tailpiece with a magnifying lens and ran a soft, fleecy cloth over every surface to find burs or other irregularities that might break a string - and there were none. So it's been a loyal sidekick for many years.
After breaking 2 new E1 strings within an hour of putting them on the Raines, I disassembled the generic unit that came on it and found a bur where the string rests on the top edge of the hole through which it enters from the body. I smoothed and polished the edges of the holes, which solved the breakage problem. But I also ordered and installed a Hipshot bridge/tailpiece (which is a beautiful product that I love). I ordered a pair of Lace Alumitone HBs to replace the Artec HBC117s that came in it, and I added a Tusq nut.
The other must-have for an inexpensive guitar to become gigworthy is a great setup. A good luthier or tech can make it play like a dream and is well worth the cost if you can't do it yourself.Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 09-08-2021 at 12:33 PM.
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nevershouldhavesoldit - I love that handle!
My perfect jazz guitar...
For tone I'd like a big 18" full hollow body archtop, all solid carved with traditional f holes. I hope it could sound great unplugged as well as with an amp. I'd love to have a Johnny Smith floating mini humbucker in the neck. And I always thought it was cool that Martin Taylor had the blend function with the magnetic pickup and a bridge undersaddle pickup.
For playability, a 25" scale with a C neck profile and an ebony fingerboard. I'd like the nut to be 1.75" or 1.72" (Godin) at a minimum. My fingers need the space and I like fingerstyle.
Aesthetics... I'm a sucker for the D'Angelico headstock and imperial tuners. Ebony pickguard with thumbwheel controls to not mess up the look of the top. Better have matching ebony bridge and tailpiece cover. I'm a sucker for Eastman's classic finish. Oh, and the case has to be tweed. LOL
So my perfect guitar doesn't exist and if it did, I probably couldn't afford it. If I'm lucky, St Peter will hand it to me as I pass through the pearly gates. Maybe an Eastman AR910CE is the closest thing to heaven on earth for a stock guitar and I haven't even had the courage to pick one up for a test play at a shop.
Thanks for this thread that will probably live on forever and letting me indulge in my fantasy guitar.
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Originally Posted by garybaldy
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Originally Posted by Woody Sound
It was my first archtop (excluding my Favino gypsy jazz oval hole) bought in 1998 new. I really only started to play it in earnest at the beginning of covid. I've bought 5 more budget ATs since then, the last of which being a Loar LH700.
I'm mainly a rock guitarist and jazz upright bass player. Cheers
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Originally Posted by Butch
Well said! And probably true in a much broader sense than guitars. I’m glad perfection doesn’t exist. Life would be boring, I guess.
As a player, I envy people who play one guitar all the time and never change (or at least not until it falls apart). Think Brian May, Rory Gallagher, Willie Nelson. The ‘one true love’ kind of thing. But to me, the joy is not just playing but also appreciating how different instruments inspire me in different ways. Just as with people I guess.
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Well...there is no such thing as Perfect Jazz guitar, It always a question of personal taste. The one you find that feels just right in your hands when you first try it on for the size.
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My favorite out of all my guitars is the Gibson L4CES. It just feels and plays like an old comfortable house slipper. The tone rings perfect.
Aesthetically it has the popular shape of the ES-175, some appointments of the L5CES, ebony fretboard, and a carved spruce top which works great here.
Most importantly it has such a smooth sound.
Does anybody know if there is another Gibson model that features the parallelogram inlays with the ebony fingerboard? Thank you!
Last edited by Sleeko; 08-20-2022 at 07:51 PM.
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For me, I like that late night, smokey warm sound that you get from a hollow body guitar. A decent Gibson does that for me.
Tony
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Don’t take my anwers too seriously, but based on my latest insights a (modded) Ibanez AF-55 is the perfect jazzguitar, because:
- it plays superbly
- it has that classic jazz sound
But most of all:
- humbuckers operate noise free
- it has a nearly indestructible poly finish
- it’s cheap
- it’s lightweight
Those last criteria make that I take it to the jam sessions and small bar gigs more than other guitars! (Which is where 90% of my jazz gigs take place), don’t mind this guitar to be kicked around a bit.
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Bought Jan 2021, my af55 is still stock. Guitarwise I don't get out playing much currently but I mostly use my Loar 700 for the old style I play.
Last edited by garybaldy; 08-21-2022 at 10:56 AM.
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Originally Posted by Runegitane
On another note, construction and woods used are quite nice. Compared to my L4, a little stiffly but still a nice feel. Like the short scale too.
KA PAF info please
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