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I really don't hear to much about Fender Jazzmaster guitars...
Are they just not popular among jazz player?
Any idea why?
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06-20-2009 01:40 PM
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Joe Pass used one at one time, sometime in the 60s. (of course, Joe would routinely pick up any old instrument and make it sound good!) Nels Cline uses one today. Yes, I know he's a member of that god awful, massively over-rated rock schlock band, Wilco. But still, I've heard some of his own music, and it sounds nothing like that dumbed down Wilco POS. He's apparently a pretty good improviser.
Perhaps why it was never used extensively in the jazz world is because of (1) feedback and (2) whammy bars, which many jazz players don't really dig all that much.
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"Jazzmaster" meant as much as a guitar name as "Jazz Bass" did for the bass. It was a marketing term; the Jazzmaster guitar is practically invisible, not only in jazz, but in popular music generally...proof, in my mind, that adding lotsa chrome and switches to a guitar does not improve it. Otherwise we'd all be playing those Italian made Blender Masters.
The bass did better, eventually surfacing with Jaco in Weather Report and other places, but it is remarkable that Jaco's personal style was very different from most jazz bass players.
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While generally invisible in jazz, it has a following in the rock world, currently and historically.
Currently: Sonic Youth, My Bloody Valentine, the Cure, Elvis Costello i.e., Indie Rock. Not rally my cup of tea, but hey, that's ok.
Historically: surf rock music from California during the 50s and 60s.
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Hey, Bluemood... thats a very good question, and I have been thinking about the same. I guess Fender tried to build something for the jazz crowd, but it was not such a good idea. Anyways, Fender hit the jackpot with other crowds, such as surf and instro bands, as well as todays alternative rockers.. I love the looks and all... For some reason I don´t like the "extra" switch.. looks a littlebit goofy.... But hey, great guitars!
Originally Posted by bluemood
Wikipedia says:
The Fender Jazzmaster is an electric guitar that was first introduced at the 1958 NAMM Show and was designed as a more upmarket instrument than the Fender Stratocaster, which was originally to replace the Telecaster model. As its name indicates, it was initially marketed at jazz guitarists but was more commonly played by surf rock guitarists in the early 1960s and, more recently, by indie rock artists.
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I think the Starcaster is a better model for jazz but I have owned Jazzmasters in the past and liked them not so much for jazz however.
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Roy Lanham, a western swing/ jazz chord melody player, used one for a long time...they're a bit fatter sounding than the typical Fender single coil, so you can coax some different tones out of them.
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The Jazzmaster was Leo Fenders attempt to get Jazz players to play his instruments.
Yes, the name was marketing, but it wasn't just marketing alone, the features of the guitar were designed with jazz players in mind.
It has an offset waist, to make it more easily played in a seated position, as many jazz players do. The jazz bass also has an offset waist and is more comfortable to play seated than a p-bass.
It has two separate tone circuits. Flipping the switch on the upper bout would override the current settings and go to a "lead" setting, so a guitarist could be comping at a low volume, warm tone and step out with a different lead voice at the flip of a switch.
The pickups single coils, but they were wound fatter, wider to give it a warmer jazzier tone.
It had a rosewood fretboard, as all good jazz guitars of the day had rosewood necks, and was the first production fender to have a rosewood fretboard.
No one is really sure why they added the whammy bar.
However, the jazz guitar community wasn't going to give up their archtops, still aren't, though some things are changing over time.
Joe Pass did play one, but I read in an article that a fellow musician gave him an archtop, a real jazz guitar, after watching him play a jazzmaster.
According to the articles I read, they weren't completely surprised at the jazz community's rejection of the guitar but they were surprised at the surf guitarists acceptance of it.
The Jaguar was an offshoot of the Jazzmaster, created for the surf guitarists
I saw in thread here that several of you guys are playing telecasters for jazz, I'm sure Leo would be surprised at that as well.
Have fun!
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Nice Post gpmedium. I think you said it all. I recently saw a jazz quartet playing to a classic silent movie (Metropolis). The guitar player was playing a Jazzmaster and basically stuck to the "surfer tone". It was very very cool.
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The reason that I first made this theard was because my friend mine was talking about buying one on thursday when we had or last practice...On sunday we had another practice and he showed up with it, and ask me if I would set it up for him with d'aario chorm 10's flats ...I put the strings on and set the hight 4/64th at the 17th fret treb and bass side and intonation ...At first we decided to set it up without a thurst rod adjustment it came with fender round wound 10's... I handed the guitar over to him and the first thing he said was that the action felt to high so I lowed the bridge just a hair and the B string went dead the D string at the 15th fret has a dead spot buzz that no matter what I do won't go away ...I did take the neck off and gave a slight tweak put back on set all up to fine out that no matter how high I raised the bridge the strings would not clear the fret board so I had to reverse the process and put it back like it was...If I measure at the 12th fret it's over 5/64th on both sides and the buzzindg on the D string is still there...I told him he should send it back or he's going to have to have a fret job done something ...I think he should have gotten a Tele.
Last edited by bluemood; 06-22-2009 at 04:09 PM.
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This is my first post. I'm old player (playing 55 years), having always favored twin HB semi hollows, Gibsons in particular, altho' I've owned many others. I presently have Gibson ES-339, Hamer Newport Pro Custom and Samick RL-4, all lighter and smaller, and all modded to some degree. They serve as blues guitars as well. I just played and bought my First Fender, a black Classic Players model, with the floating bridge problem solved with an Adjusto-Matic. I was impressed by the tones available on the rhythm circuit, total lack of feedback, fat single coil pups, and smooth, low action. I have always used BF tube amps, presently use a Fender Princeton RI and a Fargen 6L6 Blackbird head, and favor big magnet ALNiCO speakers. While the JM doesn't have the semi hollow warmth, it has a warmth of its own that I was drawn to. I found that the bass tones on the lead circuit were also nice, but different than the rhythm circuit. It has a 9.5 radius as opposed to AVRI JM with 7.5, Med-Jumbo frets, and a flat board. The C shaped neck felt just right. It is a quite a change after all these years, and there are also some wonderful pup options available through Fralin, Duncan, and Novak. Unusual to find a $700 axe that sounds great when I've been spending the equivalent of at least $2,000 and usually $3K plus for years. There was no place new to go except Sadowsky, after Eastman, Ibanez Geo Benson, Heritage, Epiphone and so many Gibsons over the years. So, now you will know about Classic Players model JM. It's a really funky axe, and who knows, if the new CP model was the original, the Jazzers might have signed on.
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Teobeck,
Thanks for that post.
Interesting guitar, to me.
Do you find the toggle switch
gets in your way when strumming?
Thanks again.
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No, as it is on the forward lower side of the guitar, forward of the neck pup, really out of the way, but easily accessible. On most electrics, the toggle is near the tone/volume controls, and one has to look at it to switch. There are a few guitars that have it on the upper bout and less in the way, but harder to switch. The necessity to switch is to change pups to lead or rhythm, or different lead tones. In this case there are separate rhythm/lead circuits with a up/down switch on top, and the rhythm circuit has its own volume and tone roller switches next to the up/down switch, whereas the lead circuit uses the toggle and the regular volume and tone knobs. So, switching from lead to rhythm is using the simple upper bout up/down switch, where there is nothing else in the way, and when choosing the lead circuit, it's toggle and knobs. Since I usually use both pups for lead, I can leave both circuits set, but on the occasion I want to use bridge pup on lead, it's just the toggle I use, so tone knob and volume can stay set. Less time with controls allows more time to concentrate on solo.
Fender now really has 4 series, Strat, Tele, JM/Jag, and the new CP JM/Jags, which have a completely different, warm sound, not brittle, shrill or too bright, and fix all complaints with original JM/Jag series.
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I tried a mexican JM this weekend.. appreciated the TOM bridge.. and could see the adjustable poles being useful. I think the JM pickup makes a great jazz pickup (I have SDs in my CIJ Jazzmaster). All the complaints about jazzmasters (mostly based on the bridge/tailpiece) go away with .012 strings or heavier. I dont have a problem hitting the switch on my JM, but since the hardware is there, IF you did have a problem it would be simple to use the switches/pots in the upper bout. They are VERY hard to knock out of place.
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As much as I like the coolness factor of the Jag and JM, sonically it just doesn't do it for me. It rides somewhere between a tele and strat to me, and I have both.
I have tried to like the JM, but it just isn't for me.
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Derek brings up an important point about japaneses JMs..
All the CIJ/MIJ jazzmasters have basically strat pickups on JM style bobins.
They are very tall and narrow. Real jm pu.s are VERY short and wide. The stock pickups on my CIJ JM did sound very stratish.. I didnt realise how much until I replaced them with SDs
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Had never picked up a jazzmaster before till a couple of months ago, played the classic player one ....boy what a great guitar, i loved the feel and tone of it
I 've played les pauls for years and never really felt comfortable with fender guitars, never found a strat or a tele that quite did it for me and had shied away from jags,mustangs and jazz's.
tried the last 3 finally the first 2 didnt do it but hell i fell in love with the jazz master......need to sell a guitar now!
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it should be noted the classic player jazzmaster feels and sounds nothing like an original jazmaster or a AVRI. they're still kinda cool, though, but the pups are way too hot for my tastes and those big 'ol frets are a deal breaker.
one day, i might spring for an AVRI. they're beautifully made, sound really unique, and are quirky as hell. like me!
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I just wanted to report that my tech solved my JM intonation problem by raising saddles slightly by using some film under the treble bridge side, and now action on JM is still low and buzz free. My sonic observation is that these pups are hotter than a vintage JM, but not Gibson P-90 hot, as JM is 25.5 scale and wood always affects tones. These JM pups have more mids, tighter lows and somewhat less highs than P-90's, OK for Jazz, whereas original JM pups were mellower. I believe there is more clarity with single coil pups than humbuckers. Bottom line is that Classic Player JM is a nice change of pace from semi hollows with HB's, but couldn't be one's sole axe.
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Anyone own one or ever actually play jazz on one?
And yes I've seen the Joe Pass footage. I have that album, actually.
I'm just curious about people's opinions of them here. I've considered adding one to my solid-body collection but I've never even held one since they're hard to find in music stores.
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well i do know that pass used it only because it was the only guitar that the rehab center had and he was not allowed to use any others.
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I owned one in the mid sixties. Bought it from Cousin Benny who operated a pawnshop and always had good deals. Benny took it in pawn from an African-American preacher who couldn't redeem it.
It was a lovely axe, but I could never get it to sound like I wanted. I tried to play blues and rock n roll with it. I played it through a Fender Twin. It woulda been a lovely combo for country or surf, but I wanted to sound like Peter Green! It had a great clean sound, but with little warmth, as I recall.
Mine ended up getting stolen.
Anyway, this was way before I ever even thought of playing jazz. If you can find a store that carries the reissue, try it. You might like it
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I have a Jazzmaster among my guitars. It sits in its case most of the time. I'd say that if you want it because you're collecting, that's your call. If you want it for playing jazz, there are much better choices.
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I am a JM fan. Dont like the noisy single coils.
It is the most physically comfortable guitar I have ever played.
Mine sits in the corner only because of the noise and the fact my tele sounds amazing. They both play great, but I can only play one at time.
Or, to put it another way. I am selling off all my sold bodies except for my ibanez strat (sentimental). My 74 tele, 97 CIJ JM, 59 musicmaster (in case I have a son, it is beat, amazing, and 3/4 size).
I would like to see a list of reasons NOT to use a jazzmaster.
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I think that reasons for not using a guitar are as personal as the reasons for using them. For me I find the neck on the Jazzmaster uncomfortably small and I also don't care for the small 7.25" radius and the small frets.
Add to that the noise factor of the single coils and it doesn't work for me.
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