Gibson Tal Farlow Appreciation Thread

**GNAPPI** · 03-14-2016, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

I think its actually called 'claret' and that was a 96. Tal's look exceptionally classy in that colour for sure.

Mine is a 96 also.

**Al Br.** · 03-14-2016, 11:31 AM

If it was mentioned I apologize for missing it, but how do the new TF's compare to the older models? I got to briefly play on a new one at a local shop and it was wonderful. I thought it sounded better than the 175, sorry no offense to 175 fans intended, and to me it just felt a bit better in the hand. Would love to add one to the collection some day. Have to wait a bit after the last buying flurry and work out a way to convince the other half that the need is real and significant. She's to sharp to try sneaking one in. Dang girl keeps a head count going.

**vinnyv1k** · 03-14-2016, 11:47 AM

I saw a 2014 black one with gold hardware recently at reverb. It was pretty sharp looking. You can get one in any color the Crimson shop offers which is VB, VS, wine, nat, or black. They won't do Memphis colors, I asked.

Dutchbopper · 03-14-2016, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by vinlander

Around 2005-6 some videos on Youtube made by a player under the nickname of jazzerman (later would be known as DutchBopper and MrBebopGuitar) started to show up; I was really impressed by his playing and tone and was following him for a while. There wasn't much videos featuring Tal Farlow guitars being played at the time; still not much nowadays to be honest and his are still by far the best example of a good sounding Tal.

Glad I inspired you to make the TF plunge Vinlander. Over the years I seem to have inspired several guys to buy one. I have received several mails along that line.

I ordered my Tal Farlow from Murch music in 2004 from a picture I saw online. It was a 1998 reissue. I had been a huge Tal Farlow fan for years and I just loved the way it looked. How it really sounded, I had no idea ...

But if Tal played one, they had to be good. The one for sale was exactly in the right finish (viceroy). Somehow I wanted that finish and no other ...

Since then - so for 12 years - I have been playing it to great satisfaction. Every time I pick it up I love it. It's a guitar best suited for bebop IMHO. It simply has that Tal bop thing going on like no other Gibson.

I have been saying for years that a used Tal offers the best value for money in the entire Gibson offering. Way better in that respect than an L5 for instance. You get a lot of guitar for a great price. However I think sub 3K Tals are getting rarer and rarer. Prices are definitely going up fast. Usually 3k plus. Or 4 even.

Regards,

DB

**Max405** · 03-14-2016, 11:59 AM

Al, I cant imagine sneaking a Tal Farlow in. It is too strikingly beautiful to not be obvious.
It is not an acoustic instrument. A 175/165 is more of an acoustic instrument believe it or not. It has a similar unplugged volume and projection as an L5 with inset pickups. Where it differs is in the feel and the amplified tone. It has a very elegant feel to it. The guitar oozes class from what you see to what you touch. It is a substantial guitar that makes you feel like your money is well spent. Its tone is powerful, warm and rich.
Because I have a Tal, I don't feel the need to own an L5. Don't get me wrong, if I could own an L5 you better believe I would have an L5 in my scuderia, but I have a Tal and I am happy.

Joe D.

**vinnyv1k** · 03-14-2016, 12:29 PM

The price new unfortunately like the 175 has risen significantly in the last couple years which is also driving up the used market. Viceroy Brown finish which was the original color is now a $800 up charge. My 2006 was $2800 brand new and my 2014 was $4800. Well considering a new L5 is 10K I guess it is still a good deal ? Still priced equally with a 175.
Well everything musical is very pricey now. A top of the line sax is just as expensive. Can you imagine what a hand carved acoustic bass costs these days ?

**Max405** · 03-14-2016, 02:30 PM

A couple of years ago, I took my bass player Shawn to a music store to pick up a brand new bass that he bought. I was SHOCKED by the quality of bass that cost him only $2000. I cant remember what it was, I think it was a Gamba or something like that. It was amazing and it was HUGE!! It barely fit on my SUV.

**vinnyv1k** · 03-14-2016, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco

A couple of years ago, I took my bass player Shawn to a music store to pick up a brand new bass that he bought. I was SHOCKED by the quality of bass that cost him only $2000. I cant remember what it was, I think it was a Gamba or something like that. It was amazing and it was HUGE!! It barely fit on my SUV.

Bro it was only $2k for a stand up bass ? Man us guitar players are getting ripped.

**MaxTwang** · 03-14-2016, 05:37 PM

You guys have me convinced that my poor playing is more a factor of not having a TF than not having time to practice!

**Bluedawg** · 03-15-2016, 08:31 PM

This Tal Farlow talk is giving me gas ....

And there's a very nice new one within an hour or so drive from me

And I'm sure I can get a good price on it

But I ain't got no money for another guitar at the moment

I'm starting to look at my solid bodies and amps to see which ones can go ... LOL

**Larry M** · 02-04-2017, 05:12 PM

So all the recent talk about Tal’s got me very interested. Read all of the posts, watched the You Tubes, checked out the listings on the usual sites, etc. I had thought about these before, but never really considered them as a possible addition to/substitutionfor my L-5 Wes or 175. I probably would have done nothing, but then…

One showed upon Craigslist about an hour from me. A pretty rare opportunity, so I had to gocheck it out.

It is a 1998 blonde. Some fret wear, finish checking, a few dings, badly tarnished tuners,binding cracks at every fret end, and a general “funkiness” from not having been played much recently. The owner used this in his university music studies.The case is also really beat up (doing its job). However, the neck was straightand the action was terrific.

I really liked the feel of this guitar, and the unplugged tone was great. The dimensions and the familiar L-5 neck worked really well. I brought along my small Jazz Kat, but the acoustics were crummy and I didn’t have much time, so the electrified tone wasn’t what I believe it can be. I think the guy is on the high side price-wise ($3,600), but I think he’d come down a bit in spite of being “firm”, especially as I went over some of the issues I was seeing.

Going to have to offload something to be able to get one, and I’m not sure this is the one. But I really appreciate all of your insights and comments about this model, guys. So much spot on analysis. Thank you.

**wintermoon** · 02-04-2017, 07:17 PM

don't pay more than 3K for one w/those issues.

**vinnyv1k** · 02-04-2017, 07:33 PM

For $900 more you can get a brand new one.

**2bornot2bop** · 02-04-2017, 09:22 PM

Good 4 U Larry, for taking the opportunity to check out a local TF.

I had a similar experience of examining my first TF via a local listing. The owner and I each drove 50 miles to meet each other in the middle of a Burger King parking lot. But having owned L5's I could sense the neck and build quality were so similar I was impressed with the guitar to buy it without being able to sample it.

That seller is dreaming to get that price. There are so many nice TF's available for much less. If you're not opposed to buying on the web, and being patient, you'll easily find a TF in fabulous condition for $3200, or less. A sunburst '05 ? model TF sold to a forum member a few months back for $2800. Good luck in your search!

**agentsmith** · 02-04-2017, 10:18 PM

for the price of a Tal you can get a barney kessel. Blows the tal away in almost every respect. Talk to Dutchbopper who has a Tal and a Kessel. I owned both and there's no comparison. But , I know folks on this forum like shiny-new instruments...

**2bornot2bop** · 02-04-2017, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by agentsmith

for the price of a Tal you can get a barney kessel. Blows the tal away in almost every respect. Talk to Dutchbopper who has a Tal and a Kessel. I owned both and there's no comparison. But , I know folks on this forum like shiny-new instruments...

I can't speak for everyone, but perhaps there are others like myself who are risk averse to buying vintage archtops.

Buying vintage requires far more skill and knowledge. And how many Kessel's, as opposed to TF's, are there available to purchase?

Not only that, but how many Kessel's does one have to purchase until they find the one that's "acceptable?" Didn't you go through several before finding a guitar that suited you?

I applaud those with your skill set, but buying used guitars is challenging enough...I've bought my share of used archtops, and still haven't taken that vintage plunge.

**Cunamara** · 02-04-2017, 11:19 PM

I can't deal with the Kessel's double cutaways, unfortunately, but the one I heard in person sounded absolutely fabulous. And agent smith's and Dutchbopper's videos are great demonstrations. If one can deal with the aesthetics, the BKs are a serious contender.

As for "blows away the Tal," though, that depends on what you are looking for.

**2bornot2bop** · 02-04-2017, 11:29 PM

Agreed. As for the Kessel's aesthetics, ironically that's what kept me from purchasing a TF for so long!

**GNAPPI** · 02-05-2017, 01:21 AM

I don't suggest to the OP he buy the Tal he saw, quite the contrary if the git as described was less than ideal for him:

"It is a 1998 blonde. Some fret wear, finish checking, a few dings, badly tarnished tuners,binding cracks at every fret end, and a general “funkiness” from not having been played much recently. The owner used this in his university music studies.The case is also really beat up (doing its job). However, the neck was straightand the action was terrific.

I really liked the feel of this guitar, and the unplugged tone was great. The dimensions and the familiar L-5 neck worked really well. I brought along my small Jazz Kat, but the acoustics were crummy and I didn’t have much time, so the electrified tone wasn’t what I believe it can be. I think the guy is on the high side price-wise ($3,600), but I think he’d come down a bit in spite of being “firm”, especially as I went over some of the issues I was seeing".

Was not meant to go home with him.

THE single biggest mistake I made on not buying a git was a ratty blonde ES-175 with shoddy case at a silly high price. It was THE 175 I dreamed of and I still kick myself for not buying it. To make matters worse, I had several 175's in my hands that day in the same store proving to me that the ratty one was a keeper.

I can fix or mitigate ugly... I can make more money... but you can't make a dog hunt that will not hunt.

So, "I" NEVER EVER say, "A new one can be had for X dollars more, or a ANIB used for Y dollars less" IF, it played and sounded great.

The mystifying thing about the OP's (Larry) comment is the sound, I have yet to play my Tal in an amp that didn't reach into the wiring and pull pleasant sound from it I never heard before.

**agentsmith** · 02-05-2017, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

I can't deal with the Kessel's double cutaways, unfortunately, but the one I heard in person sounded absolutely fabulous. And agent smith's and Dutchbopper's videos are great demonstrations. If one can deal with the aesthetics, the BKs are a serious contender.

As for "blows away the Tal," though, that depends on what you are looking for.

If one is looking for great/ultimate archtop tone, I think one would prefer the kessel to the tal. I have owned a maple and spruce kessel, both with mahogany necks but the ones with the 5pc maple necks sound even better IMO.

I think part of it is just that the old wood sounds so much better but the other factor is that the tal is very heavily built like a late '80s 175. I loved my '89 175 though. The Tal sounded similar but with the brighter attack you'd expect of the maple neck and longer scale. It didn't quite have the old guitar vibe though.

**vinlander** · 02-05-2017, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by agentsmith

If one is looking for great/ultimate archtop tone, I think one would prefer the kessel to the tal. I have owned a maple and spruce kessel, both with mahogany necks but the ones with the 5pc maple necks sound even better IMO.

I think part of it is just that the old wood sounds so much better but the other factor is that the tal is very heavily built like a late '80s 175. I loved my '89 175 though. The Tal sounded similar but with the brighter attack you'd expect of the maple neck and longer scale. It didn't quite have the old guitar vibe though.

It is more than just a concern about prefering shinny new thing over vintage checkered instruments.
For 3K it might prove difficult for most of us to find more than just a Kessel shell that would need a refret, planning...not talking about risk taking regarding sunken top and so on. Even more worst when you are buying internationally...Our sucking dollar doesn't help neither.
You offered your 2 BKs at such a fair price, I am still shocked they were not selling faster for such fabulous instruments particularly your spruce top one, knowing how critic you are. Don't know if you still have your Spruce top one, but it is a hell of instrument and not the typical in playing state instrument from the '60s someone can find easily for that price. Had I not already a fabulous even if imperfect instrument, I would have snagged that spruce top Kessel in a heartbeat...
I won't lie I adore my Tal but I know it doesn't have that vintage vibe, it is clearly a modern instrument with its stiffer construction, but for the fair price I paid for it, despite its little imperfection I could not be happier

**agentsmith** · 02-05-2017, 10:43 AM

building upon your posting, I think most people are impatient. They want to just order their guitar with lifetime warranty and be happy with it. They don't have the patience to order an instrument, have work done on it and bring it back to playing condition if necessary. I did that on both my kessels (one a '63 , the other a '66) and they both worked out beautifully. I did that on my '72 Guild X-500 too. I lucked out on my '89 175 because someone had already planed and refretted it.

To me, it's worth the trouble. The difference in tone and vibe between a new instrument and a 40-50 year old instrument is well worth it but I think most people don't care.

**GNAPPI** · 02-05-2017, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by agentsmith

building upon your posting, I think most people are impatient. They want to just order their guitar with lifetime warranty and be happy with it. They don't have the patience to order an instrument, have work done on it and bring it back to playing condition if necessary. I did that on both my kessels (one a '63 , the other a '66) and they both worked out beautifully. I did that on my '72 Guild X-500 too. I lucked out on my '89 175 because someone had already planed and refretted it.

To me, it's worth the trouble. The difference in tone and vibe between a new instrument and a 40-50 year old instrument is well worth it but I think most people don't care.

You are absolutely right, I admit to being one of those, with reasons.

I have no problem with condition issues at all, gits are tools and if used get issues from handling. No problem. Some see a freaking scratch and walk or ask for a huge discount. F'k that, those people need to buy new and not dream of mint condition and low prices.

But some of us like myself are in the doldrums of qualified luthiers, with a plethora of "guitar techs" that were likely taking orders at "Whopping Burger" before being downsized by a voice recognition state machine in their last career :-)

That said, the potential of severe problems for players like me is a large concern. A broken truss rod, warped neck needing planing and or a re-set, or a caved in top are not so much a matter of patience more a potential "boat in the water you throw money in" made worse by long distance shipping to unknown persons at a leap of faith cost.

Regarding vibe, my second most loved instrument is a nearly 50 year old 1968 ES-150, it not only has the vibe (and a very few condition issues), it smells like my Grandmother's house which bring me good memories.

We agree with the "vibe" thing for sure, but people who expect visual perfection should stick to brand new.

**vinnyv1k** · 02-05-2017, 01:31 PM

I love both old and new Archtops. I had my Guild AA and my D'Aquisto for over 30 years. My problem is where I live. No Archtop land. The risk of buying used sight unseen is of too much risk to me.
Buying new has just as much risk as far as a good working instrument. I have bought countless new Gibson's with bad necks or trussrods that don't work.
The difference being if new their is no risk getting your money back from a reputable dealer.
Ebay and Reverb is not a option for me. I don't like the risk factor. Jack has had his share of headaches with both of these online sellers. In the end he always seems to overcome bad buys but not without some stress involved.
I don't gamble. My luck is horrible.
A new guitar will take a few years to open up I will admit. I am retired from buying finally and glad to have that stress behind me. Buying a new guitar is joyful and terrifying at the same time. Believe me when UPS drops off your new guitar your heart is pounding with excitement and fear.

**Max405** · 02-05-2017, 02:04 PM

I think I need to play a Barney one day. I've never even seen one in person.
one of the great things here is the immense experience that our members have. And from every perspective too.
Ill admit I like shiney and new, but my cheap ass likes "shiney, looks new, sounds good and heavily discounted" even better.
Based on Agent Smith's recommendation, I'd really like to try a spruce Barney.
To the OP, Larry, you did good by trying out a Tal. I agree with the brain trust here. $3600 for a Tal with issues is ridiculous.
$3,000 for a nice Viceroy Brown would be all the Jazz Guitar one could ever want. The neck in Tals were made for god.

Joe D