archtop.com

**Archie** · 01-08-2016, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

I would not hesitate to buy again from archtop.com, but I would be very explicit with my questions and would not assume anything based on the write ups.

However well-intentioned Joe is, the ad copy utilizes too much boilerplate content and somewhat irrelevant general historical information for me. I don't need to know that a Gibson L-5CES began life in 1922 as a fully acoustic instrument. Just tell me more about the specific guitar being sold, please. Don't bury those details in so much generic and flowery copy.

I would be extremely hesitant to buy from Archtop.com, or anyone else for that matter who has problems with representing a guitar accurately (of course the inaccuracy always allows them to ask more money, funny that). I think thats the bar, the minim I require from a seller of anything.

There is more than enough first hand evidence here to suggest the seller is not only unreliable (putting it middy) but is also not very nice to other people working in the industry.

**GNAPPI** · 01-08-2016, 05:29 AM

I'm glad this thread showed up. Don't dealers have a "consignment agreement" that sellers have to sign? For crying out loud, my ex used to consign clothes and included were specifics of the item as received, price of the sale, store modifications permitted if any, cleaning, price changes after 30/60/90 days, pickup of unsold property, and disposal of the abandoned clothing. So I would "imagine" that a guitar consignment agreement would specify what the responsibilities of BOTH parties are? If no such agreement is extant up front I wouldn't do business with a dealer. An "Agreement" in writing would be a great vehicle for getting any unapproved fees refunded, by a lawsuit if needed.

Anyway, I have an ES-150 with those cheesy amp knobs, and I like them, they are correct, and any future owner that doesn't like them can change them. I'm thankful that the dealer who sold it to me did not take it on themselves to change them.

Anyone who changes original appointments on a guitar IMO should:

A. Save the parts removed from the guitar
B. Supply the removed parts to the new/next owner
C. Be able to put the guitar back the way it was without having any noticeable marks left behind of the mods.

dortmundjazzguitar · 01-08-2016, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

I would be extremely hesitant to buy from Archtop.com, or anyone else for that matter who has problems with representing a guitar accurately (of course the inaccuracy always allows them to ask more money, funny that). I think thats the bar, the minim I require from a seller of anything.

There is more than enough first hand evidence here to suggest the seller is not only unreliable (putting it middy) but is also not very nice to other people working in the industry.

while archtops did not really make a good case for himself, i'm not to sure whether a direct competitor should make such comments, how founded they may be?

Selling Your Guitar? ? Archtop Heaven

(unless this is a different guy, in which case i apologize)

**GNAPPI** · 01-08-2016, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar

while archtops did not really make a good case for himself, i'm not to sure whether a direct competitor should make such comments, how founded they may be?

Selling Your Guitar? ? Archtop Heaven

(unless this is a different guy, in which case i apologize)

Th OP wrote archtop dot com

dortmundjazzguitar · 01-08-2016, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

Th OP wrote archtop dot com

you misunderstood me. if you call someone's business unreliable, imo you should at all times disclose if you work or intend to work in the same branch. probably even the law in most countries?

**GNAPPI** · 01-08-2016, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar

you misunderstood me

"Selling Your Guitar? ? Archtop Heaven

(unless this is a different guy, in which case i apologize)"

I guess I did.

**bosevelt** · 01-08-2016, 02:21 PM

I've had a mixed to poor experience. On the positive side, the selection is usually awesome, prices are generally very fair, and I was allowed to play anything in the shop. I did make a purchase, but returned it. Got dinged a 3% restocking fee on a guitar I returned in less than 24 hours for CC fees, which really upset me. I wasn't informed that the guitar pickups were not original until after the sale, which may or may not have been noted online, and could have been my fault for not asking, but I think it should have been noted at point of sale. I bought in person, however, I would agree with;

I would be very explicit with my questions and would not assume anything based on the write ups.

However well-intentioned Joe is, the ad copy utilizes too much boilerplate content and somewhat irrelevant general historical information for me. I don't need to know that a Gibson L-5CES began life in 1922 as a fully acoustic instrument. Just tell me more about the specific guitar being sold, please. Don't bury those details in so much generic and flowery copy.

**AlohaJoe** · 01-08-2016, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar

while archtops did not really make a good case for himself, i'm not to sure whether a direct competitor should make such comments, how founded they may be?

A good point... not to minimize legitimate complaints, but more than one of the commenters piling on in this thread are also full or part-time dealers in the same business.

**skykomishone** · 01-08-2016, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

I would be extremely hesitant to buy from Archtop.com, or anyone else for that matter who has problems with representing a guitar accurately (of course the inaccuracy always allows them to ask more money, funny that). I think thats the bar, the minim I require from a seller of anything.

There is more than enough first hand evidence here to suggest the seller is not only unreliable (putting it middy) but is also not very nice to other people working in the industry.

Now that's some serious bullshit, coming from someone in the business of buying and selling guitars. Wow. I think it's time for the moderator to moderate.

**GNAPPI** · 01-08-2016, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by skykomishone

Now that's some serious bullshit, coming from someone in the business of buying and selling guitars. Wow. I think it's time for the moderator to moderate.

What part of:

"I would be extremely hesitant to buy from Archtop.com, or anyone else for that matter who has problems with representing a guitar accurately (of course the inaccuracy always allows them to ask more money, funny that). I think thats the bar, the minim I require from a seller of anything."

"There is more than enough first hand evidence here to suggest the seller is not only unreliable (putting it middy) but is also not very nice to other people working in the industry."

Was BS?

I read "EXTREMELY Hesitant" "or anyone else" "from a seller of anything" and "SUGGEST" as echoing my (and probably many others) feelings coming away from this thread.

**kenbennett** · 01-08-2016, 10:36 PM

What does "niggling" mean?

**Jabberwocky** · 01-08-2016, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by kenbennett

What does "niggling" mean?

A niggardly answer: It is onomatopoeic.

Do you see any chinks in the armour? I don't.

archtop.com-terracotta-warriors-png

**Groyniad** · 01-09-2016, 07:57 AM

'just love the camaraderie in this community' says a fellow-poster on this thread

and it is a great thing. the point is we all of us really do love the instruments - and that gives a non-commercial, non self-interested basis to the group - its the sort of thing that can make a group into a community.

i get a whole lot from this forum for example.

and that's why this thread topic is so important and painful.

i got totally screwed by laughably dishonest description, and an extraordinarily cynical refusal to admit fault after the true condition of the instrument was revealed - and i've never been totally screwed in any other commercial context. cost me nearly 1k in fees and postage. would not buy from here if it was the only place on earth i could get an archtop guitar.

and i have no interest whatever - do not work in that market and never intend to

my interest is just in the horrid clash between this sort of practice and the spirit of generosity and enthusiasm that holds the archtop nut community together.

**AlohaJoe** · 01-09-2016, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

What part of: "I would be extremely hesitant to buy from Archtop.com... the seller is not only unreliable (putting it middy) but is also not very nice to other people working in the industry." Was BS?

All of it. For a guitar dealer to bash a competing guitar dealer when they have no personal experience to back it up with with is disingenuous at best, whether true or not.

I've read some very compelling stories in this thread, and if you have an issue with this dealer let's hear it. But if you don't, it's hearsay. If you don't and you are a competing dealer you bring your own ethics into question.

**2bornot2bop** · 01-09-2016, 08:58 PM

Archtop "heaven" is "competition" for Archtop dot com? Now that's funny!

**vinnyv1k** · 01-09-2016, 09:04 PM

archtop.com is global.

**GNAPPI** · 01-10-2016, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by AlohaJoe

All of it.

Well you didn't read what I quoted so it's pointless to discuss it with you. Needless to say there's a lesson for all dealers to learn from this thread.

**AlohaJoe** · 01-10-2016, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

Well you didn't read what I quoted so it's pointless to discuss it with you. Needless to say there's a lesson for all dealers to learn from this thread.

I certainly agree with your second statement, and there are lessons here for buyers too. I've never bought or sold with archtop.com but he is a big enough dealer to be competition for anybody who sells archtops, large or small.

**HeyNow** · 01-10-2016, 03:38 AM

I don't think ArchtopHeaven ever made it a secret he sells. But I think he's also remarking as a guy who bought from Archtop.com and got a guitar not as described.

**AlohaJoe** · 01-10-2016, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by HeyNow

he's also remarking as a guy who bought from Archtop.com and got a guitar not as described.

Yes, he did... I stand corrected in his case.

**tusculum** · 01-11-2016, 05:42 AM

I had a great experience with Archtops.Com. Purchased a Super 400 that was accurately described and Joe gave a very helpful Skype demonstration. Shipping to Australia was quick and careful. Pricing was good and better than some other dealers. Buyers need to make inquiries and sellers need to be realistic and fair minded about their consignments. I get concerned when the guitar community forgets we need dealers to make the market place work for us. You will know how much you need them when they are gone, as happened when the main vintage shop in Australia closed 3 years ago. But it's our job to keep the middleman honest but let's be fair about it.

**feet** · 01-11-2016, 10:03 AM

i don't have much of an opinion. i think the pricing is a little optimistic, the copy sort of useless, but i guess what bugs me most is the late 90s esque website. the photos aren't great, the layout for the guitar pages sucks, the site isn't super useful to use and i wish sold prices were displayed.

that's just me, though.

**rpguitar** · 01-11-2016, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by feet

i don't have much of an opinion. i think the pricing is a little optimistic, the copy sort of useless, but i guess what bugs me most is the late 90s esque website. the photos aren't great, the layout for the guitar pages sucks, the site isn't super useful to use and i wish sold prices were displayed.

It isn't great, but it sure beats Lark Street's site. Or even Gruhn's. Both of those have very little useful detail on their listings. Mandolin Bros. was exemplary in that regard; a unique and detailed write-up was always provided.

Regarding photos; I will say that archtop's are strategically cropped and illuminated to accen-tu-ate the positive. "Only the most incidental pickwear" actually means lots of nicks and dings, but you can never see it in the published photos.

At the end of the day, you have to ask lots of questions if you are a discerning buyer doing online business with any of these dealers.

**Max405** · 01-11-2016, 02:32 PM

I think a while ago before he was disrespected off this site once again, Jack Zucker came up with a list of great questions that would help us gather details on a potential purchase. I have to find that and re-post it.
JD

**HeyNow** · 01-11-2016, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

It isn't great, but it sure beats Lark Street's site. Or even Gruhn's. Both of those have very little useful detail on their listings. Mandolin Bros. was exemplary in that regard; a unique and detailed write-up was always provided.

Regarding photos; I will say that archtop's are strategically cropped and illuminated to accen-tu-ate the positive. "Only the most incidental pickwear" actually means lots of nicks and dings, but you can never see it in the published photos.

At the end of the day, you have to ask lots of questions if you are a discerning buyer doing online business with any of these dealers.

Lark St usually has huge pics, in my experience