Hofner 463 Info?

[cgratham]

Anyone (paging Hammertone) have inside knowledge of this Hofner 463 model from the mid 50's? I find it oddly appealing. Love the rope binding.

I know the dimensions already. Wondering if these were solid or laminate tops? What kind of pups are those? Any idea of the ballpark it would be worth?



Thanks, Chris

[Keira Witherkay]

i've owned 3 vintage 50's/60's hofners ... they great players but NOT great collector value ... mine were all in the region of $500 value wise

the maple one was a 50's Hofner 456 with no trussrod and a fat neck but all original and the better tone

the other (1st pic) ....i forget the model number but ir was refurnished and i didn't quite bond with it and i had a thinline 335 type one too (which in hindsight i should have kept)




they great guitars if you can get em cheap.... and there seems to be quite a few floating around ....and i bet they will go up in value as time passes, but presently they great players .... and give you a true old 50's vibe and old tone for very cheap money ......not quite an old Gibson but being German made the quality is very good..... would definitely gig them at pro gigs ........

as for specs i can't help much but enjoy them as vintage instruments and play it

[cgratham]

Hi Keira,
Thanks for that info. Definitely useful.

Cheers, Chris

[Keira Witherkay]

Hi Keira,
Thanks for that info. Definitely useful.

Cheers, Chris

afraid not much info ...i'm more of a player than a gear junkie .....so not sure of specs ..but more just an endorsement that they make great instruments with a true vintage vibe and feel ...enjoy

[GNAPPI]

I'll say up front that I have no personal ownership experience with them but, like you always found them "oddly appealing" also, and I follow them and sales on the web.

They were the Studebaker (my all time fave car designer / makers and the first car I was ever in) of guitar designers. Their designs were avant garde compared to other makers for sure, the one exception was the Verithin / Verythin (old model / new model) which I always liked. I always have had a problem with their open slide switches, and horrible markers, they would have done better without them.

As far as collectability goes there are always a bunch on the web with "optimistic" asking prices, whether or not they actually sell is another thing. Surprisingly, there are a bunch of them in nice condition on the web, that says a lot about their long term stability. I saw that one you referred to on EBAY, it didn't sell.

Funny, I've seen a lot of (IMO) inferior guitars from the 50's like Silvertone, and Kay getting more collector / nostalgic attention than the Hofners but I'll bet they sell well in Germany.

[oldane]

They came with a plywood maple top (say 456) or a spruce top (say 457). The 1950s models had non adjustable truss rods/reinforcement, while models from around (I think) 1959-1960 had adjustable truss rods. They also came in various cosmetic trims and some were quite fancy - in a European way. I had a 456 with two of those black single coil PUs back and a non adjustable truss rod in the late 1960s. It was a good utility guitar, but back then, they were considered economy instruments which were not rated as highly as the American instrumensts. The typical for a players back then was to get a Höfner to get started in a band and then sell it when they had saved enough for a Gibson, Gretsch, Fender or Guild. I bought mine, including a cardboard case, in 1967 a second hand shop for what amounts to $40. I didn't sell mine but loaned it to a friend who still has it in his possession after 35 years. Considering how many Gretsches from the 1960s has litarally fallen apart, in hindsight, I'd say that from a structural point of view those old Höfners were a good deal better. Some Höfners from that time has needed/need a neck reset, but usually they are in one piece.

Check this website: Visitors' Gallery - European & US Archtops

One of the more fancy Höfners in blonde finish, clear pickguard, fancier fretboard markers and elaborate headstock can be seen in this clip with late 1950s UK rock/pop singer Tommy Steele performing his big hit "Handful of songs":

[neatomic]

as per the hofner guitar- a history book--those plastic plain top pups were used from 57-60...

kw-love both of those hofners pictured..great

i have a recent ct club and even that has an uncannily vintage feel..the neck contour feels exactly like a guitar from the 50's...something most repro type guitars ie epiphone, gretsch usually do not!


cheers

[cgratham]

Hi all,
Dane, that vintagehofner.co.uk site has lots of pic's - man they made some unique looking models. And I'd never heard of Tommy Steele before. Thanks Garry and neatomic for that info.


Chris

[Hammertone]

I, too, like the multi-coloured purfling annd the mahogany back/rims of the Model 463.

Höfner made some cheap archtops before the war, when they were in Schönbach.
After the war, almost of the German-speaking luthiers in Czechoslovakia were deported to Möhrendorf before they moved to and set up production facilities in nearby Bubenreuth, Tennelohe and other adjacent communities (mostly under the leadership of the Höfner, Wilfer and Hoyer families).

By '53 Höfner was making a range of 16" archtops, of which the 463 was one, and by the late 1950s that range of 16" archtops included the 450/455/456/457/458/459/461/462/463/464/465. They also had a few 17" models as well as models made specifically for Selmer in the UK, but that's another story. The 463 appears in the 1937 as well as the 1947 and subsequent catalogues.

Höfner made a lot of 463 models - with and without cutaways, and with one, two or three pickups. Hardware and pickups evolved - as mentioned, the black bar pickups were used in 1957, 1958 and 1959. These are hit and miss pickups - sometimes they sound great, sometimes they suck. Earlier pickups supplied by FUMA in Berlin are vastly superior, and later pickups supplied locally by Franz Pix are also superior.

All of these archtops always had laminated back plates. There were specific cosmetic differences between these instruments but they are all essentially similar.

Of these, the early versions of specific models usually had carved spruce tops, including the 457/458/461/462/463/464/465. By the late 1950s, Höfner was phasing out carved tops in favour of laminated tops, so later instruments rarely have carved tops. Later versions also tend to have significantly less recarve to them. Neck shapes also evolved until they became relatively standardized in @1960, when adjustable trussrods were introduced. Some of the 1950s necks feel great, some of them less so. I think Hofner's 1960s necks are great.

Simply put, it means that each guitar needs to be assessed on it own merits. An older 463 with a carved top and a nice-playing neck can be a lovely archtop, essentially like an old Gibson L-4 but with a longer scale. If the top is cut for controls, it's easy enough to see if it is solid or laminated. There's no shortage of 463 models, if that particular cosmetic package appeals to you - they come up for sale on a regular basis on local lists, ebay and reverb.

As far as value goes, they are all over the map. In decent, original, playable condition, they go anywhere from $600 to $1,800 [ed: five years later, prices are up. I'd say a reasonable range is more like $1,000 - $2,500, and, of course, there are always outliers]. There are no standardized values for German archtops - it's still the wild, wild west when it comes to pricing. Blue books are wrong, misleading or simply useless when it comes to most of these instruments - sample sizes are too small to be meaningful, and their editors are both ignorant and indifferent regarding most of these guitars.

[cgratham]

Thanks Hammertone,
That's amazing. You are truly the font of all info Hofner. Very useful info.

Cheers, Chris

I also like the multi-coloured purfling annd the mahogany back/rims of the Model 463.

Höfner made some cheap archtops before the war, when they were in Schönbach.
After the war, almost of the German-speaking luthiers in Czechoslovakia were deported to Möhrendorf before they moved to and set up production facilities nearby in Bubenreuth, Tennelohe and other adjacent communities (mostly under the leadership of the Höfner and Wilfer families).

By '53 Höfner was making a range of 16" archtops, of which the 463 was one, and by the late 1950s that range of 16" archtops included the 450/455/456/457/458/459/461/462/463/464/465. They also had a few 17" models as well as models made specifically for Selmer in the UK, but that's another story. the 463 appears in the 1937 as well as the 1947 and subsequent catalogues.

Hofner made a lot of 463 models - with and without cutaways, with one, two or three pickups. Hardware and pickups evolved - as mentioned, the black bar pickups were used in 1957, 1958 and 1959. They are hit and miss pickups - sometimes they sound great, sometimes they suck. Earlier pickps supplied by FUMA in Berlin are vastly superior, and later pickups supplied locally by Franz Pix are also superior.

All of these archtops always had laminated back plates. There were specific cosmetic differences between these instruments but they are all essentially similar.

Of these, the early versions of specific models usually had carved spruce tops, including the 457/458/461/462/463/464/465. By the late 1950s, Höfner was phasing out carved tops in favour of laminated tops, so later instruments rarely have carved tops. Later versions also tend to have significantly less recarve to them. Neck shapes also evolved until they became relatively standardized in @1960, when adjstable trussrods were introduced. Some of the 1950s necks feel great, some of them less so.

Simply put, it means each guitar needs to be assessed on it own merits. An older 463 with a carved top and a nice-playing neck can be a lovely archtop, essentially like an old Gibson L-4 but with a longer scale. If the top is cut for controls, it's easy enough to see if it is solid or laminated.

As far as value goes, they are all over the map. in decent, original playing condition, they go anywhere from $600 to $1,800. There are no standardized values for German archtops - it's still the wild, wild west when it comes to pricing. Blue books are wrong, misleading or simply useless when it comes to most of these instruments - sample sizes are too small to be meaningful, and their editors are both ignorant and indifferent regarding most of these guitars.

[Hammertone]

Feel free to get in touch with me about any of these Höfners if you see one that appeals to you - I can at least point out some specific features, if it has been modified, and so forth.

Steve Russell's Höfner site (which I helped him set up) is a useful resource
- Hofner Guitar Miscellany Home Page

Hofner has a vintage section on its web site
- Hofner Image Galleries
- Hofner Vintage Showroom
- Service

Norbert Schnepel's on-line store is useful as well. Norbet has forgotten more about this than most folks will ever know
- Musikkeller || Deutsche Vintage Gitarren

There's more out there as well - a few decent books and corners of various web sites.

[neatomic]

hammertone, what's keira w's first pic guitar?? (the gretsch orangey one)..that looks to be as hip a looking guitar as ever

any info appreciated

cheers

[Hammertone]

hammertone, what's keira w's first pic guitar?? (the gretsch orangey one)..that looks to be as hip a looking guitar as ever. any info appreciated. cheers

If the top shows spruce grain, it's a Model 457/S/E1 from the early 1960s, with various changes made to it. These are great pro-level guitars.

[travisty]

I, too, like the multi-coloured purfling annd the mahogany back/rims of the Model 463.

Höfner made some cheap archtops before the war, when they were in Schönbach.
After the war, almost of the German-speaking luthiers in Czechoslovakia were deported to Möhrendorf before they moved to and set up production facilities nearby in Bubenreuth, Tennelohe and other adjacent communities (mostly under the leadership of the Höfner and Wilfer families).

By '53 Höfner was making a range of 16" archtops, of which the 463 was one, and by the late 1950s that range of 16" archtops included the 450/455/456/457/458/459/461/462/463/464/465. They also had a few 17" models as well as models made specifically for Selmer in the UK, but that's another story. the 463 appears in the 1937 as well as the 1947 and subsequent catalogues.

Höfner made a lot of 463 models - with and without cutaways, with one, two or three pickups. Hardware and pickups evolved - as mentioned, the black bar pickups were used in 1957, 1958 and 1959. They are hit and miss pickups - sometimes they sound great, sometimes they suck. Earlier pickps supplied by FUMA in Berlin are vastly superior, and later pickups supplied locally by Franz Pix are also superior.

All of these archtops always had laminated back plates. There were specific cosmetic differences between these instruments but they are all essentially similar.

Of these, the early versions of specific models usually had carved spruce tops, including the 457/458/461/462/463/464/465. By the late 1950s, Höfner was phasing out carved tops in favour of laminated tops, so later instruments rarely have carved tops. Later versions also tend to have significantly less recarve to them. Neck shapes also evolved until they became relatively standardized in @1960, when adjstable trussrods were introduced. Some of the 1950s necks feel great, some of them less so.

Simply put, it means each guitar needs to be assessed on it own merits. An older 463 with a carved top and a nice-playing neck can be a lovely archtop, essentially like an old Gibson L-4 but with a longer scale. If the top is cut for controls, it's easy enough to see if it is solid or laminated. There's no shortage of 463 modesl if that particular cosmetic package appeals to you - they come up for sale on a regular basis on local lists, ebay and reverb.

As far as value goes, they are all over the map. In decent, original, playable condition, they go anywhere from $600 to $1,800. There are no standardized values for German archtops - it's still the wild, wild west when it comes to pricing. Blue books are wrong, misleading or simply useless when it comes to most of these instruments - sample sizes are too small to be meaningful, and their editors are both ignorant and indifferent regarding most of these guitars.

Hammertone,
Just writing this because I'd love to give your post more than one "Like" but the system doesn't let me. So here are more.

[neatomic]

absolutely!..a treasure of obscure but beloved info..

classic hofner lore!

much appreciated..

cheers