Fender 68 Princeton Reissue versus Fender George Benson

[Rob MacKillop]

Both these amps are exactly the same price in the UK, and I'm wondering which would be better for my D'Aquisto NYE with Bartolini 5J. I just play at home most of the time, so big volume is not needed. I like the clean Fender sound, especially when fat and warm.
The 68 is physically smaller, so is a front runner, as space is at a premium in our apartment.
I would try them both out, but only the 68 is in stock in Edinburgh.

Benson: Fender George Benson Hotrod Deluxe

68: Fender 68 Custom Princeton Reverb Amp

Rob

[boatheelmusic]

How about the regular Hot Rod Deluxe with a minor tube and maybe speaker swap?

Same amp, less $ and can be found preowned

So here's what I did with my HRD:

-replaced stock speaker with Eminence Cannabis Rex
-installed a 5751 in V1, a 12dw7 in V2, and a 4024 (12at7) in V3
-installed JJ 6l6gc output tubes, biased to 65mv

-bass on 3
-treble on 1
-mid on 5
-presence on 1
-reverb on 2 1/2

with my ES 175's volume and tone on 7 1/2, these changes transform the amp and give me plenty of usable clean headroom with oodles of classic jazz tone.

with just the 12at7 in v1, not nearly as nice.....

Benson owners should try that tube in the v3 position instead of v1- just swap it with the 12ax7.

[Rob MacKillop]

Oh, I'm not the sort who goes to that trouble. I'm a plug and play kind of guy. Thanks anyway.

[skiboyny]

Does that amp use 6v6 originally? If so,how hot does the power transformer get with the 6L6?

How about the regular Hot Rod Deluxe with a minor tube and maybe speaker swap?

Same amp, less $ and can be found preowned

So here's what I did with my HRD:

-replaced stock speaker with Eminence Cannabis Rex
-installed a 5751 in V1, a 12dw7 in V2, and a 4024 (12at7) in V3
-installed JJ 6l6gc output tubes, biased to 65mv

-bass on 3
-treble on 1
-mid on 5
-presence on 1
-reverb on 2 1/2

with my ES 175's volume and tone on 7 1/2, these changes transform the amp and give me plenty of usable clean headroom with oodles of classic jazz tone.

with just the 12at7 in v1, not nearly as nice.....

Benson owners should try that tube in the v3 position instead of v1- just swap it with the 12ax7.

[superdave]

Rob I have owned both and being a stay at home player myself I think the Hot Rod Deluxe is overkill plus weighing 9lbs. more than the Princeton. I was never able to turn the Hot Rod Deluxe up high enough to drive the speaker at home. If your ok with just one channel the Princeton is a nice amp.

[Rob MacKillop]

Super, Dave

One channel is fine. I can always add a pedal if I need some grit at low levels. But mainly I'm looking for clean, warm, tubey.

[jorgemg1984]

A studendt of mine had the 68 and I really liked it, much more than the 65 Princeton. I never tried the Benson HRD but I found the 68 much better than the regular HRD.

[christianm77]

Hi rob. I would say get a used fender Princeton 65 reissue if you can find one or save up the extra £200 or so to get the 65. The 68 is designed to give break up quite early. Testing it against the 65 in the shop it got dirty a lot quicker. Some guitar players want this of course, but prob not the best for jazz.

As most jazzers find the 65 a little eager to break up with the stock speaker when playing with drums, a common mod is to use a more efficient speaker. I used a eminence lil bud as recommended by a friend who has this set up. I loved his amp (which is vintage) and tried it with the reissue. The result IMO is near as damn it the perfect portable valve jazz amp.

It's possible that modding the 68 might give better headroom, but I have no info on this. I do like the 68s more mid pushed sound - different to the 65 in a cool way.

[Little Jay]

For home use and more of the classic Fender sound: Princeton (IMHO.)

Benson would be overkill, both in volume as well as in size and weight.

My disclaimer would be that I've never played the Benson (but I do know it's forerunners - Hot Rod and Blues Deluxe - very well).

If you gig with it other than coffee house or drummer-less groups, I would go for the Benson. I find the Princton to lack sufficient clean head-room for gigs.

[christianm77]

For home use and more of the classic Fender sound: Princeton (IMHO.)

Benson would be overkill, both in volume as well as in size and weight.

My disclaimer would be that I've never played the Benson (but I do know it's forerunners - Hot Rod and Blues Deluxe - very well).

If you gig with it other than coffee house or drummer-less groups, I would go for the Benson. I find the Princton to lack sufficient clean head-room for gigs.

The benson would be a better choice perhaps if portability and size were not an issue.

I would certainly choose the gb amp if the prri 65 with a new speaker (total around £1080) is not an option.

[Keira Witherkay]

yes i agree the 68 princeton is designed for a more rock/blues with earlier breakup by a notch or two

i would go for a 65 princeton RI ...i play through one fairly often and it sounds fabulous (the '65)

and of course the size and weight make it a pretty convincing winner ...unless of course you gonna want to play real loud...but thats when princeton players just mic up the amp through PA

[boatheelmusic]

Does that amp use 6v6 originally? If so,how hot does the power transformer get with the 6L6?

No, 6L6 originally - not hot.

[christianm77]

Fwiw, this is how the modded Prri 65 performs in a loudish electric jazz band with drums. I would say that the cleans where I am comping are pretty clean. The drive in my solo is purely from a pedal.

[christianm77]

The sound for straightahead jazz (this with a flat eq. You can roll off more than this)

The speaker mod is very easy. You need to unscrew the speaker, slide out the contacts (no soldering required) take it out, screw the new one in, slide in the contacts and you are done. Takes a few minutes.

[medblues]

I have a differing opinion: George Benson HRDx has a power amp in (an effect loop) option which I use to warmly amplify acoustic guitars with piezo pickups and it sounds great. Since you are not leaving the house for gigs, the extra weight should not matter (and you are getting a 12" speaker chosen for headroom). I cannot speak to the size issue (how many inches extra ?).

Secondly, even if you don't use distortion, you can get more versatile voices from the second (overdrive) and third (more overdrive) channels that can still be clean.

There is also a George Benson HRDx thread.

Also, I tremendously enjoy your Youtube recordings.

[boatheelmusic]

Also that preamp out on the HRD can be used to drive an interface for digital recording.....

[citizenk74]

Medblues makes some good points. I have achieved some of the best living-room level Rudy-van-Gelder-at-the-desk-esque tones through the OD channel of my Traynor 2ch 50 watt tube amp, getting that luscious soft-knee comression on the attack, a smidge of the spring reverb, and of course the ever essential amp-in the corner placement to minimize standing waves.
That said, I'm still kicking myself for letting go of my original Silverface Princeton reverb.

[Rob MacKillop]

Thanks for all the comments, boys and girls. I appreciate them all, even if they often conflict Some nice playing on those videos too! There's no way I'll be playing with drums - just not my thing. Mainly home playing, though perhaps in duo with a singer or another guitarist, for small gigs.

I think I need to play them both myself...

[destinytot]

I'm taking the liberty of posting about other options - 'buy right or buy twice'.

Fender amps are really great, but I heard superior sound - a no-brainer - when I had an opportunity to compare several valve amps at my leisure during a visit to the workshop where my Sonntag is being serviced.

It was like being at Santa's workshop, but it's actually Catarroja, near Valencia (Spain)...

This amp has a tone that is free of what I'll call 'over-sanitisation':

Initially, the experience made me resent that I'm about to spend hard-earned money on a different amp (for practical reasons of versatility and - at 6.5kg - portability).

Instead, it's become my ideal - and I've since found it so easy to get close to that sound with my Polytone that I could kick myself for not having done so sooner.

(I haven't picked up my Sonntag yet, so last night I used my humble Ibanez AG95 on a special 'chamber jazz gig'; along with cello and flute, although we're just getting started, the combined sound on Johnny Mercer's Midnight Sun was everything I could have hoped for.)

But this ideal is perfectly attainable - it's local to me - so I'm having a more portable version made for me. I gig two or three times a week, but I'm done with schlepping heavy gear around. My custom valve amp will be for special gigs, and for pleasure at home - it sounds AMAZING at low volumes.

Vicente's professional work can speak for itself (and - as a highly-respected technician and custom pick-up & amp builder - it does), but I'll add that I have no affiliation beyond total confidence based on eight year's dependable service, and that other custom options exist.

[Max405]

Hey Guys,
I wish I could give my opinion on a comparison but I've never owned the Princeton. My George Benson is a really warm amp, also capable of Wembley stadium type of volume. I thought of selling mine because I wanted something lighter to carry in and out of the steady restaurant job I was doing at the time and I temporarily found that I didn't need it anymore after I resurrected my beloved Peavey Classic VTX212. After the old girl crapped out again, I took the GB off the market.
The amp is very warm. The reverb is typical Fender spring reverb, probably the best out there. The range of tones you get from the amp are broad and convincing both as a Jazz amp and a Rock amp. I didn't realize MedBlues's idea of using the power amp in feature to amplify an acoustic was viable, which is great and now might put my little Marshall acoustic amp in the launched position. Aside from the known issue with the volume control not waking up until you turn the "2" the Fender George Benson is a great amp.

Recommendation? IF you ever choose to put some of that gorgeous guitar playing skill back to use in front of audiences, Get yourself some casters and install them because the GB is no lightweight. Its a very unique and "smart" looking amp with its grey cover but I like the tweed better.

I hope that helped.
Joe D.

[destinytot]

Thanks, Rob. I was worried because my comment isn't directly relevant - but I won't be able to look you in the eye (via Skype) when I book some lessons with you(about which I'll PM during the holidays).

[Rob MacKillop]

Ha. You'd be welcome, but I'm not sure what I could teach you!

[destinytot]

Hey Guys,
I wish I could give my opinion on a comparison but I've never owned the Princeton. My George Benson is a really warm amp, also capable of Wembley stadium type of volume. I thought of selling mine because I wanted something lighter to carry in and out of the steady restaurant job I was doing at the time and I temporarily found that I didn't need it anymore after I resurrected my beloved Peavey Classic VTX212. After the old girl crapped out again, I took the GB off the market.
The amp is very warm. The reverb is typical Fender spring reverb, probably the best out there. The range of tones you get from the amp are broad and convincing both as a Jazz amp and a Rock amp. I didn't realize MedBlues's idea of using the power amp in feature to amplify an acoustic was viable, which is great and now might put my little Marshall acoustic amp in the launched position. Aside from the known issue with the volume control not waking up until you turn the "2" the Fender George Benson is a great amp.

Recommendation? IF you ever choose to put some of that gorgeous guitar playing skill back to use in front of audiences, Get yourself some casters and install them because the GB is no lightweight. Its a very unique and "smart" looking amp with its grey cover but I like the tweed better.

I hope that helped.
Joe D.

(I'm thinking of those whose lives Patrick has touched.) Bless you, man - for real.

[Wildcat]

I have a differing opinion: George Benson HRDx has a power amp in (an effect loop) option which I use to warmly amplify acoustic guitars with piezo pickups and it sounds great. .

So you run your electric acoustic guitar through the effects loop for warmth with piezo pickups?

[destinytot]

Ha. You'd be welcome, but I'm not sure what I could teach you!

I'll start writing a list - I'm afraid it's rather long.