-
HI Herbie,
Timo is just my wife's nickname for me. It's the Finnish version of Tim (as I guess you know), which is my real name- so no proper Finnish roots, just a borrowed name!
-
12-07-2015 07:12 PM
-
What a nice thread! Full of nice info and ideas, and civil. Will probably get a Weber 10 for my PRRI if it can get the "RvG" sound. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Ted
PS
Sorry for the hijack.
-
My Mission Amps 5E3 burned out a couple of caps and at least one 6V6when I fired it up a few weeks ago and had to go to the hospital. It was making some noises on return and the tech suggested first swapping in some different preamp tubes to see if that helped. It had JJ 12AY7, 12AX7, matched JJ 6V6s and a vintage RCA 5YGT; the preamp tubes and the rectifier came with the kit from Bruce Collins, the 6V6s are new.
So tonight I swapped in what I had on had- an EH 12AT7 into V1 and a vintage RCA 12AX7 that I borrowed from my 72 Pro Reverb. I've never played much with tubes for tone before. Wow, what a difference. With these preamp tubes the sound is much smoother and more late-50s Blue Note jazzy sounding; seems to be more clean headroom, too. I am not sure what the difference is between the 12AT7 and the 12AY7 (the latter is what is called for in the original circuit) but it makes me want to source some NOS RCA tubes to be in this baby permanently.
-
Glad to hear You got it running and even better!
Originally Posted by Cunamara
I am not sure but I'd think that the gain factor means more than NOS/not NOS. This is not the best preamp tube gain chart but gives You a bit hint about the phenomena:
Preamp Tube Gain Factors And Substitution Chart - 300guitars.com
I have a 12AY7 as a V1 AND a 12AT7 as a V2, gives more even more headroom.
-
You are right about this thread! Originally Posted by Teddyfm
But about getting a Weber in a Princeton to achieve RvG-sound: I have never heard that RvG had a Princeton too! And there is plethora of Weber speakers so it is impossible to comment that.
This thread is more about getting a jazz sound from Tweed Deluxe circuit, not from Princeton.
(I personally found my thrill with my Princeton with 12" baffle and WGS G12C/S. There might be a 10" equivalent too. But I also modded it to have middle pot, but it is a matter of another thread!)
-
I will give that a try, will need to get a 12ay7 though- my old one seems to have gone badly microphonic. Originally Posted by Herbie
-
All the speak about speakers is truth.
A week ago I got a brand new Weber 12A125A lightly doped straight from the factory. Took the 'quite good' WGS G12C off my 5e3, put the Weber in and – found My Sound! No even need for hours of breaking in, this sounds good already now. Amazing!
Very nice jazz sound even on low volumes with ES-175 w/ Lollar 50's Wind P90. I can get it sound a bit like Polytone but with tubes. That's what I have missed.
BTW, took some quality time with tweed, glue and shellac in my cellar and now I have a Tweedface 5e3! (Tweed amp in a tweeded but blackface-sized enclosure.)
-
The Weber 12A125 is an _excellent_ speaker. I have used in the 5e3 very successfully.
-
Funniest – or saddest – fact is that exactly a year ago I had an used Weber 12A125 in my possession. Then I searched a speaker for my SF Princeton Reverb. Weber was just too thin for it and I sold it. Originally Posted by Greentone
Maybe the thin-thing is the main reason why it suits for 5e3 so fine.
-
I had a Richter tweed dluxe clone once for about a week. After trying a few different speakers and tubes, I realised it just wasn't for me. I like the black- or brown face amps. One of the nicest tones I've ever heard came out of a brown Deluxe. I believe it had a JBL speaker in it.
-
Normal channel, input #2 ... you could use the bright channel, but I wouldn't. It sounds too "Fender-y" (It's the Telecaster channel for producing steel guitar-like sounds). Input #2 is the Gibson input--when you are using humbuckers.
Put the volume on 2 on the normal channel (maybe 3). Put the tone on 12 o-clock.
Oh, yeah. Make sure that V1 is a 12ay7 tube...NOT A 12axy! With a 12axy tube the amp is just a fuzz box. The circuit for the 5e3 calls for the "y" in the preamp position and a "x" in the phase inverter position.
-
I have the early octal preamp tubes in my Deluxe clone, but as others have said 12AY7 in V1.
Using a Weber 12A125A which is Weber's version of a 50's Jensen p12Q I believe.
You can try a 5V4 rectifier tube instead of the 5Y3. The amp becomes a little stiffer sounding and cleaner. Less sag as the tubes are getting more voltage. Ultimately I prefer the standard 5Y3.
I have mine in a Fender tweed Super sized cabinet which I think helps the overall sound of this amp. I experimented a bit with more of a closed back on the cabinet too.
Also the speaker baffle board on a Deluxe is quite thin and resonant (part of the amp's character). You can experiment with bracing it a little or even a thicker ply, it could help the amp hang in there a bit more.
I find for gigs I tend to keep the volume control fairly low and turn up the tone to say 9. Usually back the guitar volume off a touch too. The 5E3 tends to distort very early with hotter pickups or more input.
There is also the trick of using the unused channels volume almost fully up to create an almost scooped clean sound for the channel that you are plugged into.
I also have a switchable negative feedback loop added to my amp. Quite a simple mod that tightens things up a fair bit when you need more volume.Last edited by Burrellesque; 01-30-2017 at 05:18 AM.
-
Tweed amps can be dark, boomy or very mid range focussed, so they do match well with alnico speakers due to the sparkle they provide. Also, 6L6 and a GZ34 rectifier will be great help in giving you better cleans. A beefier output transformer would not hurt being that it is a clone. I'd try a pro or bandmaster type with a muti-tap option so in case you want to go for other than a 4 ohm speaker.
-
Resurrecting an old thread. To me, tweeds need to be played with other instruments. When you get some cancelation going, the harsh tone you hear in your living room turns into a fat clean sound.
-
About one year later:
– I have changed to use input 2, the Gibson input.
– Bright channel 2-3, Tone 2-3, Normal channel 0, raised if the room needs bass.
– V1 12AY7, as it should be, but V2 is now 5751. More good sound before later breakup.
– The Weber 12A125A started to sound annoying upper mid spike. Weird. Sold it. Tried Emi Red White And Blue and Jensen Tornado, which were OK, but... only OK. Then I found OK-priced used Weber 12A150, which is now perfect. With both ES175 for jazz and with my Les Paul's for rock.
I am very happy with this primitive but flexible and beautifully sounding amp! Recommended!
-
Primitive and flexible are both accurate descriptors. And if you haven't played with tweaking it enough, try:
-rolling the volume knob of the channel you aren't using up to 10 or so and listening to what that does to the sound of the channel you are using- there are some interesting effects there as you get closer to 12.
-jumpering the channels-mif you are plugged into normal #2, put a short cable between normal #1 and either bright #1 or #2. You can jumper from whichever input you aren't using in one channel to either input in the other channel. There are 8 possibilities and they all sound a bit different. You can balance the volume of the two channels and sometimes some extra clean volume.
There are web pages all over on all the tricks you can do with a 5E3.
-
I was reading a recent thread that refers to this amp and realised I know very little about them. Originally Posted by Timo
Stumbled upon this old thread and am fascinated by the interaction between the two channels' controls.
Is that common?
-
The 5E3 Tweed Deluxe is the quintessential guitar amp for Jazz (or any other style of music). Originally Posted by garybaldy
The way the channels interact is unique to this amp afaik. (The volume knob of the unused channel affects the tone of the channel you're plugged into, even without a jumper cable). The 4 inputs are very useful for many things, but first and foremost the amp got wonderful cleans and wonderful natural OD regardless of channel interaction. Not possible to get a bad tone from this amp, not possible.
-
Having only just scratched the surface regarding this amp and having read your post, it seems, though, a lot of people have difficulty with it for jazz. Thanks Originally Posted by JCat
-
There are many Jazz tones, I suppose you could screw up also with a Tweed Deluxe (like plugging the wrong PU in the wrong Input, use modern guitar electronics, use a brit rock speaker, plug a massive pedalboard in front, play too loud or something else not clever). Then there's the blackface tone (scooped out mids) that I find problematic at times, fortunately the Tweed Deluxe is free from it. Originally Posted by garybaldy
Reverb is nice, so you'll probably like a reverb pedal (there's more than one way to connect it). Always play before you buy. Good luck.
-
Tweed Deluxes have a great tone for jazz or any other style short of metal, but they are low power and relatively low headroom. Originally Posted by garybaldy
When I had one, I never would have considered it to be loud enough for a jazz gig. I would bring my Deluxe Reverb instead.
Great for home use however.
-
I've been using mine for jazz gigs for at least 10 years and maybe 15. It works great for jazz with my Teles, Strat, GB10, archtop with floater and ES-175; with the volume on 3 at most, it's loud enough that I don't usually turn the volume on the guitar up past 5 or 6. However, I'm not playing gigs in a 1000 seat hall that I'm trying to fill with sound, I'm playing in coffee shops and small venues. It'll balance readily with horns, piano and drums before it gets too much breakup.
FWIW I have a Cannabis Rex speaker in it, which is pretty efficient. That helps with headroom.
Neil Young might beg to differ with you about its application for metal; he's got a heavier sound than almost all metal bands manage to get.
-
Fair point, venue and target output volume is the dimensioning criteria for amp power. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
The 5E3 got about 15 W of clean tube power. Many people think that's overkill for home use (depending on what you want to do with it).
It could easily be gigged clean in a laid back club setting (guitar, drums, bass, 1-2 horns) using an appropriate guitar and speaker.
But when going loud like full big band, the 5E3 is going to break up and you would need a bigger amp.
(the notion that one can have breakup on bedroom volume is a myth originating from Youtube and similar virtual media. It doesn't work like that in real life.)
-
Exactly my experience. Louder gigs (outside of the big band example) usually come with a PA. Originally Posted by JCat
-
I use the bright channel (low input) and I can reduce bass turning the normal channel volume up. Originally Posted by JCat
I am not sure how typical this is. I have changed almost all the capacitors to lower ones to get the lows tighter.
Reply With Quote
pauln program
Today, 04:14 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading